Need Help identifying Player + Series

[Archive]

Posted By: Mike

If anyone can tell me who the player is on the brown card and the issue, it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, what is a ballpark value of each card below? Thanks,

[Archive]

Posted By: JDRUM

The left card is a severely trimmed V100, Nielson's. The card on the right is an E card of some sort with Irv Young doing his best Cy imitation.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

DELETED

[Archive]

Posted By: Turner Engle

The Young is an E101; probably worth around $300-$400.

Turner E.

[Archive]

Posted By: brianp

The sepia toned card has been correctly identified as a trimmed V100, but it is Willards Chocolate, not Neilsons. I believe the player is William Killifer.

Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

V100 Willards Chocolate and an E101 anonymous are correct.

The V100 should have large borders around what you have there. Quite a bit of the card has been trimmed away.

The E101 looks authentic, although the wear on the edges looks slightly odd. I'd shine a black light on it to see if it fluoresces. A genuine E101 won't, a reprint will glow. $400 seems optimistic, $250 to $300 seems reasonable. Maybe less the way stuff's selling at present. I think it's a good looking card. Slab folks would be up in arms about the writing on the back.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Agreed on the id's. However, I don't really think this is Irv on the E101. Irv was left handed and this card looks like Cy is the correct, right handed. Many of the caramel issues look very little like the players they depict. best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob D.

Golly, I think most folks, whether they be of the slab variety or not, would take issue more with the "N" written to the left of Young's head than the writing on the reverse.

I know ... that wasn't the main point in the first place.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

On the E101, I think that the player that was intended to be depicted is Cy Young. That's what Egan contemplated, same with those that followed him with lists and guides, on to what we presently have. Cy.

And wolfie is right that folks wouldn't like that "N" on the front. I don't mind it, I still think it's a neat card.

[Archive]

Posted By: brianp

Perhaps the 'N' was written there to indicate the geographical orientation of the back of Mr. Young's head, which of course is still very useful information.

Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: JDRUM

Leon,
You may very well be right and that is Cy. I am not sure how anyone could determine if that was a rightie or leftie from that pose.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

It looks like a follow through with his right arm...but I do have to admit, the more I look at it, the more I feel it is an "Irv " profile. But the ears, that's it. The ears are not the same. The ears don't fit, you must acquit!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

doesn't look like Cy at all to me--wrong face and way too youthful. Maybe not a follow-through either; instead, he could be holding his right arm out to accept throw from catcher/fielder.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lyman

Mike, here is what the V100 Killifer card looks like with full borders. --Lyman

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I still think that Mr. Egan and his successors were right in thinking that that is Cy...

Cy played for Cleveland when E101s were being distributed.
Irv did not play for Cleveland.

So I still think that's a Cy Young card. Maybe someone else does, too...

Here's where they played when.

Irv Young

1903 Seattle Siwashes PCL
1903 Scaramento Senators PCL
1905-1908 Boston Doves
1908 Pittsburg Pirates
1909 Minneapolis Millers
1910-1911 Chicago White Sox
1912-1913 Minneapolis Millers
1913-1916 Milwaukee Brewers



Cy Young

1890-1898 Cleveland Spiders
1899-1900 St. Louis Perfectos/Cardinals
1901-1908 Boston Americans/Red Sox
1909-1911 Cleveland Naps
1911 Boston Red Sox
1912 Canton Statesmen

[Archive]

Posted By: JDRUM

I think it was very much intended to by Cy Young but I think the image/likeness is that of Irv. Happened more than once. But I also called a Willards a Neilsons, so who knows. It is one of those Cy Young cards that I wouldn't pay Cy Young money for.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

but it ain't him. Kind of like this card does not depict HOFer Bill Terry, but the 1928 ice cream and other sets say they do:

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Zeb Terry, a short stop and second baseman, played for...

1916-17 Chicago White Sox
1918 Boston Braves
1919 Pittsburgh Pirates
1920-1922 Chicago Cubs


Bill Terry, a pretty good first baseman, played for...

1923-1936 New York Giants


Todd, that Boston Store card is correct. I don't know about the ice cream cards from around 1928. But by 1928 Zeb is gone and Bill is there.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark

That card is for sure Zeb Terry

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

perhaps I was not clear. Of course that card depicts Zeb Terry--that was my point. Eleven years later you will find that same picture denominated Bill Terry on the ice cream sets-- I didn't scan one because I don't own one--I'll be damned if I'll pay HOF card money for a picture of a journeyman just because the typeset says he's someone else. No doubt these companies "intended" to depict the up and coming Bill Terry, not the fading fast from memory Zeb. So too with many of Cy Young's cards. It ain't him, regardless of good intentions.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

What I think Todd is trying to say is that the 1927-28 Ice Cream/York Caramel cards that supposedly depict Bill Terry depict an old picture of Zeb.
-Rhett

Edited to add Todd clarified himself while I was typing my message

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

to the original poster and Frank, I do believe it is checklisted as Cy Young, and perhaps correctly so given the career status of Irv. Thus many will pay HOF money for that card. I'm just saying it looks as much like Steve Young as it does Cy.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mike Q

This thread is a fine example of what makes this board so great.

Thank you to all who have responded, I really appreciate the information. Regards, Mike

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Frank is right....the E101 card is definitely CYoung.

It is the identical picture first printed in the American Caramel (E90-1) set's scarce series that was issued in
early 1910. The E101's, like the E92's and other subsequent E-Type set's (and the T216's), were all printed
at the same printing firm (Philadelphia area) as the E90-1 cards.


TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

As we've discussed in previous threads, many artists were used to draw the likenesses of the players, and some were clearly more skilled than others. Check out, for example, the difference in quality between the two T206 poses of Walter Johnson, or the superiority of the Cobb bat off versus the bat on version. In the case of this E101 Young, just a poorly rendered likeness. If you only saw the depiction without the name below, there is no way you could guess it was Young.

[Archive]

Posted By: JDRUM

Cy, Irv or Steve, neat card it just doesn't "look" like Cy even thought it was most likely intended to be him. I think I will apply Leon's "ears" test and draw my conclusion.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I have as much to gain as anyone and think these will continue to be sold as Cy and get Cy prices....but that E101 profile looks a heck of a lot like this Irv to me...

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Leon, I agree that in looking at that photo it looks more like Irv.
But that card says "Cy Young", not "Young", which is ever so slightly
different.

Barry makes a good point about different artists. One day I intend to
dig up images of Harry Camnitz and Red Camnitz, to try to figure out if
both are depicted in the white border tobacco set, or only one of them.
But that is for another thread and another day...

For today, given the great differences in the drawings of the two
Johnson cards, are there any collectors out there who do collect the
portrait card but don't collect the 'ready to pitch' card because the
latter isn't or may not be Walter Johnson?

I know that the card has Johnson and Washington on it, and that there
was only 1 Johnson on the roster that year, Walter. But there were 44
guys playing that year, the card could well be of someone else. Anyone
not collect that pose for that reason??

[Archive]

Posted By: JDRUM

It is entirely possible that the "artist" used an incorrect photo for his drawing as well. All I will say is that if he was actually working from a real picture of Cy Young and then rendered the drawing that became the E101, I hope he was working pro bono.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark

I did try to find an Irv Young profie, but could not. Based on what I could find, I do agree with Leon and jdrum.