scam alert: fake psa cards from ebay seller "cardregistry"

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

everyone was worried about privacy concerns of doing my suggestion but you can see it saved you and again even if 40% of the real owners chose to be on a 'owner registry' ...thats 40% more fake mantles etc that can be discovered fast...

seriously, dude?

i've never even read your post about whatever babble you decided to go on about.

in fact, i usually overlook anything you actually post.

(that's why i edited and put "NM" when i realized it was you looking for a 54 aaron 7 in your wtb thread)

but please do not try and take any credit that you saved me in any type of fashion.

i stick to my self set protocols and this card woulda been sent in for a reholder anyways.

i'm also thoroughly educated on my return parameters/time frames and the legalities involved to cover my own a$$.

i got this down to a science.

feel free to re-read the thread, but don't try to take any credit for some nonsense babble you posted god knows when.

shoo fly.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

seriously, dude?

i've never even read your post about whatever babble you decided to go on about.

in fact, i usually overlook anything you actually post.

(that's why i edited and put "NM" when i realized it was you looking for a 54 aaron 7 in your wtb thread)

but please do not try and take any credit that you saved me in any type of fashion.

i stick to my self set protocols and this card woulda been sent in for a reholder anyways.

i'm also thoroughly educated on my return parameters/time frames and the legalities involved to cover my own a$$.

i got this down to a science.

feel free to re-read the thread, but don't try to take any credit for some nonsense babble you posted god knows when.

shoo fly.

seriously dude? I not sure anyone will agree with the point of yours post...i didnt say anything against you yet you posted some wierd stuff...not sure what you mean about the Aaron as well....and also not sure what you mean that it doesn't matter when someone pointed out something..there was a past thread or two..one of them was a discussoin with Peter Spieth actually..

i was simply showing how it worked out for you and that a system could help could help the card community a large. I get that you are the master yet you still had the need to post something there....perhaps you were trying to do some good to the community..i not see what the problem is with my suggestion with was an attempt to help the card community which I made long ago and i just noted that it appeared to work for you.......no biggie go on with your attacking non-sense...... im sure you have lots of RC Aarons to sell now...maybe you should of continued to overlook my posts and done us both a favor....of course if you respond that thats one more post you arent overlooking which would than appear you havent overlooked squat....but please overlook in future..thanks

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i not see what the problem is with my suggestion with was an attempt to help the card community which I made long ago

exactly.

i am no master. there is always more room to learn.

but to answer what i think was an attempt at a question,

my sole reason to post this was to notify others of a serious and recent issue.

this otherwise flawless seller had some serious "cardboard" "consigned" which ultimately is fake and was used to run a $150K scheme in a matter of a month.

if this happened to someone else, i certainly would appreciate a heads up as well. i think anybody would.

in fact, i'd feel worse if i didn't post anything about it actually.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

exactly.

i am no master. there is always more room to learn.

but to answer what i think was an attempt at a question,

my sole reason to post this was to notify others of a serious and recent issue.

this otherwise flawless seller had some serious "cardboard" "consigned" which ultimately is fake and was used to run a $150K scheme in a matter of a month.

if this happened to someone else, i certainly would appreciate a heads up as well. i think anybody would.

in fact, i'd feel worse if i didn't post anything about it actually.

right and my idea would help the card community..the way you found out about the fake would be the exact same way others could be helped by my idea as it just happened in practice with you but right now its very limited....just putting it out there so others can be helped...

[CW]

Interesting info, Bob. Thanks.

[Jobu]

cardregistry (2419)

Last 12 months:

1,032 positive
0 neutral
0 negative

I don't post this to challenge your story, I believe you, I am just baffled that this seller doesn't have any negative feedback.

[pokerplyr80]

Did PSA crack the card of the holder before they sent it back?

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Did PSA crack the card of the holder before they sent it back?

yep.

cracked it, confiscated the holder and flip.

had them send the card to him.

[pokerplyr80]

Scary stuff. Makes you wonder how many others are floating around in collections, not just the 150k in cards from this guy.

So was the card real, just not quite a 9?

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Scary stuff. Makes you wonder how many others are floating around in collections, not just the 150k in cards from this guy.

So was the card real, just not quite a 9?

card was 100% real. just "altered".

all they would give me.

take a solid 7, doctor her up a lil bit.

slip her into a very nicely tampered psa holder

insert a fake* flip

find a somewhat reliable ebay seller to take the consignment

and make $4K.


* the flip looked scary good as well. font was spot on. i did the flashlight test (no overlabel) and redlaser'd the barcode and it spit out the right cert number as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Somewhere south of the border, someone is laughing his butt off, all the way to the bank.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

card was 100% real. just "altered".

all they would give me.

take a solid 7, doctor her up a lil bit.

slip her into a very nicely tampered psa holder

insert a fake* flip

find a somewhat reliable ebay seller to take the consignment

and make $4K.



* the flip looked scary good as well. font was spot on. i did the flashlight test (no overlabel) and redlaser'd the barcode and it spit out the right cert number as well.

Wow!! And we all thought that autographs were the worst part of the collecting hobby

[begsu1013]

i checked him out previous to the purchase as well.

which is why i believe him when he said the cards were "consignments" after the fact.

this was purchased on jan 7.

but between the time that i actually got the card.

attempted to add the card to the registry.

wait the 3 days before i can request it be removed via email w/ a scan to psa.

wait their 2 days process to do the removal

find out that there is an issue from psa

converse back and forth

wait for a pre-paid label from them

mail the thing.

wait for it to get logged. (logged in feb 9th btw)

usually only takes 5 biz days to get things like this cleared up,

so this one musta been good bc it took close to 15 biz days and several wtf phone calls.

and just got the results this thurs...


throw all of the above in w/ a couple of holidays and we are unfortunately around 45 days to get a verifiable answer. i am probably ultimately the first to catch him/them on this round of fakes.

also, once i notified ebay that it was a fake i was unable to leave any feedback whatsoever.

still in disbelief about ebays stance on this and that they would remove the listing all together and not allow me to leave feedback.

[ashes13]

The color in the Russell rookie is way off

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-TOPPS-B...cAAOSwA4dWIT9r

ditto with a bunch of others. like the 57 Cousy--

The cards look strange, but perhaps his scanner is just changing the colors significantly. Scanner could be altering the image.
Also a number of other high end cards in PSA holders just look off, but perhaps its the scans.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bob I am confused because in your first post you said it was a "typical resealment job" but now you are saying how good a job it was.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bob I am confused because in your first post you said it was a "typical resealment job" but now you are saying how good a job it was.

per the letter.

edit: but when asked where on the holder the resealment took place, i got "we cant tell you that". so that got me thinking about the reholder aspect and slipping one past the goalie.

[KingFisk]

Interesting, as I believe there is an Anthony Muia in Brooklyn who runs a successful tour business (Slice of Brooklyn) that has been on TV and has a great reputation up in these parts. Not sure if this has any relevance, just throwing it out there.

[begsu1013]

here are some full scans...

[SyrNy1960]

I was following this pretty well, but now am confused. Possible the holder wasn't tampered with?

[1952boyntoncollector]

still no half grade fakes yet..

[BobC]

Has it been definitively determined that these cards are being put into opened and resealed holders or, as another poster suggested, is it possible that someone has a way to simply recreate PSA's holders and just prepare fake flips to go in them? I've heard of another recent incident where the PSA 10 Ricky Henderson rookie card in the Heritage auction that just ended this past weekend was also mysteriously in the SCP auction that had ended a couple weeks earlier. The card in the SCP auction got pulled about two hours before that auction ended when someone pointed out to them that Heritage was listing the exact same card with the exact same certification number. I also heard the person who consigned the card to SCP had recently gotten it from someone in California (Surprise! Surprise!) within the last 4 - 5 months. From what I understand, neither the consigner nor the auction house could detect anything wrong or off with the PSA holder and flip so, it may not be a matter of someone figuring out how to break them open and reseal them. It very well could be that someone has taken the time and made the effort to duplicate the PSA holders. It really wouldn't be that hard to do.

I saw the Henderson rookie ended up selling for $38,240 in the Heritage auction while I heard the supposed bad/fake one in the SCP auction was in the $28K range just before it got pulled. So there is definitely enough money and incentive for these people to do this. What I'd be worried about is that these people don't use fakes cards either but, just slightly lesser grade cards to put in these fake holders/flips. My understanding is you can get a PSA 8 or 9 Henderson rookie for maybe a few hundred bucks while a PSA 10 pulls in $30-$40K. So if these people can duplicate the holders and flips, and put real cards of fairly high grades into them where the naked eye has trouble distinguishing an "8" or "9" from a "10", that is truly scary. And lord knows how many bad cards may already be circulating out there because of this.

And here's how it could get even worse. If I were doing something like this, I would probably go out and get a PSA 10 card of one of these skyrocketing rookies, and then go ahead and find the exact same card in say a PSA 8 or 8.5, maybe even a 9, depending on the cost. I'd then create a fake flip and put the lower graded card in a new holder showing it as a PSA 10, with the same cert number as the actual PSA 10 I also had. I'd then carefully crack out the real PSA 10 card and resubmit it as a fresh, new card and have PSA holster it in a brand new holder with a brand new unique cert number so that now I'd have two PSA 10's of the same card. This way you'd never have to worry about there being two PSA 10 cards out there with the exact same cert number either. Now you could do damage to the real PSA 10 card when cracking it out and destroy its value but, you'd still have the fake PSA 10 and, you wouldn't have to be successful 100% of the time you did this for it to be extremely profitable. And think about it, if the card was already graded as a PSA 10, why would someone ever bother to take it back to PSA? No one would question it.

BobC

[Peter_Spaeth]

"My understanding is you can get a PSA 8 or 9 Henderson rookie for maybe a few hundred bucks while a PSA 10 pulls in $30-$40K. So if these people can duplicate the holders and flips, and put real cards of fairly high grades into them where the naked eye has trouble distinguishing an "8" or "9" from a "10", that is truly scary. And lord knows how many bad cards may already be circulating out there because of this."

This. People are buying flips, not cards, and that is what is creating the massive incentive to commit fraud.

[BobC]

Here, here, Peter. That is exactly why I for one am happy to buy mostly raw, mid to low grade pre-war cards and stay away from what I think is a ridiculous run up in ultra high-grade cards.

BobC

[begsu1013]

curious to if it was this henderson?

and if it was, then i know first hand that the gentlemen knew it was fake as he tried to dupe it on me about 2 years ago. still have the email conversations for this very reason.

his new/changed ebay handle is thepostgameshowdotnet and he seems to change it every 6 months or so.

i think he was a very new collector and threw a bunch of money at cards that he thought were great and didn't know much about (or qualifiers).

mainly purchasing a bunch 9oc stuff but paying straight 9 money. and then trying to resell at even higher 9 prices...

I even emailed him this exact picture and he didn't even seem to think it was odd that there were 2 of the same cards/certs, etc.

then naturally takes offense that I even suggest he's bought a fake card.

similar to cardregistry's initial response.

but of course cardregistry didn't try to resell years later knowing it was fake.

even joe o sent him an email requesting him to send the card in...he wouldn't do it.

[cubman1941]

I haven't read all the posts so maybe this has been covered. I looked at "cardregistry"'s feedback and no negatives. But I found it interesting that repeat buyers like small traditions-auctions, probstein123, pwcc_auctions and 4-sharp-corners are listed a few times. This means the fake cards could be almost anyplace by now as these guys re-sell and those buyers will never know.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by BobC

Has it been definitively determined that these cards are being put into opened and resealed holders or, as another poster suggested, is it possible that someone has a way to simply recreate PSA's holders and just prepare fake flips to go in them? I've heard of another recent incident where the PSA 10 Ricky Henderson rookie card in the Heritage auction that just ended this past weekend was also mysteriously in the SCP auction that had ended a couple weeks earlier. The card in the SCP auction got pulled about two hours before that auction ended when someone pointed out to them that Heritage was listing the exact same card with the exact same certification number. I also heard the person who consigned the card to SCP had recently gotten it from someone in California (Surprise! Surprise!) within the last 4 - 5 months. From what I understand, neither the consigner nor the auction house could detect anything wrong or off with the PSA holder and flip so, it may not be a matter of someone figuring out how to break them open and reseal them. It very well could be that someone has taken the time and made the effort to duplicate the PSA holders. It really wouldn't be that hard to do.

I saw the Henderson rookie ended up selling for $38,240 in the Heritage auction while I heard the supposed bad/fake one in the SCP auction was in the $28K range just before it got pulled. So there is definitely enough money and incentive for these people to do this. What I'd be worried about is that these people don't use fakes cards either but, just slightly lesser grade cards to put in these fake holders/flips. My understanding is you can get a PSA 8 or 9 Henderson rookie for maybe a few hundred bucks while a PSA 10 pulls in $30-$40K. So if these people can duplicate the holders and flips, and put real cards of fairly high grades into them where the naked eye has trouble distinguishing an "8" or "9" from a "10", that is truly scary. And lord knows how many bad cards may already be circulating out there because of this.

And here's how it could get even worse. If I were doing something like this, I would probably go out and get a PSA 10 card of one of these skyrocketing rookies, and then go ahead and find the exact same card in say a PSA 8 or 8.5, maybe even a 9, depending on the cost. I'd then create a fake flip and put the lower graded card in a new holder showing it as a PSA 10, with the same cert number as the actual PSA 10 I also had. I'd then carefully crack out the real PSA 10 card and resubmit it as a fresh, new card and have PSA holster it in a brand new holder with a brand new unique cert number so that now I'd have two PSA 10's of the same card. This way you'd never have to worry about there being two PSA 10 cards out there with the exact same cert number either. Now you could do damage to the real PSA 10 card when cracking it out and destroy its value but, you'd still have the fake PSA 10 and, you wouldn't have to be successful 100% of the time you did this for it to be extremely profitable. And think about it, if the card was already graded as a PSA 10, why would someone ever bother to take it back to PSA? No one would question it.

BobC

You kind of lost me on the third paragraph. It wouldn't make sense financially to buy a Henderson PSA 10, crack it out and resubmit it again just so there weren't two cards with the same cert number. The chances of the same card coming back a 10 the second time are probably 1/100. It wouldnt be worth the risk. Besides, these scammers dont care if there are 2 or more of the same cards out there with the same cert number.

[begsu1013]

correct.


no way they are popping a ten and resubbing.



in fact, they never even had a ten to begin with or even a henderson/montana


originally they'd simply print up a fake flip, jimmy the corner of a slab and insert the fake flip as seen here:


montana flip over a chip lang...