1869 Wesleyan Team Photo

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Posted By: dstudeba

Hi,

I have an incredibly small amount of knowledge when it comes to photos. I saw this photo just sold on eBay for $1825. I was interested in it because I went to Wesleyan, and was wondering what was driving the price? Is it the type of picture, or that it is so close to the first recorded college games, or what? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Which Wesleyan is this?

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Posted By: dstudeba

I assumed Wesleyan (CT) and not Ohio-Wesleyan or any of the other multitudes.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

There is a Nebraska Wesleyan in Lincoln, but I'm not so sure it was around in the 1860s.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Wesleyan (CT) played its first game in 1865 if I recall correctly.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I was watching this lot too. CdV's of teams from this era have various criteria that collectors place on them. First, images from the 1860's sell for more than those from the 1870's. Second, most CdV's are unidentifiable, but this one was. It very well could have been won by an alumnus of the school.

But the single factor that drives the price of these images (assuming it is not a famous team or contains a famous player) is the aesthetics of the image. And this one had it all: strong photo quality, great composition, nice uniforms, and equipment was visible. It was an exceptionally nice looking team photograph.

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Posted By: Brock G.

It obviously can't be him because he was dead in 1869 but the guy in the back, third from the left, looks just like John Wilkes Booth. Its not important but it caught my eye right away.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Brock- although you said what you said in jest, you touched on a very important point regarding photo identification: there are so many people who look something like a famous person, or a famous ballplayer. And that's why I am almost always skeptical of collectors who think they made an amazing discovery, and found such and such Hall of Famer as a seventeen year old playing for an unknown town team.

Almost every time they are wrong.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Thanks a lot for the information Barry, I appreciate it.

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Posted By: Gary Passamonte

I have this CdV identified as the 1868 Agallians of Wesleyan University in Middletown,CT. It is pictured on pg. 22 in Mark Rucker's book, "Base Ball Cartes." I obtained it directly from Mark years ago. There is no similarity in uniforms and very little, if any, in team personnel. I'm wondering if one of these images is misidentified.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Good observation Gary.

The one on ebay is identified solely on the basis of a pencil notation on the back. That is hardly documentation.

The Agallion CdV has been identified by the "A" on the uniform. According to Mark's book, there is no photographer's imprint on the back. So I don't know how he came to that conclusion unless he had other identified images to compare it to.

But what both images undeniably have is they look great. They are beautifully composed late 1860's photographs. That's why I say without absolute proof of a specific team or player, value them for their aesthetics.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I would say that since there are more than one Wesleyan colleges or universities that it could be one of any of them. I doubt someone would write 'Wesleyan' on the reverse if they weren't sure of who it was...just too bad that they didn't go further in identifying the photo.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- that's a subject I've actually given quite a bit of thought to. I think it is in fact possible that somebody at any point in time could erroneously identify a photograph. And I am more suspect of pencil notations than I am of period ink.

The identification on this one may be fine, but people do make mistakes. And those mistakes can remain so for a hundred years... It's just the skeptic in me.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I completely agree Barry, but I am more inclined to believe that on a photo like this if someone wrote "Wesleyan" then it is likely to be Wesleyan...now if they wrote "Cincinnati" or "Boston" on there I'd be more leery of it. Now that doesn't mean that it is Wesleyan...just that I think odds are it probably is.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree with the term "likely."