NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:47 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
The one over on the postwar side that graded an 8 but had a corner that layered and folded over, supposedly during slabbing. Which PSA folded back and reslabbed, still as an 8. That would be a good start.

In that case, PSA was both the doctor and slabber.


And the response was pretty much crickets.
You mean the conservator.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:48 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

I don't know the Taylor postcards well, but unless they're typically cut with one end much narrower than the other that shouldn't be a 7 or any other numerical grade.

But PSA is the best because they sell for more!

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Exhibits A-C as to why I'm doing business with PSA:







I paid about 11K total for these three cards. Grading fees were less than $100. What are they worth now?
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:10 PM
jchcollins's Avatar
jchcollins jchcollins is offline
J0hn Collin$
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 3,223
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinMike View Post
What evidence do you have that it is the policy of PSA to "KNOWINGLY" assign a number grade to "doctored" cards? (It's okay to grade "doctored" cards as long as you "grade" them as altered.)
If you take PSA at their word, their founder Mr. Hall was not competent enough to "KNOWINGLY" call the Gretzky Wagner altered. Because he didn't know. Really, I'm sure he didn't...
__________________
Postwar vintage stars & HOF'ers.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:20 PM
Goudey77's Avatar
Goudey77 Goudey77 is offline
Martin
Martin L.ee
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Northwest
Posts: 429
Default General handling.

You know in theory all cards that are handled will intercept the oils and residue that comes with human hand contact. Same goes for coins. So all cards have foreign residue and oil or print marks from these transactions. Just saying if you want to get really technical this topic will never end.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:29 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Email blast from PWCC. Touting the altered Mantle. Funny, not a word about conservation. I guess the tenets will only apply prospectively?

Baseball 1949-1953 Highlights
Closing Today: 6-9pm PST
__________________________________________________ _




A glowing and altogether stunning '52 Topps Mickey Mantle for the grade. We love this card as it lights up the room, boasting unquestionably NM-MT surfaces with pristine clarity, near flawless print and vivid color. By far the cleanest and brightest copy we've brokered in years (including many which grade higher than the offered PSA 4.5). Perhaps what's most impressive about this shockingly beautiful card is the centering. Virtually 50-50 from every angle; an extremely rare quality for the condition sensitive kick-start to the ultra difficult high-number series. Boasts clean white borders with crisp edges and card stock void of any wrinkles. Extremely modest corner wear to the right two are all that accounts for the harsh assessment.

This card would not be questioned for a second in a PSA 5 or even 5.5 holder. The '52 Topps Mantle is the most important post-war trading card in existence and seldom seen on the market with such exceptional overall eye appeal. Most educated investors appreciate that a card's eye appeal can fluctuate considerably within a single grade, and we are excited to label this example as being in the upper echelon of our quality spectrum. Comes with our highest recommendation.

Closes Today @ 8:09pm PST
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-09-2019 at 01:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:31 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Email blast from PWCC. Touting the altered Mantle. Funny, not a word about conservation. I guess the tenets will only apply prospectively?

Baseball 1949-1953 Highlights
Closing Today: 6-9pm PST
__________________________________________________ _




A glowing and altogether stunning '52 Topps Mickey Mantle for the grade. We love this card as it lights up the room, boasting unquestionably NM-MT surfaces with pristine clarity, near flawless print and vivid color. By far the cleanest and brightest copy we've brokered in years (including many which grade higher than the offered PSA 4.5). Perhaps what's most impressive about this shockingly beautiful card is the centering. Virtually 50-50 from every angle; an extremely rare quality for the condition sensitive kick-start to the ultra difficult high-number series. Boasts clean white borders with crisp edges and card stock void of any wrinkles. Extremely modest corner wear to the right two are all that accounts for the harsh assessment.

This card would not be questioned for a second in a PSA 5 or even 5.5 holder. The '52 Topps Mantle is the most important post-war trading card in existence and seldom seen on the market with such exceptional overall eye appeal. Most educated investors appreciate that a card's eye appeal can fluctuate considerably within a single grade, and we are excited to label this example as being in the upper echelon of our quality spectrum. Comes with our highest recommendation.

Closes Today @ 8:09pm PST
just got that...I unsubscribed.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:49 PM
AGuinness's Avatar
AGuinness AGuinness is offline
Garth Guibord
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Please name one seller who does disclose? How can you know who doesn't so as to avoid them?
This thread has gone off the rails in other ways already, and while I typically don't like tangents, I'll indulge on this because it offers an opportunity to highlight a good seller (and add a photo of a card). I've bought from a number of people on this board and had great experiences so far, including the card below, purchased from mybuddyinc. He noted that it had to be trimmed (it is still raw in my collection, I may get it slabbed at some point).
As for those who don't disclose, I'm sure you can peruse some of the threads offering tales of purchases gone wrong, bad experiences and find out some of the sellers out there to avoid.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Stahl.jpg (75.9 KB, 478 views)
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:49 PM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,466
Default

As the resident museum person here, who is professionally certified in museum sciences, I can say that the original OP post is very problematic-- though I won't take the time to say why.

I will, however, say that conservation and restoration are kinds of alteration. That's not a comment on if they good or bad, ethical or unethical, just that they are alteration. Cataloging them as not comes across to me as trickery.

Also, if there is nothing errant or wrong with conserving or restoring a card, and it shouldn't effect the market value, then you should not have an issue with disclosing that it's been conserved. If one says there's nothing material about, say, conservation and it shouldn't/won't effect market value, but bends over backwards not to disclose it, that speaks for itself that the person doesn't believe what he is saying. I do not know, and am not claiming to know the purpose. However, If this all a method to hide from bidders and buyers the presence of conservation or restoration or other alterations, it's wrong, and, while I'm not a lawyer and will dutifully defer to the lawyers here, might be illegal.

Last edited by drcy; 05-09-2019 at 02:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:56 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuinness View Post
This thread has gone off the rails in other ways already, and while I typically don't like tangents, I'll indulge on this because it offers an opportunity to highlight a good seller (and add a photo of a card). I've bought from a number of people on this board and had great experiences so far, including the card below, purchased from mybuddyinc. He noted that it had to be trimmed (it is still raw in my collection, I may get it slabbed at some point).
As for those who don't disclose, I'm sure you can peruse some of the threads offering tales of purchases gone wrong, bad experiences and find out some of the sellers out there to avoid.
I have a pretty good idea who to avoid at this point, and always willing to learn more, but my point is your stated standard -- I won't buy from anyone who doesn't disclose -- is not practical because you have no way of knowing who has something to disclose but isn't. And if you're only going to buy from people who have affirmatively disclosed something, that's an awful small universe.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-09-2019 at 01:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 05-09-2019, 02:03 PM
AGuinness's Avatar
AGuinness AGuinness is offline
Garth Guibord
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I have a pretty good idea who to avoid at this point, and always willing to learn more, but my point is your stated standard -- I won't buy from anyone who doesn't disclose -- is not practical because you have no way of knowing who has something to disclose but isn't. And if you're only going to buy from people who have affirmatively disclosed something, that's an awful small universe.
At the same time, one should be willing to give sellers the benefit of the doubt and a chance to do their job honorably. There are people I won't buy from for a number of reasons, some from my experiences with them (non-disclosure or otherwise) and others from the experiences I've read about from others who have posted here.
If PWCC's tenets do not address disclosure of alterations, conservation or whatnot, or if the tenets note that disclosure will not be performed on some at their discretion, that makes things pretty easy as far as I'm concerned.
And I'm fine with an awful small universe, if that what it ends up being. I'm not going to be a slave to buying cards regardless of their sources.
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 05-09-2019, 02:12 PM
jchcollins's Avatar
jchcollins jchcollins is offline
J0hn Collin$
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 3,223
Default

I read most posts, skimmed some, and boy howdy was this was an exhausting thread. Following the OP, we went sarcastic-pissed, then off on extreme legal tangents, and then (I think) actually got back around to talking about grading and alterations.

For what it's worth I will attempt to give my thoughts sans sarcasm, since I don't really have any personal experiences which sting. I've bought from PWCC before, but don't have any particular grudge against them for selling altered cards or dealing with shady consignors or anything like that.

For what it's worth I do think the "Conservation" (tongue-in-cheek) argument is interesting, but as many others have already pointed out - the hobby at large more or less set the bar there years ago, regardless of what PWCC does or does not decide to do for their limited marketplace.

Me personally, I've always been intrigued by the prejudice which seems to be accorded to cards assumed to be altered (trimming, obvious recoloration, etc.) vs. "honest wear" because - yes for some, at least a good deal of the time you can kind of tell - but if you weren't there to personally see how each card got it's wear, how do you really know definitively? You don't. That being said, cards upon which no dishonest work can be physically detected don't bother me. I think it should be left to TPG's and who you personally do or do not trust as to whether or not you believe their opinion on the state of alteration on the card or lack thereof is valid. All of the big TPG's make mistakes. Some think that at least one company among them is knowingly dishonest. All of it comes back around to are YOU happy with the particular example of the particular card, or does it mean more to you what PSA, SGC, BVG, (and then perhaps further qualifed by PWCC) have said or insinuated about the card or not? Because as we all know, what they grade or say is apt to be wildly different even if you submit the same card to each of them.

I've always maintained that it's absurd to think that some "professional" graders can have a valid opinion over and above some veteran hobbyists who have 30-50 or more years in looking at and evaluating vintage cards. At the end of the day what you can get comfortable with is all that matters. I don't particularly care one way or the other about graded cards - I think on the whole it is helpful to buy them that way online so as not to risk getting a creased card that is described as "Excellent" and things like that, but at the end of the day - ALL of this, even down to what PWCC wants to further cloud judgment with, purple stickers and altered vs. conserved, etc. etc. is really just opinion. There never will be a silver bullet for it, unless someone invents a time machine and we can go back and observe the whole, complete and unedited timeline provenance for every single existing baseball card in every collection today. Which of course ain't happening. I think what PWCC is propsing is pretty useless based on the fact that when it comes down to it - there is no way to be 100% certain about anything. Will it soothe collectors / investors already basically willing to look the other way into an easier false sense of security? Sure, and that's unfortunate for those of us who do care. But all of us here today reading this like / enjoy collecting vintage cards at least enough to be ~5% or more unsure about their true state of preservation. If we are being honest, how much leeway is really there - is it that - or more? Because as with just about everything, you can never really know 100% for sure. Taking the technical approach, as someone pointed out earlier - at some point gets so detailed as to be absurd and not consistent with the reasons people collect in the first place. I will be interested to see how much traction tactics like that can get...
__________________
Postwar vintage stars & HOF'ers.

Last edited by jchcollins; 05-13-2019 at 10:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 05-09-2019, 02:17 PM
jchcollins's Avatar
jchcollins jchcollins is offline
J0hn Collin$
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 3,223
Default

Caveat to my post above - if you are talking about the Vintage Breaks guys or whatever and you have a pack that is graded and most people agree is authentic unopened - THEN that card going directly to PSA at a show is likely to have a much clearer provenance trail, isn't it? But is it FOR SURE? LOL. See what I've done here? I've created my own tangent.
__________________
Postwar vintage stars & HOF'ers.

Last edited by jchcollins; 05-09-2019 at 02:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 05-09-2019, 02:54 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Please name one seller who does disclose?
Raises hand.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!

and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions

Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 05-09-2019 at 02:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 05-09-2019, 03:00 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
What if it's the jawbone's job to smite the Philistines? Does that make Brent guilty?

I'll wait.
I gave up smoting years ago.

"Anyone really care what some freaking hayseed in Oregon thinks about cards?"

Ted, best line of the year.

A Lord on high at one of the TPGs admitted to me years ago that they are all aware that cards are being altered but that they cannot detect a good job of removing a foreign substance from a card. Light erasures, soakings, etc., it has been going on ever since TPGs started minting money for their customers based on the perceived grade of the card and it is not going to stop.

No one is going to be swayed by anything said here. The fans of PWCC and those who don't care what happened to get a card into a TPG holder have their beliefs and nothing rational will shake them.

DRCY writes: "If this all a method to hide from bidders and buyers the presence of conservation or restoration or other alterations, it's wrong"

I view it as more of an effort to shift concern away from criticism of the piss-poor job the TPGs have done on delivering on their promises of no alterations getting through their sieves. PWCC's entire business rests on two concepts: the TPG-encapsulated cards are what they are and as long as they have the right capsules around them the cards themselves are basically interchangeable commodities. Well, we know that the TPGs are missing all sorts of stuff: fake signatures, trimmed cards, cleaned cards, etc. So what can you do in the face of the evidence? Change the discussion or change the parameters of what you define as a wrongful alteration. The discussion itself ain't gonna change, so the OP is just a way of trying to sell us on the idea that even if the PSA or BGS slab has a card that has had one of these procedures, like a bath and cleaning, that's fine because it merely brought the card back towards its original state and the TPG then blessed it. So what if it went from a 4 to a 7 and the person who rode that train will make a fortune?

It's bulls**t of the highest order tossed out there to keep the gravy train rolling.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...

Last edited by Exhibitman; 05-09-2019 at 03:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 05-09-2019, 05:21 PM
Bigdaddy's Avatar
Bigdaddy Bigdaddy is offline
+0m J()rd@N
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 1,823
Default

So should I feel bad about wiping wax stains off of my 1970s Topps cards with my shirt-tail?

And should I disclose the deed? It may not warrant a numerical bump by a TPG, but it could eliminate the dreaded (ST) qualifier.

BTW, thank you BLong for putting some of the pieces together and shedding more light on all of this. Much like the college admissions scandal, I'm a bit disheartened, but not surprised.
__________________
Working Sets:
Baseball-
T206 SLers - Virginia League (-2)
1952 Topps - low numbers (-1)
1954 Bowman (-5)
1964 Topps Giants auto'd (-2)

Last edited by Bigdaddy; 05-09-2019 at 05:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 05-09-2019, 05:58 PM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 7,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
So should I feel bad about wiping wax stains off of my 1970s Topps cards with my shirt-tail?

And should I disclose the deed? It may not warrant a numerical bump by a TPG, but it could eliminate the dreaded (ST) qualifier.

BTW, thank you BLong for putting some of the pieces together and shedding more light on all of this. Much like the college admissions scandal, I'm a bit disheartened, but not surprised.
Shirt-tail wax removal isn’t woke. I’ve always thought panty-hose wax removal was the preferred technique. Then again I fully realize that everyone with shirt tails does not wear panty-hose. To make matters worse the Untuckit shirts eliminate the shirt tail alternative. The future should see a bump in panty-hose sales for this reason.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER.

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES


274/1000 Monster Number


Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-24.
Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served.
If you want fries with your order, just speak up.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 05-09-2019, 06:42 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

and in recent news:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxQhjthHUpr/
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:11 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
Funny how they get the same reaction everywhere.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:12 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Funny how they get the same reaction everywhere.
right! apparently noone cares!
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:13 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,297
Default

Conserve - protect (something, especially an environmentally or culturally important place or thing) from harm or destruction.

Restore - repair or renovate (a building, work of art, vehicle, etc.) so as to return it to its original condition.

Alter - change or cause to change in character or composition, typically in a comparatively small but significant way.

Oddly after a lot of digging I found there already ARE definitions for these words. It took seconds of mind-bending labor, but I found them.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!

and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:13 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
right! apparently noone cares!
No, they got ripped, look at the comments on the link you posted.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:15 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

well that's good...but doesn't seem to be affecting bidding on their auctions!
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:15 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
well that's good...but doesn't seem to be affecting bidding on their auctions!
Of course not. The Mantle doubtless will go for a world record.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:19 PM
Dpeck100's Avatar
Dpeck100 Dpeck100 is offline
David Peck
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Of course not. The Mantle doubtless will go for a world record.
CLCT broke out to a new 52 week too.

https://www.stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=clct


This isn't going to slow either down anytime soon.
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:20 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 View Post
CLCT broke out to a new 52 week too.

https://www.stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=clct


This isn't going to slow either down anytime soon.
I just had to laugh at the guys on Blowout talking about shorting it, I mean come on how naïve.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:22 PM
Dpeck100's Avatar
Dpeck100 Dpeck100 is offline
David Peck
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I just had to laugh at the guys on Blowout talking about shorting it, I mean come on how naïve.
They better be careful. This is a low float stock that has no liquidity.

If someone smells blood they could destroy some shorts in this stock.
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:24 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 View Post
They better be careful. This is a low float stock that has no liquidity.

If someone smells blood they could destroy some shorts in this stock.
More likely just a few giddy millenials drunk on their own perception of their influence, who are just yapping.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-09-2019 at 07:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:25 PM
Dpeck100's Avatar
Dpeck100 Dpeck100 is offline
David Peck
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
More likely just a few giddy millenials drunk on their own perception of their influence.
Haha

Yep.

Virtue signaling shorting.

The make believe kind.
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:35 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

58K for the Mantle asset.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 05-10-2019, 04:54 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
T3d $h3rm@n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
58K for the Mantle asset.
Someone hoping PSA buys it back? Or will it be relisted
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" ©

Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors
Reply With Quote
  #181  
Old 05-10-2019, 05:02 AM
111gecko 111gecko is offline
G.ary L.eavitt
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 370
Default Mantle

Or is it even paid for as a “true” sale..?
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 05-10-2019, 06:13 AM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Someone hoping PSA buys it back? Or will it be relisted
Who cares? Brent put a sticker on it. The card is “exceptional” for its grade. Of course it had to be altered to get there but who cares considering how hard he’s working to improve the hobby.
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 05-10-2019, 06:26 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
T3d $h3rm@n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Who cares? Brent put a sticker on it. The card is “exceptional” for its grade. Of course it had to be altered to get there but who cares considering how hard he’s working to improve the hobby.
"(With more alterations) it could be a 5 or 5.5"


Hey Jeff, how many times have you spoken with Peter Nash? Just curious, I'm keeping tabs on many times people talk to each other for a list character witnesses during the trial.

This will be bigger than "steroids in baseball" government investigation. The smokescreen while the housing market (fraud) was taking place.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" ©

Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 05-10-2019, 06:30 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Who cares? Brent put a sticker on it. The card is “exceptional” for its grade. Of course it had to be altered to get there but who cares considering how hard he’s working to improve the hobby.
Sales tax on that asset could add quite a bit to the price. Oh wait...
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 05-10-2019, 06:34 AM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Sales tax on that asset could add quite a bit to the price. Oh wait...
Evading taxes — more good for the hobby. Won’t raise a red flag at all and surely there will be no audits.
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:39 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 View Post
This is a low float stock that has no liquidity.

If someone smells blood they could destroy some shorts in this stock.
I read and write pretty good but I don’t understand either of these sentences. Something to do with urine and pants?
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...

Last edited by Exhibitman; 05-10-2019 at 07:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:12 AM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 7,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
I read and write pretty good but I don’t understand either of these sentences. Something to do with urine and pants?
Just look up the differential diagnosis of hematuria associated with renal failure, Adam.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER.

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES


274/1000 Monster Number


Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-24.
Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served.
If you want fries with your order, just speak up.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:23 AM
Dpeck100's Avatar
Dpeck100 Dpeck100 is offline
David Peck
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
I read and write pretty good but I don’t understand either of these sentences. Something to do with urine and pants?
CLCT is a very illiquid stock. It only trades on average just over 55,000 shares a day. The current short position is only 38,570 shares as of the last update so roughly two thirds of the daily average volume. That said there are days where this stock has only traded 13,000 shares.

This is a very small short position but if someone tried to put on a much larger short position and then a fund decided to put heavy buying pressure on the stock they could make it sky rocket and create a very serious short squeeze.

If you look at the stock right now the bid and ask are only showing 200 shares on each so the largest market order you can use and get the inside bid or ask is 200 shares. Nothing. To put that in perspective if you wanted to buy GE you could use a market order and get 45,000 shares.

Low float stocks that are heavily shorted are prime targets to try and manipulate higher with constant buying pressure. When a stock is sold short it represents pent up demand because the only way to exit the position is through a buy order. If someone is pressing it higher the shorts begin to lose and at some point just like in MMA they tap out and have no choice but to buy further exacerbating the scenario. Short squeezes can be violent.

Moral of the story a terrible stock to short because you can't get in or out easily. Even if one doesn't like a company they need to look at the short interest and trading volume to get a feel if it is a good short candidate and CLCT isn't.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:27 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

You would have better insight than I, but it doesn't seem like a great stock to go long either.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:34 AM
Dpeck100's Avatar
Dpeck100 Dpeck100 is offline
David Peck
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
You would have better insight than I, but it doesn't seem like a great stock to go long either.
Hard to say. Roughly two thirds of the company is their coin division and that has been soft. If you read the recent report it seems to be picking up some. Their card and autograph division is what is carrying the company.

It looks to me like it is running back up to the the top of the gap of $21.63 from February 7th last year. If it gets above that it could have legs.

The stock got hammered in the fourth quarter last year on general market weakness and heavy tax loss selling but I am not a fan personally of buying a stock that has doubled in five months.

Regardless this issue that has created many to be upset isn't going to change the direction of PSA.
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:47 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 View Post
Hard to say. Roughly two thirds of the company is their coin division and that has been soft. If you read the recent report it seems to be picking up some. Their card and autograph division is what is carrying the company.

It looks to me like it is running back up to the the top of the gap of $21.63 from February 7th last year. If it gets above that it could have legs.

The stock got hammered in the fourth quarter last year on general market weakness and heavy tax loss selling but I am not a fan personally of buying a stock that has doubled in five months.

Regardless this issue that has created many to be upset isn't going to change the direction of PSA.
I guess people keep grading the new bullion coins although I can't imagine why as even the MS70s don't seem to bring much of a premium, unlike PSA 10s of current cards.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:50 AM
TMKenKen TMKenKen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuinness View Post
This thread has gone off the rails in other ways already, and while I typically don't like tangents, I'll indulge on this because it offers an opportunity to highlight a good seller (and add a photo of a card). I've bought from a number of people on this board and had great experiences so far, including the card below, purchased from mybuddyinc. He noted that it had to be trimmed (it is still raw in my collection, I may get it slabbed at some point).
As for those who don't disclose, I'm sure you can peruse some of the threads offering tales of purchases gone wrong, bad experiences and find out some of the sellers out there to avoid.
I joined this site about 7 years or so ago. Scarcely comment, but always follow the forum. I have made a few purchases from other here, including Leon from whom I bought a few items shortly after joining. Unsolicited he disclosed the condition about each item, including that the item had been altered. That let me know that I could trust those here. This debate and the emphasis on disclosure lets me continue to believe that this is the right place to be. Thanks to all for that!
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:50 AM
Dpeck100's Avatar
Dpeck100 Dpeck100 is offline
David Peck
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I guess people keep grading the new bullion coins although I can't imagine why as even the MS70s don't seem to bring much of a premium, unlike PSA 10s of current cards.

From their press release.


Part of the growth in PCGS Bulk was aided by a successful Apollo 11 coin-grading program that generated thousands of these popular commemorative coins for submission. The creative packaging designed by the PCGS team helped raise our Q3 Bulk ASP over last year's ASP.



"The PSA and PSA/DNA business set another all-time revenue quarterly record for the division and eclipsed last year's Q3 revenue by roughly $1.3 million, a 24% increase year-over-year. Based on the first three quarters of fiscal 2019, this part of our company is expected to close out its ninth consecutive year of top and bottom line growth. The PSA backlog remains at record levels heading into Q4. The Company is currently revamping our existing space to expand operational capacity, so we can ultimately improve the extended turnaround times facing our customers."
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 05-11-2019, 10:27 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,044
Default

Suuuuure they are. Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:20 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=684
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:27 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
WOW! Thank god for PWWC and PSA for that matter for helping to bring such great cards to market!
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:29 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
WOW! Thank god for PWWC and PSA for that matter for helping to bring such great cards to market!
And doing good things for the hobby?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:41 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,266
Default

On a roll on BO.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=691
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 05-12-2019, 04:16 AM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
And doing good things for the hobby?
Their charm offensive didn’t last very long did it? Back to the drawing board!
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 05-12-2019, 06:02 AM
benjulmag benjulmag is offline
CoreyRS.hanus
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 750
Default My 2 cents

Ideal World

1. There is full disclosure of what was done to the card, without any pretense to give such "work" a definition.

2. The sole purpose of a slab is to opine that the card is authentic and to describe what was done to the card without concluding whether such work fits into the category of conservation or alteration, and that all numerical grades will be eliminated.

Real World

1. People buy the slab, and once it is slabbed, what was done to the card becomes irrelevant.

2. IMO all T206 10's have been trimmed.

3. IMO the overwhelming majority of T206 8's and 9's have been worked on.

4. The cover card of the hobby has been trimmed and would grade an "A" if taken out of the slab and resubmitted.

5. To my knowledge, the founder of PSA has not recanted his view that because he is one of the very few people who has seen said cover card out of the slab, his opinion that the card was not trimmed is correct, regardless that the person who trimmed the card has admitted such and went to prison in part because of such admission.

6. To almost everyone in this hobby, points 2, 3, 4 and 5 are irrelevant.

7. This entire discussion of "altered" versus "conserved" as a practical matter is irrelevant because regardless what one calls it, if the card gets slabbed with a numerical grade, mission accomplished -- to most people in this hobby the end justifies the means.

8. The notion of paying multiples more for a 10 than a 9 is my definition of insanity.

9. That PWCC came into being with its business model was inevitable.

10. At some future point PWCC's business model will be looked upon with the same awe and respect that PSA's set registry now is.

Conclusion

1. I feel very fortunate I got started in the hobby when cards had no value, which allows me to continue to collect as a hobby and for fun.

2. It felt good to vent.

Last edited by benjulmag; 05-12-2019 at 06:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Show your conservation/restoration projects aquarius31 Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 30 04-21-2020 08:26 PM
Addiction defined Edward Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 21 07-25-2018 07:40 AM
History of Cuban Baseball Book and Paper conservation question Jason19th Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 8 05-03-2009 03:07 PM
Card Alteration Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 4 12-10-2006 06:49 PM
Question about card alteration Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 10-24-2006 05:12 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:28 PM.


ebay GSB