Roy hallady r.i.p

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

The peripherals are also very good for Pettite he was top 6 in Cy young 5 times....7 for Roy

plus yes we know its all about opportunity for the playoffs but you cant punish someone for doing well and the playoff performances for pettite are a big plus when compared to Roy.....we know pettite did well with his opportunities.but we dont know about roy.......it is what it is...

and wins matter.until you show me a 300 game winner that doesnt make the hall..yes andy doesnt have 300 wins..he has about 275 when you combine playoff and regular season but just saying wins matter.

Andy Pettitte being better than Roy Halladay is the most laughable thing I've read in a while.

What is so special about Andy's playoff performance? That he had 10 x's the opportunity that Roy had in the Playoffs? His career winning %, and era are almost identical to his career numbers. So his playoff performance was par for the course but not HOF worthy.

Let's not forget another small little factoid about Andy Pettitte he's an admitted cheater. Roy's career ended at a relatively young age. If he got on a solid HGH regime and played 3-4 more years he could have had another 60 wins added to his resume.

In my opinion Roy is not a sure fire first ballot hall of famer. I think he is a borderline guy. He doesn't have accumulated stats that blow people away 300 wins, 3000 k's, etc. But he at times was the most dominant pitcher in baseball. Something that can't be said about Andy Pettitte or some of the other guys mentioned above.

[1952boyntoncollector]

...duplicate...imagine a witty comment..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Andy Pettitte being better than Roy Halladay is the most laughable thing I've read in a while.

What is so special about Andy's playoff performance? That he had 10 x's the opportunity that Roy had in the Playoffs? His career winning %, and era are almost identical to his career numbers. So his playoff performance was par for the course but not HOF worthy.

Let's not forget another small little factoid about Andy Pettitte he's an admitted cheater. Roy's career ended at a relatively young age. If he got on a solid HGH regime and played 3-4 more years he could have had another 60 wins added to his resume.

In my opinion Roy is not a sure fire first ballot hall of famer. I think he is a borderline guy. He doesn't have accumulated stats that blow people away 300 wins, 3000 k's, etc. But he at times was the most dominant pitcher in baseball. Something that can't be said about Andy Pettitte or some of the other guys mentioned above.

You can argue but its not laughable.

The cheating thing doesnt really matter anymore especially with pitchers. Just a few more years and we will see guys with a much worse 'cheating' connotation be in the hall.

At times being the most dominated pitcher isnt enough. How is 1 season.? is that enough..how about 2? Its not like he had 6 seasons. Many times the Cy young award is a toss up between a few guys. Petitte was top 6 in the Cy young 5 times and Roy 7 times.

Plus again, you cant penalize a guy from doing well in the post season. Not having chance still hurts you. Thats life. There are great players that never got a chance to do a lot of things, and we dont give them awards either.

If you have a guy that did do something versus a guy that never had a chance, guess what the guy that did do something gets the edge..

the last year petitte pitched he was an all star...he could of continued to pitch if he wanted too and he could of gotten to 300 wins who know...but he never got the opportunity so petitte doesnt get the credit for that. Just like Roy doesnt get any credit for the playoffs since he didnt have the opportunities..

Pettite has the most post season wins in baseball history....roy worst seasons (era over 10 in 13 starts sent down to minors) were much worse than Andys worse seasons...if you want to count the best of the best seasons you need to count the worst of the worse seasons..

Its far from laughable to compare the two

[Snapolit1]

Now they've released footage which seems to show him doing very stupid things with his plane. Damm. Very sad. Clearly a great family man who adored his kids. Should have taken up a safer hobby.

[Shoeless Moe]

What an idiot.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

What an idiot.

If the video is accurate and unaltered then first ballot. Now his wife and children have to suffer for his arrogance.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

If the video is accurate and unaltered then first ballot. Now his wife and children have to suffer for his arrogance.

Arrogance? Come on. How many times have you gone faster than you should in your car? People who enjoy their hobbies will push their hobbies to extremes. His hobby was flying a plane, other people drive fast cars, others skydive.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by packs

Arrogance? Come on. How many times have you gone faster than you should in your car? People who enjoy their hobbies will push their hobbies to extremes. His hobby was flying a plane, other people drive fast cars, others skydive.

Before I had kids A LOT. After I had children I drive like a granny in the slow lane. My hobbies are baseball cards and record collecting....so nothing where gravity can have an affect I just feel so badly for his family.

[trdcrdkid]

Just for the record: I think Halladay was a great pitcher who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and will probably get there eventually. But I'm skeptical that he'll make it on the first ballot, due to the prevalence of certain opinions that have been on display in this thread; he certainly won't get 100% of the vote. His low counting stats (just over 200 wins), his numerous mediocre seasons mixed in with his great ones, his sparse postseason experience relative to other similar pitchers (Petitte, etc.) -- whether you agree with them or not, these are all reasons people give for not thinking Halladay is a HOFer. I don't agree that those things should keep him out, but a not insignificant percentage of people do think that, and I'm sure that includes quite a few Hall of Fame voters.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Now they've released footage which seems to show him doing very stupid things with his plane. Damm. Very sad. Clearly a great family man who adored his kids. Should have taken up a safer hobby.

My dad, who was a hot air balloon pilot for about a decade and a half and got out of that hobby due to the dangers and him having a family (all similar to Roy; a wife and two kids), said the same thing.

Apparently Roy enjoyed flying real close to the water, as he felt like it was a war plane at that point (WWII water strafes or something...).

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Now they've released footage which seems to show him doing very stupid things with his plane. Damm. Very sad. Clearly a great family man who adored his kids. Should have taken up a safer hobby.

His baseball contract probably did not allow him to fly.

However we still dont know for sure anything. Im sure the airplane maker will use the info to blame pilot error and to avoid any blame to their aircraft.

The too fast to furious actor that died had a claim through his estate for product defect to the car that was crashed..

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

You can argue but its not laughable.

The cheating thing doesnt really matter anymore especially with pitchers. Just a few more years and we will see guys with a much worse 'cheating' connotation be in the hall.

At times being the most dominated pitcher isnt enough. How is 1 season.? is that enough..how about 2? Its not like he had 6 seasons. Many times the Cy young award is a toss up between a few guys. Petitte was top 6 in the Cy young 5 times and Roy 7 times.

Plus again, you cant penalize a guy from doing well in the post season. Not having chance still hurts you. Thats life. There are great players that never got a chance to do a lot of things, and we dont give them awards either.

If you have a guy that did do something versus a guy that never had a chance, guess what the guy that did do something gets the edge..

the last year petitte pitched he was an all star...he could of continued to pitch if he wanted too and he could of gotten to 300 wins who know...but he never got the opportunity so petitte doesnt get the credit for that. Just like Roy doesnt get any credit for the playoffs since he didnt have the opportunities..

Pettite has the most post season wins in baseball history....roy worst seasons (era over 10 in 13 starts sent down to minors) were much worse than Andys worse seasons...if you want to count the best of the best seasons you need to count the worst of the worse seasons..

Its far from laughable to compare the two

Top 6 in the Cy Young voting. When did top 6 become a thing. That is laughable.

How about Cy wins 2-0
Top 3 which is much more standard than top 6 which is 5-1 Doc.

Andy was a solid pitcher that compiled a lot of wins over a very long career on some of the best teams and helped extend his career with the aid of PHDs.

[darwinbulldog]

My co-workers have also been extending their careers with PhDs. They're quite open about it.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

My co-workers have also been extending their careers with PhDs. They're quite open about it.

Lol. Nice typo on my part. Andy Pettitte was a very smart guy I hear!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Top 6 in the Cy Young voting. When did top 6 become a thing. That is laughable.

How about Cy wins 2-0
Top 3 which is much more standard than top 6 which is 5-1 Doc.

Andy was a solid pitcher that compiled a lot of wins over a very long career on some of the best teams and helped extend his career with the aid of PHDs.

And how many post season wins for Doc? Hes blown out of the water from that.

Also Doc's 2 worst seasons were far worse than anything Pettite did..so 2-0 there as well. As for top 6 or top 3 in cy young...3-6 is a lot of the same class. Baseball reference uses the top 6..and most people go by baseball reference as the standard.

We dont know how Roy would of did on Pettite's teams but Pettite took advantage of his opportunity. He was never sent down to the minors in his 3rd season or later due to ineffectiveness as well. Also its not like the win total is even close. Pettite blows Roy out of the water in that category and counting stats matter until you show me a 300 winner not make to the HOF.

Tim Lincecum won two Cy youngs. .wining a Cy young or two doesnt make you a HOF at all. The counting stats matter and pettite destroys Doc in most of them.

Its laughable you think it is laughable to compare the two.

[ALR-bishop]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...-20171109.html

[darwinbulldog]

Well, that's talk radio for you.

[Shoeless Moe]

I wouldn't say "deserved" to die, but a complete idiot and moron, yes Halladay was that.

Of course maybe he was drunk, like Jose Fernandez, who knows.

[timn1]

.

[timn1]

How many post-season no-hitters for Pettitte? He's blown out of the water on that one!

Seriously, Halladay got 5 starts in the postseason, Pettitte 41. Don't you think Pettitte's teams might have had something to do with it?

Personally I think they are both HOFers but IMHO, your reasoning is laughable.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

And how many post season wins for Doc? Hes blown out of the water from that.

Also Doc's 2 worst seasons were far worse than anything Pettite did..so 2-0 there as well. As for top 6 or top 3 in cy young...3-6 is a lot of the same class. Baseball reference uses the top 6..and most people go by baseball reference as the standard.

We dont know how Roy would of did on Pettite's teams but Pettite took advantage of his opportunity. He was never sent down to the minors in his 3rd season or later due to ineffectiveness as well. Also its not like the win total is even close. Pettite blows Roy out of the water in that category and counting stats matter until you show me a 300 winner not make to the HOF.

Tim Lincecum won two Cy youngs. .wining a Cy young or two doesnt make you a HOF at all. The counting stats matter and pettite destroys Doc in most of them.

Its laughable you think it is laughable to compare the two.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by timn1

How many post-season no-hitters for Pettitte? He's blown out of the water on that one!

Seriously, Halladay got 5 starts in the postseason, Pettitte 41. Don't you think Pettitte's teams might have had something to do with it?

Personally I think they are both HOFers but IMHO, your reasoning is laughable.

Agree with most of this but not with Pettitte being an hofer.

The argument about 300 wins is also laughable because Pettitte doesn't have 300 or even 270. Also Pettitte has a career 3.83 era I believe. How many hofers have an era that high.

I'll wait.....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Agree with most of this but not with Pettitte being an hofer.

The argument about 300 wins is also laughable because Pettitte doesn't have 300 or even 270. Also Pettitte has a career 3.83 era I believe. How many hofers have an era that high.

I'll wait.....

Red Ruffing era was 3.8 but he won 273 games.

Roys era is about 3.6, so not sure how that great era supports him (woudl put him bottom 5 of the current 75 pitchers in HOF). Petiite played 2 more years than Roy yet the two worst seasons between the two pitchers are assessed to Roy not Pettite.

The argument about 300 wins is to say that counting stats matter unless someone with 300 wins doesnt go into the HOF. Not sure thats a laughable argument.

Petitte has about 275 combined wins with postseason and regular season compared to how many by Roy...thats the argument that counting stats matter.

Winning 2 cy youngs doesnt get you into the HOF.

Saying its not fair Petitte got wins on teams that Roy didnt get is all about opportunity. It is what it is. Petitte blows Roy out of the water in wins which is a big stat for the HOF.

You want to talk about how many pitchers get into the HOF with a 3.8 era. (or 3.6 for Roy) .i would counter that with how may starters win less than 203 games get into the HOF and not due to early injury/political reason/also closer etc) Smoltz won 213 for example

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by timn1

How many post-season no-hitters for Pettitte? He's blown out of the water on that one!

Seriously, Halladay got 5 starts in the postseason, Pettitte 41. Don't you think Pettitte's teams might have had something to do with it?

Personally I think they are both HOFers but IMHO, your reasoning is laughable.

It is what it is. You cant assume Roy would of done well in the postseason, we dont know. .the only data we have is Petitte DID well. Lots of guys dont get opportunities but they are't held in higher regard than people than did get opportunities and came through..

You dont get into the HOF for pitching no hitters


As far as talking about Roy's stats after the recent news. i think its pretty normal to discuss careers of people and where they stand against other peoples careers especially in the entertainment and sports. This is exactly when these discussions occur, after recent news.