Candiman Auctions Explained

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Jesse,

I agree with you. You can choose to believe me or not but I had nothing to do with what went on with Battlefield on eBay. If you want to find me guilty by association then that's your prerogative. If we are all guilty by association then I'm sure every single person on the forum is guilty of something bad.

Daniel

Assuming that is true, which I highly doubt, launching your new business by offering an auction consisting almost entirely of their inventory in the same raw condition seems to me to be a questionable decision. How is that supposed to dissociate you from Battlefield? Why do all of the listings include the same types of scans, descriptions, and overly optimistic grading assessments that appeared in battlefield eBay auctions?

I can't imagine why anyone would want to consign to an auction house that starts off this way when there are so many other options available.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Peter,

Yes that is our policy which is in line with every other auction house in the industry. If by looking at the pictures posted and reading our descriptions you don't agree with our assessment then bid accordingly. The policy is clearly posted for everyone to see prior to bidding.

Again, if ANY card in the auction that we haven't identified as altered is submitted for grading and comes back as such we will encourage the buyer to return the card for a full refund.

Daniel

As was pointed out above, you aren't every other auction house. You are a start-up with no experience or as far as we know qualifications, selling the raw inventory of a notorious fraudster. And anyhow I don't know any respected auction these days that would sell some of the cards you are calling NM or NM MT without grading them. These are not attacks, that's a bogus narrative on your part. These are legitimate concerns, not answered simply by saying, trust us.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Daniel, you may not believe this, but the "attacks" you have received are very mild compared to many other threads over the years. Leon was not deceiving you there. In fact you have received more support than I expected.

And I understand you being upset that your faith may have been questioned. Many of us feel that adhering to a religion is serious stuff and a religious person should provide more ethical transactions. Unfortunately, there are many who use religion to prey on others honesty and then take advantage of them. That includes here and especially on eBay. While sticking with your faith is admirable, it doesn't help because of others that came before you. As a Christian, even I am wary when I see eBay dealers profess their faith. More often than not they are using it to deceive. Ive learned it's best to leave faith out of business discussions. Save it for future one-on-one dealings with those you know personally.

I completely agree that religion and faith have no place in these discussions. Not because anyone doubts your sincerity, but because they are irrelevant. Very well-stated.

[CandimanAuctions]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I would agree with you, however realize that waving your faith as a banner in a forum that has nothing to do with faith is going to attract attention. Some of it will not be positive. I generally don't condone mocking anyone on a generic basis, I prefer to be specific. I would defend your right to your faith, but I might be tempted to give you grief for irrelevantly bringing it into this thread. I didn't, but I might.

Scott,

I'm not going to address this any further. I have zero respect for the person that made that comment. That tells me all I need to know about his character. He specifically picked out that line out of everything I have posted on this forum to mock me. Anyone who would do that has no integrity in my opinion. If you guys can't respect that then I am sorry. This will be the last I comment about this. This thread is about my auction and nothing more.

Daniel

[CandimanAuctions]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Daniel, you may not believe this, but the "attacks" you have received are very mild compared to many other threads over the years. Leon was not deceiving you there. In fact you have received more support than I expected.

And I understand you being upset that your faith may have been questioned. Many of us feel that adhering to a religion is serious stuff and a religious person should provide more ethical transactions. Unfortunately, there are many who use religion to prey on others honesty and then take advantage of them. That includes here and especially on eBay. While sticking with your faith is admirable, it doesn't help because of others that came before you. As a Christian, even I am wary when I see eBay dealers profess their faith. More often than not they are using it to deceive. Ive learned it's best to leave faith out of business discussions. Save it for future one-on-one dealings with those you know personally.

Hi Eric,

I agree that it is best to leave it out of business discussions. But I will not deny my faith or apologize for it. I respect everyone's right to their own beliefs and mocking someone's beliefs is not OK with me. That's my only point. Please lets get back to focusing on the auction and nothing more.

Thanks,

Daniel

[CandimanAuctions]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Why do all of the listings include the same types of scans, descriptions, and overly optimistic grading assessments that appeared in battlefield eBay auctions?

Jesse,

Have you looked at the auction? I would hardly describe the majority of the auction as "overly optimistic grading assessments". There are many lower grade cards that have been clearly graded just as the higher grade stuff.

Daniel

[CandimanAuctions]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As was pointed out above, you aren't every other auction house. You are a start-up with no experience or as far as we know qualifications, selling the raw inventory of a notorious fraudster. And anyhow I don't know any respected auction these days that would sell some of the cards you are calling NM or NM MT without grading them. These are not attacks, that's a bogus narrative on your part. These are legitimate concerns, not answered simply by saying, trust us.

Peter,

Look, I know I'm not going to win with you. You have been one of the most critical people on this thread and no matter what I say you aren't going to believe me. There's no point in repeating myself over and over again. The only thing I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove ourselves. With this auction and the subsequent one's. Like many people on here have said, if we aren't being honest, we won't last very long. I plan on Candiman Auctions being around for years to come. Can you at least agree to allow us the chance to prove ourselves? Time will prove that we are being straightforward with everyone.

Daniel

[CandimanAuctions]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Daniel, have no problem with you or Battlefield and when I bought from Battlefield, was aa flawless transaction. I would have no problem bidding in your auction as you seem legitimate. Only Issue I have is there is nothing there I am interested in as is true for most auctions including ebay. Not your fault on this one as I have a very narrow focus of collecting. Good luck on your acution and I wish you the best. As with any auction including the big ones, it is always Caveat Emptor.

Kmac

Hi Ken,

Thank you very much. I hope we have some items in our future auctions that will interest you.

Thanks,

Daniel

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Peter,

Look, I know I'm not going to win with you. You have been one of the most critical people on this thread and no matter what I say you aren't going to believe me. There's no point in repeating myself over and over again. The only thing I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove ourselves. With this auction and the subsequent one's. Like many people on here have said, if we aren't being honest, we won't last very long. I plan on Candiman Auctions being around for years to come. Can you at least agree to allow us the chance to prove ourselves? Time will prove that we are being straightforward with everyone.

Daniel

You very well may be honest, and I do hope that turns out to be the case. But by your logic -- I wouldn't do anything dishonest or I won't last -- there would be no dishonesty in the world. It doesn't help. What would help is if you took the collective advice of this Board on how to effectively dissociate yourself from Battlefield, but since you won't, then I think most of us are just going to wait and see and not take risks.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Can you at least agree to allow us the chance to prove ourselves?

I think that's a fair request.

[buymycards]

Hi Daniel, you haven't been attacked by everyone on this forum. There seems to be a group of 8 to 10 guys who attack many of the auction houses, they attack many of the larger eBay sellers, and seem to be negative about just about everything.

It seems like every post ends up with an long argument between David and Peter.

Welcome to Net54.

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Dave,

How dare you mock my faith. I have ZERO respect for someone who would come on a forum like this and mock someones faith. Especially someone they've never even met or talked to. You should be ashamed of yourself. Leon, I would hope that this post will be removed and that no other members of this forum would support comments like this. I am fine being attacked but I will not support someone attacking mine or anyone else's faith.

Daniel

Hey Pal! Just a reminder: you're the one who introduced your religion into this thread - (perhaps thinking that would buy you some cred?) That was my only point in my post: when in doubt, play the Jesus card. Frankly, I don't give a rat's a** what your religious preference is. You brought it up, not me. So, that makes your comment fair game. Do not spin this like I am slamming or shaming anyone's religion. And frankly, religion is irrelevant and unwelcome to this board and this thread.

[botn]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Greg,

I think people are overthinking the word "appears". It only means that by our evaluation a card appears to be in ____ condition. If I'm evaluating a card and say "this card appears to be NM to me" I don't see any problem with that. I believe our grades are accurate but as we all know grading is subjective. It is only our opinion. That's why there are images of every card in the auction posted for everyone to see so potential bidders can make their own judgement before placing a bid.

Daniel

Daniel,

You are simply talking in circles. Grading is subjective. PSA, SGC and BVG graders do it every day. You do not see their flips saying Appears NM-MT, do you? If you have the skills, experience and qualifications you should not have to use the word "appears" to describe the condition of a card. And 2 or 3 times now I have stated your scans are inadequate and far too small for anyone to assess a card. You like to compare yourself to every other auction house so please tell me another auction house that only provides tiny scans on their auction lots?

I give you credit for coming on here but what is the point if you keep skirting the issues? Yeah I know you do not think you are not skirting the issues. You reply but you truly communicate nothing substantial. I was neutral after first post but I am incredibly skeptical now given the replies you have made here.

Greg

[cardsnstuff]

Originally Posted by cardsnstuff

Actually, your wrong, several auctions houses already accept paypal and several more are moving towards that. For many, it's also convenient; In your particular situation, the reason I suggest it, is because although you might be telling the truth {might, being the key word}, it will provide any buyers with more protection particularly if item is not as described. You must admit the questionable practices of the past and current inventory in the current auction DO NOT inspire confidence.

Daniel, The reason I keep pushing paypal; As asked previously, Specifically: what guarantee's are you offering that an item is accurately described? I am not speaking about those as identified as authentic. I am speaking of those that are not. I understand other auction houses perhaps don't offer any either however they have a presence in the hobby for decades and thousands of satisfied customers, and generally many accept returns if not as described. And if you have followed the industry most high grade and many high $ mid grade examples of vintage cards are graded now a days, especially with the fraud that has existed in the past.

As a new auction house I think you need to go over and above {as I do on ebay, Just an FYI I am not plugging myself I am just using myself as an example}. I hope you can be successful, If you are honest you will be. Good Luck

[glchen]

I'll just throw a vote in and repeat what most of the other posters in this thread have said. If the OP wants to be given the benefit of the doubt and treated as a respected auctioneer, he needs to grade any valuable card that he has listed, in which he does not expect an Authentic grade. I would personally say that any card with a estimated value over $500 should be graded by a respected TPG (e.g., PSA, SGC, Beckett). Actions speak louder than words on a forum, and that is my belief on what the OP needs to do in order to be trusted.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by glchen

I'll just throw a vote in and repeat what most of the other posters in this thread have said. If the OP wants to be given the benefit of the doubt and treated as a respected auctioneer, he needs to grade any valuable card that he has listed, in which he does not expect an Authentic grade. I would personally say that any card with a estimated value over $500 should be graded by a respected TPG (e.g., PSA, SGC, Beckett). Actions speak louder than words on a forum, and that is my belief on what the OP needs to do in order to be trusted.

Agreed. I am no professional card grader but many of the borders look uneven and/or “short”. Maybe it is my mind playing tricks on me based on the history here. I have never done biz with the op parents as i am no card guy. All of this said, i think my opinion based on Whst i read here is telling since i have no skin in this game. I would Not spend money in this auction thinking a card that “looks Nm” would grade out even close to that the way things are worded coupled with past links. It just all points one way... which is nowhere good imo.

[BoyWonder089]

Originally Posted by BoyWonder089

Hi Daniel and Justin,

First off, good luck with the auction. I hope everything you have said up to this point is honest and filled with nothing but good intentions.

This is merely a suggestion, but might you two be willing to post a video introducing yourselves and the auction site a bit more? Maybe provide some close up highlights of the auction?

I think many people realize how easily photos can be shopped, so maybe a video might add some additional trust?

Daniel and Justin,

Any chance you guys would be willing to post an introduction video? Might help add some trust?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Jesse,

Have you looked at the auction? I would hardly describe the majority of the auction as "overly optimistic grading assessments". There are many lower grade cards that have been clearly graded just as the higher grade stuff.

Daniel

I have, actually. I see scans that I can't even zoom in on to try to make out the details. And the corners are fuzzy and I can't tell how sharp they are. I have no way to know if a card listed is really NM or NM + as you have them described, or VG, ex, or altered as I assume they will grade.

When I look through an auction listing I hit the sort by price, high to low button. If I'm interested in what I see I will keep scrolling from one page to the next. After seeing the first page of your auction i saw no need to keep going.

I did see a 55 bowman mantle very off center with rounded corners described an NM, as well as several other cards that seem over graded.

As I mentioned in an earlier post what I have seen seems very similar to what I saw in battlefielslds eBay listings, moved to a stand alone auction site. Perhaps I will check out the next auction and see if it looks any different. But I will be sitting this one out.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I did see a 55 bowman mantle very off center with rounded corners described an NM...

I have to agree with this. The OC part doesn't bother me, people can judge centering for themselves. But the corners do appear to be rounded (especially the top right and bottom left). The funny thing is they don't show any wear. You would think you would see a lot of white showing through with the corners that rounded.

I increased the size of the scans some.

[Peter_Spaeth]

One man's NM is another man's EX.

[botn]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I have to agree with this. The OC part doesn't bother me, people can judge centering for themselves. But the corners do appear to be rounded (especially the top right and bottom left). The funny thing is they don't show any wear. You would think you would see a lot of white showing through with the corners that rounded.

I increased the size of the scans some.

Well we have been told that grading is subjective. If this is an example of their NM then it is very safe to assume the other NM examples (that do appear to be NM) have hidden flaws that would render them EX.

[botn]

Sing along if you know the lyrics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPGyKGuWeA

[chlankf]

I fortunately never dealt with Battlefield. I do respect the majority of opinions of our board members and stayed away from them and will be following suite on your auctions, why risk my hard earned money. Time will be the true test for you in your venture and i honestly hope your comments shine true. While, like many, i am skeptical on your sincerity. In my experience those who try this hard to defend themselves are usually guilty and overly trying to cover their tracks, a guilty minds worst enemy. That being said, I do wish you the best of luck and would welcome another honest, key word, venue to obtain items. Just my two cents, pull any item that you are not 100% certain that the description is not spot on, you should be overly critical of your items. If you have even one or two Net54 members take the risk winning an item and are unsatisfied, you will never recover. The reputation damage will be irreparable and you will have wasted time, money and have shot yourself for ever having an opportunity again.

Take the advice from the community here, no one is trying to deter you from following your dreams. If you ignore all the suggestions it will be your loss and IMO a foolish move.

Final thought, leave religion out of all conversations unless you are discussing with a group of folks that all share the same beliefs. This is not that group. While it may have been innocent, there are those of us who view the remarks negatively and laughable.

[irv]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Peter,

Yes that is our policy which is in line with every other auction house in the industry. If by looking at the pictures posted and reading our descriptions you don't agree with our assessment then bid accordingly. The policy is clearly posted for everyone to see prior to bidding.

Again, if ANY card in the auction that we haven't identified as altered is submitted for grading and comes back as such we will encourage the buyer to return the card for a full refund.

Daniel

You repeatedly keep saying this but what guarantees anyone that you guys will be around after your first auction is over?? Many here are thinking this, I can guarantee that.

Like what has been mentioned numerous times, you sound and look too much like Battlefield and War-eagle.

My gut tells me, and I hope I am wrong, that you guys are just trying one last time to grab as much money as you can before you leave the hobby/auctions for good.

I also think you likely know that this forum/some members here had a big part in your parents demise/exit from E-Bay.

I know this is harsh, but like what has been said numerous times, you are not answering questions fully and seem determined to continue down that path without appeasing anyones concerns or questions.

Post up bigger, expandable pictures for starters. That cannot be that hard can it? And if you are 100% truthful in your self praise that you are in it for the long haul, that should have been done immediately after the first poster mentioned it.
You still have not given a reasonable answer why you never did that in the first place nor why you continue not too?

Like I said much earlier, you had me for a bit with your choice words where I actually believed you somewhat, but after reading more and more of your replies, I have completely done a 180 since.

[botport]

How long does this need to go on?

Most single vintage cards in auctions... collector grade to high grade are slabbed by a TPG... enough of the free advertisement for Candiman Inc.

Plenty of people have had their say. Let the auction, and or future auctions sink or swim. Enough information has been disseminated for people to make their own minds up.

[frankbmd]

To paraphrase Groucho Marx

“I wouldn’t want to be a bidder in any auction that would accept me as a bidder.”

[Jenx34]

Originally Posted by bigfish

I am not buying candiman is here to be robinhood. I think battlefield and candiman are the same entity.

Basket of deplorables


Toby Petersen

I don't know that to be true. However, I had some issues with battlefield in July (I guess that's why I didn't get an email from them!). My takeaways from that and going forward are:

1. Once I filed a return claim on Ebay, I received and traded messages on Ebay. The tone was not nice, as I was not happy they relisted and sold all of the cards again, including one that had unmentioned paper loss on the back, BEFORE they refunded my money. The verbage of those messages did not have the feel of coming from a female. They also didn't contain wording what I would think of as coming from an 80+ yr old man and felt like they were coming with someone younger. I can't prove it and I went back and those messages are no longer on Ebay. So Daniel, if it wasn't you or your brother, who was handling that part of the business for your parents?

2. Battlefield and then War Eagle Vintage both used Auctiva software. They listed 500-600 cards per week. I apologize if I offend some of our older collectors who are computer savvy, but how realistic is that they didn't have help from the kids. I could be wrong on this one as I'm almost 50 myself, but I still thought it far fetched that war eagle vintage could be up and running so fast, especially if you believed the story in their listings, which brings me to #3......

3. When War Eagle Vintage started selling right after Battlefield stopped, their listings included a story about how they were selling a lifelong collection after recently retiring, blah blah blah. "Their story" certainly didn't give the feel of "we've been in business for a long time screwing people". It was also noted here that several of the cards listed were recently purchased as authentic, with comparable pics to prove it.

So I ask, why should we believe this is not just another story spun as was done with war_eagle_vintage? It seems Ebay was no longer an option, so another way to do business had to be found. Spin it with a new story and make money? Keep in mind, Battlefield took returns and issued refunds. So is changing their policy on refunds as a member suggested here, really helpful? It sounds good, but if you sell enough stuff and make enough money, who cares if you have to take returns? It works for WalMart!

One of the other things I read about Candiman, Inc. existing since 2011 makes me question things. What is the history there? Maybe it's already been answered, but an explanation there would be nice.

One last thought... even if everything they say is true and they are "clean" and don't/never approve of how their parents did business, aren't buyers of these cards simply rewarding the parents anyway? If the money is going back to them, it doesn't seem like them being "out of the business" is true.

[DJR]

How hard would it be for Silkroadauction to shut down this charade?

[BeanTown]

One thing I noticed when registering to bid on their auction. You are approved right away no matter what information you put down. No verification on anything and approval happens right after you hit submit.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Hey guys,

My name is Daniel and along with my brother Justin, we are the owners of Candiman Auctions. We We want to be upfront and honest with everyone about our association with them. We are related to the owners as I'm sure everyone on here already suspected based on our last name.

Related? Really? You make your parents sound like distant cousins. If you wanted to be upfront and honest, you could have been a little more transparent about that.

Originally Posted by Jenx34

even if everything they say is true and they are "clean" and don't/never approve of how their parents did business, aren't buyers of these cards simply rewarding the parents anyway? If the money is going back to them, it doesn't seem like them being "out of the business" is true.

Exactly. Even if they are disassociated from their parents, anyone who bids in this auction is rewarding their parents. They don't deserve our bids.

I believe the brothers should be judged apart from their parents. Problem is, Candiman appears to be nothing more than a revamped Battlefield.

[Jenx34]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

LOL, come on, Jeff. As I already stated (and as someone confirmed 3 posts above), altered and trimmed cards DO have a place in the hobby.

Peter chastises Candiman for purchasing Battlefield's inventory, I'm just curious what Peter thinks should have happened to it?

David:

The answer is not as cut and dried as you want it to be. The fact that they are consigning cards from the inventory of a known scammer as the feature cards in their first auction doesn't pass the smell test. It makes one wonder if they aren't just in this for a quick buck. I don't know the answer to what should happen to all of those cards, but being the feature of a new auction house run by family members just doesn't sit well.

What people are saying, is because of the history, they should go above and beyond to make sure they are above reproach. That they go the extra mile to distance themselves and earn respect on their own rather than jumping right in with mamma and daddy's tainted collection. Perhaps if they established themselves first and then added a few to future auctions with even more detail than they are presenting, it might fly. But I have yet to see them state in this thread that they have measured every single card and only made note of a handful (ones that could likely be traced back to their parents REA purchases?).

Also, in their responses they keep referring to Battlefield's inventory and not condoning Battlefield's prior actions, but no mention of war_wagle_vintage. Maybe a technicality, but future auctions could have inventory from war eagle, but not Battlefield.... Still lots of questions for me.

[Jenx34]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Peter,

Look, I know I'm not going to win with you. You have been one of the most critical people on this thread and no matter what I say you aren't going to believe me. There's no point in repeating myself over and over again. The only thing I can ask is that you give us the chance to prove ourselves. With this auction and the subsequent one's. Like many people on here have said, if we aren't being honest, we won't last very long. I plan on Candiman Auctions being around for years to come. Can you at least agree to allow us the chance to prove ourselves? Time will prove that we are being straightforward with everyone.

Daniel

Daniel, your problem with Peter is you keep coming back with the same responses and he keeps challenging you because your responses to cover the depth of his concerns. I believe what Peter has said and is trying to say is this...

As a new auction house, fairly or unfairly attached to the reputation of your parents Ebay shenanigans, if you want respect from the serious card community, it is on YOU to go above and beyond to SEPARATE your business from the transgressions of your family. Featuring their inventory isn't doing so. And your continued responses about Peter's concern re: grading accuracy and another's question about Paypal with "we are the same as all the other auction houses" does nothing to separate you or give anyone the confidence that you are not just an extension of your parents with a new story and method.

If you are NOT them, prove it by separating yourself from them, not just denouncing them. If you had listed a few cards of theirs and disclosed that might be just fine. But that collection is the bellcow of this first auction, which sends up red flags everywhere. So it really is YOU that is not doing a good enough job earning it, rather than just asking people to believe you.

I truly hope you can see the difference.

[Stonepony]

I've been following this thread and likely was the one to direct the auctioneer to this thread. After reading opinions and examining the cards in the auction I have a couple thoughts. 1) Candiman auctions has shown williness to engage in conversation that is quite heated and inflammatory, yet shown poise and respect. That's not easy to do. I understand they haven't complied with some posters request or answered all questions. I don't expect them to suddenly close an auction scheduled to close in a couple days and ship cards to PSA that is months and months behind on orders. 2) I believe most if not all the " high grade" raw cards are Battlefield inventory and not another consignor 3) I am not going to take a chance on the auction ( disclosed- I did put in a bid for the Red Heart Mantle before I knew who they were associated with) because I'm not comfortable with their ability to assign grades. If I bought a card and it came back authentic from PSA I would simply return it. My problem is cards that are listed as NM ( the 1955 B Mantle) that is clearly VG. This wipes out any confidence I would have that their assigned grades are remotely accurate. Without larger scans and more detailed descriptions I can't risk it.
I'm sure someone on this site is going to take a flyer. sometimes we can't help
Ourselves. I hope those persons keep us updated. I hope all works out well for all involved, but I'm out.

[slidekellyslide]

So two young guys with accounting degrees decide to go into the baseball card business at the same time their parents get booted from ebay? They say no one can claim to have done business with them in the past yet they also say they have collected their whole life. They have Battlefield NM-M in appearance cards that they refuse to send off for grading. Paypal not accepted.

And then one of them dropped the "God bless" card.

Good luck fellas.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

So two young guys with accounting degrees decide to go into the baseball card business at the same time their parents get booted from ebay? They say no one can claim to have done business with them in the past yet they also say they have collected their whole life. They have Battlefield NM-M in appearance cards that they refuse to send off for grading. Paypal not accepted.

And then one of them dropped the "God bless" card.

Good luck fellas.

And don't forget, no recourse if you or a TPG disagrees with their grade. Hardly a theoretical concern given the origin of the cards and the NM I mean EX 55 Mantle we saw yesterday.

[Bpm0014]

There is a Don Mattingly card that is described at "Mint +". Whatever that means?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And don't forget, no recourse if you or a TPG disagrees with their grade. Hardly a theoretical concern given the origin of the cards and the NM I mean EX 55 Mantle we saw yesterday.

Is there a single auction house that guarantees that a card will grade exactly the same as their estimate?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Is there a single auction house that guarantees that a card will grade exactly the same as their estimate?

Is there a single other auction house selling Battlefield's inventory, or selling 52T NM Jackie Robinsons ungraded?

Beyond that, with most auction houses or dealers, you know the qualifications and track record of the guys telling you their grades. If (just to pick a couple of names at random) Steve Verkman or Mike Wheat or Dean's Cards are telling me how a "raw" card grades, that means something to me.

If it's an unknown telling you the grade, you're taking a big risk on anything worth real dollars.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is there a single other auction house selling Battlefield's inventory, or selling 52T NM Jackie Robinsons ungraded?

Peter your answer is even more evasive than theirs.

[slipk1068]

A nice midgrade 52 Jackie has been very high on my wantlist for a while. Just waiting for the right card at the right price. It is tempting to go for the one in their auction because I can likely get that for a PSA 4-5 price. If I can get it into a PSA 6 or higher holder, JACKPOT. Battlefield built their business around collectors trying to do just that-find a raw bargain.

I am not fooled. I do think these brothers deserve to be judged separate from their parents, but the safest route is to sit this one out and wait to hear the feedback from their 1st auction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Peter your answer is even more evasive than theirs.

Not at all. I am pointing out context. The fact that other auction houses don't guarantee their grade, which the OP kept alluding to, really is beside the point here.

If (just to use a perhaps imperfect analogy, and only for illustration) Bernie Madoff's son with no experience was offering you an investment opportunity -- indeed the same one his father previously tried to sell you -- you're going to hold him to a higher standard than a venture capitalist with a 20 year track record with whom you are familiar.

And that's all I am saying here -- the situation calls for caution -- and I am not sure the OP fully understands why so many of us are saying that. It's not an attack, it's not personal, it's just common sense.

[jfkheat]

One issue that I see here that has not been brought up it that many of these high dollar cards have been sold by battlefield and war_eagle on eBay more than one time. They were returned for refunds because they weren't as described. Was that because of photoshopped scans or because the cards had been altered in some way. I would bet that many of the high dollar cards were in slabs when the parents bought them.
James

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not at all. I am pointing out context. The fact that other auction houses don't guarantee their grade, which the OP kept alluding to, really is beside the point here.

If (just to use a perhaps imperfect analogy, and only for illustration) Bernie Madoff's son with no experience was offering you an investment opportunity -- indeed the same one his father previously tried to sell you -- you're going to hold him to a higher standard than a venture capitalist with a 20 year track record with whom you are familiar.

I do understand all of your posts in this thread. Because of my life experiences I judge people on their own actions. Yes that silly way of thinking has got me burnt before. I would still rather give many scum the benefit of doubt rather that talk crap about 1 innocent person no matter who they are related to.

I can see many legit reasons they are selling their parents old inventory. At some point in time I will have to do the same thing with all the junk my dad has acquired. I can guarantee he is much worse than a couple selling some baseball cards listed improperly.

I will end this by saying if they do turn out to be scum I will be pilling it on them as much as anybody else. Just read some of my posts I am not afraid to call out the scum in this hobby even though it has come close to getting me kicked off this wonderful forum a few times.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

There is a Don Mattingly card that is described at "Mint +". Whatever that means?

PSA 11. Just wait. It's coming.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by conor912

PSA 11. Just wait. It's coming.

Those PSA 11 cards as known as "Pristine Gem Mint" I have one in my collection. Custom made of course.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

I am not fooled. I do think these brothers deserve to be judged separate from their parents, but the safest route is to sit this one out and wait to hear the feedback from their 1st auction.

I don't know about that...I just searched their mother on facebook. She works for an accounting firm in Dothan, Alabama. Does anyone really think they're not close with their parents? This is the same wolf with new sheep clothing.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I do understand all of your posts in this thread. Because of my life experiences I judge people on their own actions. Yes that silly way of thinking has got me burnt before. I would still rather give many scum the benefit of doubt rather that talk crap about 1 innocent person no matter who they are related to.

I can see many legit reasons they are selling their parents old inventory. At some point in time I will have to do the same thing with all the junk my dad has acquired. I can guarantee he is much worse than a couple selling some baseball cards listed improperly.

I will end this by saying if they do turn out to be scum I will be pilling it on them as much as anybody else. Just read some of my posts I am not afraid to call out the scum in this hobby even though it has come close to getting me kicked off this wonderful forum a few times.

Ben I understand your sentiments and generally agree. I just think under the circumstances the merchandise should be presented with having made every attempt ( including TPG and high quality scans and descriptions) to fully disclose the quality and condition of the cards. The cards came from a corrupt organization and we should certainly demand clarity

[frankbmd]

Let’s hear from all those who judged war eagle independently of battlefield, despite having essentially the same inventory and modus operandi.
Granted the venue is different now, but sometimes a leap of faith is off a cliff.

[slidekellyslide]

Coach's Corner is still in business. Shady businesses can keep operating seemingly forever I suppose as long as they offer returns. Battlefield was operating for how long on ebay without any repercussion? War Eagle was the same outfit. I personally believe this family has just decided to go independent and cut out the middleman (ebay).

[Ulidia]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I can see many legit reasons they are selling their parents old inventory. At some point in time I will have to do the same thing with all the junk my dad has acquired. I can guarantee he is much worse than a couple selling some baseball cards listed improperly.

I will end this by saying if they do turn out to be scum I will be pilling it on them as much as anybody else. Just read some of my posts I am not afraid to call out the scum in this hobby even though it has come close to getting me kicked off this wonderful forum a few times.

The issue isn’t that they are apparently selling their parents’ inventory - it is that they appear to be using very similar (much critised) techniques that, prima facile, would make limited sense to an objective bystander.