New charges of sports memorabilia and art fraud

[jayshum]

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...mgq-story.html

[hcv123]

Exton PA - sounds like Hunt Auctions?

More importantly, I wonder who the authenticator was!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Man, there's a whole world of sports CARD fraud out there, I hope some day we see THOSE indictments. I note that the crimes here at least the ones discussed were 2016 and 3017, and actually one traced back to 2005 (yikes), so it took some time for this to play out.

[mrreality68]

the news is scary but sadly I am sure there are others going on as we speak. and new attempts coming soon.
Especially as the values continue to grow the money potential for these people is to much to resist.
Power of this forum and knowledge will hopefully help prevent some of it or at least prevent some people from getting burned.

[chriskim]

https://rehs.com/eng/2020/07/henkel-hoax/

HENKEL HOAX
July 10, 2020
An alleged forgery ring is unraveling after authorities garnered enough evidence to obtain a search warrant for artist Donald “D.B” Henkel’s property in Traverse City, Michigan. According to reports, the FBI began investigating the artist after learning he was involved in the sale of fake works said to be by notable 20th Century American artist to U.S. galleries, collectors, and museums. Conservators confirmed that materials used in these “rediscovered” works did not exist during the period in which they were supposedly created.
These forgers did not only use their talents in the art world, but ventured in the world of sports memorabilia. According to one article:
Since 2015, two accused co-conspirators have sold a purported Babe Ruth bat for $60,000 and a Lou Gehrig bat for $120,000, according to the FBI agent. Most of the money was sent to Henkel and another person.
The FBI affidavit does not say the bat was counterfeit.
The timing of the Gehrig bat auction and price tag appears to match one sold by Hunt Auctions of Pennsylvania. According to the listing, the Gehrig bat belonged to a descendant of a bat boy who had met the New York Yankees legend.
With that, 30 FBI agents raided the home, seizing a number of undisclosed items. No arrests have been made… yet.
Source: In north Michigan woods, feds raid an alleged upscale art forgery factory
Source: FBI Raids Alleged Art Forgery Ring in Michigan Woods

[Snapolit1]

Really happy I never went heavy into autographed stuff. Just seemed way to sketchy. I don't care who your authenticator is, the science is shaky if non-existent, and some of the people doing it are sketchy as hell.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Really happy I never went heavy into autographed stuff. Just seemed way to sketchy. I don't care who your authenticator is, the science is shaky if non-existent, and some of the people doing it are sketchy as hell.

I fear for the day, if it ever comes, that people are somehow able to make fakes of iconic cards, using old cardboard stock or the likes.

I've purchased a few autographs. Nothing too significant, price wise, but it's certainly a dangerous game.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Really happy I never went heavy into autographed stuff. Just seemed way to sketchy. I don't care who your authenticator is, the science is shaky if non-existent, and some of the people doing it are sketchy as hell.

The very first catalog I saw after I started collecting again as an adult had multiple beautiful single signed Ruth balls, as did virtually every catalog after that. I'm like, I don't KNOW, but this just doesn't feel right.

Of course cards aren't exactly a clean hobby segment either.

[philo98]

Originally Posted by Seven

I fear for the day, if it ever comes, that people are somehow able to make fakes of iconic cards, using old cardboard stock or the likes.

I've purchased a few autographs. Nothing too significant, price wise, but it's certainly a dangerous game.

That day is soon on the horizon. I have lived for decades in China and other parts of Asia and have seen it all on fakes and how good the technology is becoming. There are really bad fakes in Asia and really really good ones, and everywhere in between. A region that fakes cars, lettuce, eggs, contact lens cleaner, clothes, shoes, toothpaste and on and on and on, will also fake trading cards. In fact, its already started.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Man, there's a whole world of sports CARD fraud out there, I hope some day we see THOSE indictments. I note that the crimes here at least the ones discussed were 2016 and 3017, and actually one traced back to 2005 (yikes), so it took some time for this to play out.

I have said this on the memorabilia side and people have called me crazy, but I have absolutely no doubt that after some # of months of practice I could sign a Babe Ruth ball that would pass in the hobby. The guy's name is 8 freakin' letters. There a few tell tale flourishes, but we are not talking counterfeiting one of the great Mormom Church historical documents. Which of course was done, repeatedly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I have said this on the memorabilia side and people have called me crazy, but I have absolutely no doubt that after some # of months of practice I could sign a Babe Ruth ball that would pass in the hobby. The guy's name is 8 freakin' letters. There a few tell tale flourishes, but we are not talking counterfeiting one of the great Mormom Church historical documents. Which of course was done, repeatedly.

Who's authenticating these autographs? In many cases, a guy who allegedly authenticated a facsimile Churchill signature and at a deposition did not know if Ruth signed with his left or right hand. Count me a skeptic.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who's authenticating these autographs? In many cases, a guy who allegedly authenticated a facsimile Churchill signature and at a deposition did not know if Ruth signed with his left or right hand. Count me a skeptic.

What is the typical practice for authenticating a signed baseball? Is it simply someone looking and comparing the handwriting to a known example, or is there more to it than that?

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who's authenticating these autographs? In many cases, a guy who allegedly authenticated a facsimile Churchill signature and at a deposition did not know if Ruth signed with his left or right hand. Count me a skeptic.

Honestly while I tend to trust a JSA certification, even they get it wrong at times. I'd be more trusting of the opinion of some of the experienced autograph collectors here, or a couple that I know on Facebook.

[MattyC]

There are going to be fraudulent pieces in all sectors of all hobbies where money circulates. One has to get deeply educated, cultivate a circle of really knowledgable fellow hobbyists who can offer helpful opinions on targeted pieces, and always seek quality provenance where it can be found.

Doctored cards remain a huge issue, for those who care beyond the sticker, and it is largely on the collector/hobbyist to perform his due diligence in parsing the good stuff from the bad.

I for one remain comfortable with bats, cards, signed stuff, all of it— if I’ve done all my homework and feel comfortable. Homework mitigates fear and though some fear can be helpful and an impetus for doing homework, fear can also paralyze a collector when that need not be the case.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

What is the typical practice for authenticating a signed baseball? Is it simply someone looking and comparing the handwriting to a known example, or is there more to it than that?

I’d like to know too. Is there a way to date the ink?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I’d like to know too. Is there a way to date the ink?

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure is simply a visual examination against known exemplars. No carbon 14 testing or any high falutin' science like that.

[Butch7999]

Originally Posted by chriskim

https://rehs.com/eng/2020/07/henkel-hoax/

HENKEL HOAX
July 10, 2020
An alleged forgery ring is unraveling after authorities garnered enough evidence to obtain a search warrant
for artist Donald “D.B” Henkel’s property in Traverse City, Michigan. According to reports, the FBI began
investigating the artist after learning he was involved in the sale of fake works ...
These forgers did not only use their talents in the art world, but ventured in the world of sports memorabilia. ...
Source: In north Michigan woods, feds raid an alleged upscale art forgery factory
Source: FBI Raids Alleged Art Forgery Ring in Michigan Woods

Anyone have any idea if the person named is related to or affiliated with artist / author / game designer
Donald G Henkel? He created and produced the tabletop game Call Pitch Baseball in 1974 out of his location
in Trenton Michigan (south of Detroit, opposite corner of the state from Traverse City).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/artsyt/2672701310

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure is simply a visual examination against known exemplars. No carbon 14 testing or any high falutin' science like that.

I'm sure that all the opinion sellers exert the minimum amount of effort that gets them paid

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Seven

I fear for the day, if it ever comes, that people are somehow able to make fakes of iconic cards, using old cardboard stock or the likes.

I've purchased a few autographs. Nothing too significant, price wise, but it's certainly a dangerous game.

This has already been going on for decades.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This has already been going on for decades.

and sadly will keep going on for decades more

[Seven]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This has already been going on for decades.

Let me make a clarification then to my original post, we can still tell with a certain degree what cards are real and what are fake. When the day comes that the real and the fake are indistinguishable, then we have a problem.

[rjackson44]

Old news look at coaches corner this will never end never

[Seven]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

Old news look at coaches corner this will never end never

As long as there's a market for it, I agree. There are very few people left on this earth, that saw Babe Ruth play, yet people still want to collect his signature. A smattering of prewar stars fit this bill, yet people still want their signatures. And unfortunately, when crooks see the opportunity to make a quick buck, they're going to do it.

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by Seven

As long as there's a market for it, I agree. There are very few people left on this earth, that saw Babe Ruth play, yet people still want to collect his signature. A smattering of prewar stars fit this bill, yet people still want their signatures. And unfortunately, when crooks see the opportunity to make a quick buck, they're going to do it.

Thank you James agreed

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Seven

Let me make a clarification then to my original post, we can still tell with a certain degree what cards are real and what are fake. When the day comes that the real and the fake are indistinguishable, then we have a problem.

Or not...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sadly I agree with Scott. As I posted in another thread, people will just bury their heads in the flip, do cognitive dissonance, and go right on buying.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I’d like to know too. Is there a way to date the ink?

Yes you can as different chemicals were used back when vs today, How it can be done without damaging a piece I don't know.

May be one of those high faluting dating machines used to date artifacts...

[hawaiian bam bam]

I’m glad I started focusing on collecting topps factory certified autos instead of signed cards authenticated by PSA, JSA etc. (I still have some in my collection) but for the most part I try to go with the topps factory certified autos first. I know those can be faked too but I think the topps factory certified autos have more of a Chance of being authentic be TPA slabbed autos

[HexsHeroes]

Originally Posted by hawaiian bam bam

I’m glad I started focusing on collecting topps factory certified autos instead of signed cards authenticated by PSA, JSA etc. (I still have some in my collection) but for the most part I try to go with the topps factory certified autos first. I know those can be faked too but I think the topps factory certified autos have more of a Chance of being authentic be TPA slabbed autos

But Al, just curious, isn't Topps using the same autograph market sources for the autographs they use in their certified autograph cards as collectors such as myself ? Not sure how that protects Topps (and therefore you) any more than buying either with or without TPA LOA from the marketplace. Or am I missing something in how Topps sources authentic autographs ?

[HexsHeroes]

.

It's certainly no guarantee that a bad autograph (intentional forgery, secretarial, mistaken identity, etc.) does not slip through, but something veteran autograph dealer Kevin Keating shared in a SCD article several decades ago struck home to a young collector (me). Identify who the "good guys" are in the vintage autograph market and concentrate your purchases from them. Good guys meaning integrity, expertise, knowledge, and willingness to stand behind the items they sell. Unfortunately, many of those "good guys" have retired or moved on to other parts of the autograph business. Certainly more difficult identifying who the good guys are now. And perhaps far fewer of them.