OT:Osama Is Dead

[Section103]

Curt is a pure, unfiltered idiot. Im glad we got our guy.

[Rickyy]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I don't know if I can really agree with Curt on this one. While Bin Laden may not have been deserving of a Muslim burial, the fact remains that he was still Muslim. A radical Muslim sure, but a Muslim nonetheless. Now as Americans we are taught to respect the religions of any individual regardless of their actions, even if those actions are somehow religiously based. His radical actions should not have been tolerated, and they weren't. He payed with his life for it. The man still deserved a proper muslim burial based on the core of his faith, not his actions. 99% of the people in this country(myself included) would've rather set the guy on fire and pissed it out over and over again until there was nothing left, but that is not our decision to make...We did the right thing giving him a proper Muslim burial. It shows that we as a nation can think and act rationally no matter how much hatred we may have for an individual.

+1 well said...

[howard38]

Bin Laden didn't deserve a proper burial for the simple fact that he perverted the tenets of islam and thus was not a true muslim. Disposing of him properly, however, gives the rest of the radical nutcakes one less reason to kill a few innocent people. They kill for simple cartoons so who knows how many would have to die to satisfy their anger at an improper burial?

Howard Rosen

[vintagetoppsguy]

As a nation, when did we start respecting the burial customs of our enemies? We've killed tens of thousands of Muslims in the war on terror. Are you telling me that our government ensured that they each received a proper Muslim burial?

This was done for pure political reasons so that we would not ruffle any feathers in the Muslim world. Otherwise, why even announce how he was buried? Is it important?

And to anybody that thinks he deserved a proper Muslim burial, I have a question for you. Had we captured him alive instead, should he have received a proper Muslim trial?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

This was done for pure political reasons so that we would not ruffle any feathers in the Muslim world. Otherwise, why even announce how he was buried? Is it important?

I understand your thinking David but let me ask you this question. It goes hand in hand with Howard's view right above. Had they not done a proper Muslim burial, and it gave further cause for the radical jihadists to kill innocent people, would it still be worth it not to give a proper Muslim burial? No, he absolutely didn't deserve one for what he did, however that is not the question to me. The evil person is already dead. He got exactly what he deserved.

Also, I am in agreement with those that have said that we Americans should try to take the high road on these matters and show the rest of the world we are above the terrorists lunacy. Just my half cent......

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Had they not done a proper Muslim burial, and it gave further cause for the radical jihadists to kill innocent people, would it still be worth it not to give a proper Muslim burial?

Leon,

Obviously the answer is no. If the killing of OBL would bring an end to jihadists attacks, then it would absolutely be worth a proper Muslim burial. However, you and I (and the rest of this board) know that the respect we gave OBL will not do that.

They have never needed a reason to kill innocent people. What was their reason for 9/11? We can't live our lives in fear from the jihadists and keep kissing their ass. People think if we play nice, then they'll play nice. It just deosn't work that way.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Leon,

You asked a reasonable question and I gave you an answer. Now, I have a question for you (or anybody else that wants to answer). If some jihadist, after hearing the news about OBL, was planning a terrorist attack in retaliation, do you honestly think it matters one way or another in their mind whether we gave OBL a proper Muslim burial? Do you think that would change their mind?

[Ejm1]

Has anyone considered that the burial at sea story is just that, a story to cover the fact that the body is in the U.S. possession for further analysis.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Leon,

You asked a reasonable question and I gave you an answer. Now, I have a question for you (or anybody else that wants to answer). If some jihadist, after hearing the news about OBL, was planning a terrorist attack in retaliation, do you honestly think it matters one way or another in their mind whether we gave OBL a proper Muslim burial? Do you think that would change their mind?

Hornets will attack sometimes regardless of what we do. I prefer not to swat the nest. To each their own.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Leon,

You asked a reasonable question and I gave you an answer. Now, I have a question for you (or anybody else that wants to answer). If some jihadist, after hearing the news about OBL, was planning a terrorist attack in retaliation, do you honestly think it matters one way or another in their mind whether we gave OBL a proper Muslim burial? Do you think that would change their mind?

No, there is nothing we can do to change the mind of a jihadist who has it out for us...but that has nothing to do with whether or not we should give a proper burial..we are above them, we are civilized. Giving a proper burial demonstrates that.

edited to add: "Them" in my post above refers to terrorists, not Muslims.

[wonkaticket]

Can we at least confirm he wont be bidding on the scrap book on eBay?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

No, there is nothing we can do to change the mind of a jihadist who has it out for us...but that has nothing to do with whether or not we should give a proper burial..we are above them, we are civilized. Giving a proper burial demonstrates that.

Re-read post #54

Edited to add: Nevermind, you don't have to go back and re-read it. Let me post it again:

As a nation, when did we start respecting the burial customs of our enemies? We've killed tens of thousands of Muslims in the war on terror. Are you telling me that our government ensured that they each received a proper Muslim burial?

This was done for pure political reasons so that we would not ruffle any feathers in the Muslim world. Otherwise, why even announce how he was buried? Is it important?

And to anybody that thinks he deserved a proper Muslim burial, I have a question for you. Had we captured him alive instead, should he have received a proper Muslim trial?

[iwantitiwinit]

There is no single place on the face of this earth that I'd rather be than anywhere in the United States of America. Period.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Ejm1

Has anyone considered that the burial at sea story is just that, a story to cover the fact that the body is in the U.S. possession for further analysis.

Or that he's been dead for a while now, but nobody knows for sure, because nobody can find either him or a body.

Fake a raid and his death. Announce it to the world, and see if he comes out of the shadows. If he does, then we know he's still out there and we can play it off like the hoax was all part of the plan to find him. If nothing turns up, then call it confirmation of his death, keep it on the hush, and continue to pretend like they really did just kill him. The symbolism would keep America's hopes high.

Not that I really believe this, but anything's possible. I apologize if this theory offends anyone, but I just watched "Flags of our Fathers" the other day. So conspiracies of this sort are kind of fresh in my mind.. I'd prefer just going with what we've been told for now.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Can we at least confirm he wont be bidding on the scrap book on eBay?

Re-read post #44.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no issue with celebrating the death of a mass murderer. I have more of an issue with this serious thread devolving into sophomoric humor, as it appears to have done.

Where would Net54 would be without sophomoric humor? It'd be like rock n' roll without feedback.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hornets will attack sometimes regardless of what we do. I prefer not to swat the nest. To each their own.

When I see a hornets nest and it looks like they might attack, I don't try to appease them by donning a protective bee suit every time I want to go outside. I destroy the nest and keep destroying them every time more found more. I don't live my life in fear of hornets, but like you said, to each their own.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Re-read post #54

Edited to add: Nevermind, you don't have to go back and re-read it. Let me post it again:

As a nation, when did we start respecting the burial customs of our enemies? We've killed tens of thousands of Muslims in the war on terror. Are you telling me that our government ensured that they each received a proper Muslim burial?

This was done for pure political reasons so that we would not ruffle any feathers in the Muslim world. Otherwise, why even announce how he was buried? Is it important?

And to anybody that thinks he deserved a proper Muslim burial, I have a question for you. Had we captured him alive instead, should he have received a proper Muslim trial?

No trial. We know what he is. The world knows what he is. He get's what he got. The world is better off. The burial on the other hand is a different story. It wasn't about respect for him, but for the core of his religious beliefs and as a symbol to others that share in those beliefs... It's called humanity. Some justice was served in death and you leave it at that. In most religions, a non-proper burial is viewed as desecration and sacrilege. Here in the US, we are not in the business of supporting the defiling of dead bodies(which in many religions are viewed as a temple), and disrespecting the religious beliefs of others. For ANY reason.

[iwantitiwinit]

Today, assets of the United States killed Osama Bin Laden and took custody of his body. God Bless America!!

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

When I see a hornets nest and it looks like they might attack, I don't try to appease them by donning a protective bee suit every time I want to go outside. I destroy the nest and keep destroying them every time more found more. I don't live my life in fear of hornets, but like you said, to each their own.

You're right. You wouldn't don a protective bee suit, and you would destroy the nest. That much I can agree with. But you wouldn't destroy that nest and then taunt the other nests to "come get some".

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by novakjr

It wasn't about respect for him, but for the core of his religious beliefs and as a symbol to others that share in those beliefs...

David, I certainly understand what you are saying. Schilling's point was (and I agree), why do we have to comply with his religious beliefs when he didn't even adhere to those beliefs? True Muslims know that he perverted the beliefs of Islam for his own purposes.

Originally Posted by novakjr

Here in the US, we are not in the business of supporting the defiling of dead bodies(which in many religions are viewed as a temple), and disrespecting the religious beliefs of others. For ANY reason.

Nobody said we had to defile his body. The point was he did not deserve a Muslim burial because he did not adhere to the Muslim beliefs. I may be wrong, but I really think that devout Muslims would agree.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

David, I certainly understand what you are saying. Schilling's point was (and I agree), why do we have to comply with his religious beliefs when he didn't even adhere to those beliefs? True Muslims know that he perverted the beliefs of Islam for his own purposes.



Nobody said we had to defile his body. The point was he did not deserve a Muslim burial because he did not adhere to the Muslim beliefs. I may be wrong, but I really think that devout Muslims would agree.

Denying the body of a Muslim a proper Muslim burial is defiling it.. Whether deserved or not...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Denying the body of a Muslim a proper Muslim burial is defiling it.. Whether deserved or not...

He wasn't a Muslim. The fact that he identified himself as a Muslim doesn't make him a Muslim. He didn't adhere to Mulsim doctrine. Charles Manson said he was Jesus. Did you get down on your knees and worship him? No, his actions showed he is not Jesus just as OBL's actions prove he is not a Muslim. Period. End of story. You couldn't me more wrong on this matter.

[JeremyW]

I'm satisfied with the way things ended for Osama. If he had been taken alive it would have been a complete nightmare. He's gone & I'm very comfortable with that.

[calvindog]

We're better than those savage animals, period, whether we gave that pig a Muslim burial or not. I could care less what they did with his body as long as it was a dead body.

As for the handwringing over some celebration of UBL's death -- that's the first death that America has celebrated in 10 years -- and he killed 3000 innocent Americans. Muslims in the Middle East dance in the streets and hand out candy every time an American plane crashes, a head is cut off or Lara Logan is raped. Or when an entire Israeli family was murdered in Itamar -- including a 3 month old baby whose head was nearly severed with a knife. Lots of celebrating by Muslims then. Direct all consternation about gruesome displays of celebration to them, not us.

[howard38]

You asked a reasonable question and I gave you an answer. Now, I have a question for you (or anybody else that wants to answer). If some jihadist, after hearing the news about OBL, was planning a terrorist attack in retaliation, do you honestly think it matters one way or another in their mind whether we gave OBL a proper Muslim burial? Do you think that would change their mind?
__________________

It would not stop any planned attack but it would avoid riling up angry radical muslim idiots who would then form mobs and attack American or European citizens (because we are all the same to them), consulates, and/or embassies. It happens every time someone gets a speck of dust on the koran, draws a picture of allah or writes or says that islam just might not be the greatest religion ever.

Originally Posted by novakjr

99% of the people in this country(myself included) would've rather set the guy on fire and pissed it out over and over again until there was nothing left

+1

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by howard38

It would not stop any planned attack but it would avoid riling up angry radical muslim idiots who would then form mobs and attack American or European citizens...

I'm glad to know what we can do to prevent them from getting rilied up against us. Just curious though, what riled them up for the first World Trade Center attack, the U.S.S Cole attack or the 9/11 attacks, and what could we have done from riling them up all those times and prevented those attacks?

Edited to add: Why can't people just admit that there are bad people in this world who want to kill us and don't need any reason to get "riled up?"

[howard38]

.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm glad to know what we can do to prevent them from getting rilied up against us. Just curious though, what riled them up for the first World Trade Center attack, the U.S.S Cole attack or the 9/11 attacks, and what could we have done from riling them up all those times and prevented those attacks?

Edited to add: Why can't people just admit that there are bad people in this world who want to kill us and don't need any reason to get "riled up?"

Radical Islam is a cancer which needs to be eradicated. All the appeasement and all the Kumbaya by a bunch of pansies won't change that.

[gabrinus]

I see this as 100% positive thing. With Osama being dumped at sea, we don't have to worry about his gravesite becoming a site for religious pilgrims, etc. All the easier to forget him.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by calvindog

We're better than those savage animals, period, whether we gave that pig a Muslim burial or not. I could care less what they did with his body as long as it was a dead body.

As for the handwringing over some celebration of UBL's death -- that's the first death that America has celebrated in 10 years -- and he killed 3000 innocent Americans. Muslims in the Middle East dance in the streets and hand out candy every time an American plane crashes, a head is cut off or Lara Logan is raped. Or when an entire Israeli family was murdered in Itamar -- including a 3 month old baby whose head was nearly severed with a knife. Lots of celebrating by Muslims then. Direct all consternation about gruesome displays of celebration to them, not us.

Jeff,

With all due respect, I must take serious issue with your characterizing Bin Laden and his ilk as animals. That is an undue insult to my dog, man's' best friend and a noble creature.

Ken

[ceast]

There is nothing that the United States of America can do that will avoid riling up radical muslims who believe that America is the devil and that we all deserve to die. Absolutely nothing.

But the manner in which we conduct ourselves in the aftermath of events like killing Bin Laden will help avoid riling up MODERATE and PEACEFUL muslims. I just do not see any reason to help the bad guys recruit new members to their terrorist ranks.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

God bless America.

Ditto.

[Epps]

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

Ummmm, Obama did not kill anyone, the Commandos did and deserve 100% of the credit...

I agree. Obama did send the raid, but the Seals inside did all of the dirty work and put their lives on the line to kill Osama. About the burial, I think that it was to keep the Muslim people from getting upset. I agree with Curt on this one. We should not have treated this man like a true Muslim, when his actions showed otherwise. Home of the Brave and Land of the Free, God Bless America

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by calvindog

We're better than those savage animals, period, whether we gave that pig a Muslim burial or not. I could care less what they did with his body as long as it was a dead body.

As for the handwringing over some celebration of UBL's death -- that's the first death that America has celebrated in 10 years -- and he killed 3000 innocent Americans. Muslims in the Middle East dance in the streets and hand out candy every time an American plane crashes, a head is cut off or Lara Logan is raped. Or when an entire Israeli family was murdered in Itamar -- including a 3 month old baby whose head was nearly severed with a knife. Lots of celebrating by Muslims then. Direct all consternation about gruesome displays of celebration to them, not us.

Well said Jeff.

[wondo]

I flew out of Philadelphia this morning and was worried about new stringent procedures to avert retaliation. I was right to be concerned; the first class and priority flyers were not allowed a VIP line - they had to go in with the rest of us. No shit.

[prewarsports]

When did "OSAMA" Bin Lan becaome "USAMA" Bin Laden? All the media is calling him Usama with a "U" and for the last 10 years ++ I always saw it written with an "O". Is it because it looks too much like our President name when written with the O? Serious question, I am just curious why the change in spelling suddenly?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Both presidents deserve partial credit here. I'd say Bush more than Obama, but that's just my opinion.

And what an ill-informed one it is.

[Kenny Cole]

Peace. Let's not let dislike of Obama or Bush splinter us on the issue of giving "credit" for this. Bush put the machinery in motion, Obama continued the hunt and gave the order that finished it. In the interim, our intelligence people figured it out. Then our special forces did what they were trained to do and did it perfectly. Due to the efforts of lots of people, he's now dead. That fact alone means there is more than enough credit for all who were involved to share in. My $.02.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

When did "OSAMA" Bin Lan becaome "USAMA" Bin Laden? All the media is calling him Usama with a "U" and for the last 10 years ++ I always saw it written with an "O". Is it because it looks too much like our President name when written with the O? Serious question, I am just curious why the change in spelling suddenly?

The only outfit I've seen that uses the "U" is Fox News...they've used it for years which makes it even more ridiculous that they made the "Obama is dead" mistake on their crawl last night.

[wondo]

A bad man who should have been neutralized 15 years ago was finally killed. I feel no joy, no justice. His fate was sealed long ago.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

I hope they kept digital photos of the body before getting rid of it. You know, just to have a record of it.

This is one of the most bizarre things about this,,,,I would think one of the first things they would do is release photo's of the dead bin Laden. But they didn't, and when the homeland security guy was fielding questions in the news/press conference, and was asked about providing photo's,,the guy (forgot his name, Bennen?) turned sort of red in the face and stammered out a bunch of nonsense.

When we killed Sadaam's son Uday, they provided photo's of his dead body so everyone could see it was him and it was true. Same with when they captured Sadaam. They even used to do it with the old gangsters who were wanted dead or alive.

But here, they quickly dump his body in the ocean and don't release pictures? Am I the only one who finds this as odd?

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

And what an ill-informed one it is.

agreed

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

But here, they quickly dump his body in the ocean and don't release pictures? Am I the only one who finds this as odd?

No you are not. Thats some pretty messed up sh1t!!

I still really believe we will see photos and or video, of Bin Laden's dead body, in the coming days/weeks though.

[barrysloate]

As soon as the Seals killed him, they took a photograph which was uploaded and sent to a lab for identification (same as we do around here). The photo of his dead corpse is out there and will probably be made public soon.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

This is one of the most bizarre things about this,,,,I would think one of the first things they would do is release photo's of the dead bin Laden. But they didn't, and when the homeland security guy was fielding questions in the news/press conference, and was asked about providing photo's,,the guy (forgot his name, Bennen?) turned sort of red in the face and stammered out a bunch of nonsense.

When we killed Sadaam's son Uday, they provided photo's of his dead body so everyone could see it was him and it was true. Same with when they captured Sadaam. They even used to do it with the old gangsters who were wanted dead or alive.

But here, they quickly dump his body in the ocean and don't release pictures? Am I the only one who finds this as odd?

Whether you're talking T206 baseball cards or dead terrorists, it's just common sense to keep a photographic record to provide as proof down the line if requested (especially when you're making a claim that you can safely assume will be challenged). I bet in the case of this dead terrorist, the United States did just that.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Peace. Let's not let dislike of Obama or Bush splinter us on the issue of giving "credit" for this. Bush put the machinery in motion, Obama continued the hunt and gave the order that finished it. In the interim, our intelligence people figured it out. Then our special forces did what they were trained to do and did it perfectly. Due to the efforts of lots of people, he's now dead. That fact alone means there is more than enough credit for all who were involved to share in. My $.02.

I agree. Plus any Obama-haters should take solace in the fact that he has in essence become W Jr. in his prosecution of the existing wars, his maintaining of Gitmo, his continued use of renditions, his continued use of warrantless wiretapping, his continued use of military tribunals, etc. And he's actually gone further than Bush with his increased use of predator drone strikes in Pakistan and his start of a third war in Libya. If not for Obama breaking all of his promises NOT to continue all of these, UBL may never have been found. So the right wingers should go easy on Obama today.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

It’s a rather amazing military maneuver where they could storm a small fortress, apprehend the world’s most wanted man and escape with no causalities. Great job Navy SEALS!

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Whether you're talking T206 baseball cards or dead terrorists, it's just common sense to keep a photographic record to provide as proof down the line if requested (especially when you're making a claim that you can safely assume will be challenged). I bet in the case of this dead terrorist, the United States did just that.

"The team’s photos of bin Laden are gruesome, complicating officials’ deliberations about whether to release them.

Officials also have images of bin Laden in a white shroud before his burial at sea."