Who is the biggest culprit?

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

IMO, it is the card companies for pricing the modern packs to where kids can't afford them.

nah, there still are plenty of packs that can be bought for a buck or two. Kids just don't care about cards, nothing exciting about them for kids nowadays with the internet, i-pads, video games, portable video games, smart phones, etc.


technology has killed kids collecting cards

[bcbgcbrcb]

Agree with Bilko

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

nah, there still are plenty of packs that can be bought for a buck or two. Kids just don't care about cards, nothing exciting about them for kids nowadays with the internet, i-pads, video games, portable video games, smart phones.

Ill go with a disagree here. I started collecting in 1984, NES was introduced in 1986 and I had time for both. Eventually the video games won, but it sounds like most of us put the cards down around 14-16 for a few years anyway.
Packs should be 50 cents each with 15-20 cards in them and MLB should subsidize the cost if necessary. The future to ANYTHING is children, not middle-aged men. Cards introduce the sport unlike anything else. The other big thing is 9pm playoff games? They need to be earlier so kids can watch and see them end!

[Exhibitman]

It is inaccurate IMO to think of the card collecting public as one market. I see three: vintage [pre WWII], boomer [1945-1980] and modern, and each reacts very differently to various things.

For me, two things have greatly diminished my interest in vintage and boomer era cards: prices and grading. I am unable to purchase many of the vintage cards I want--simply cannot afford them. That kills my interest in collecting many of the mainstay issues. On boomer era cards, I am so turned off by the TPG thing and resulting astronomical prices for minute and usually undetectable differences between cards that my interest has fallen off dramatically.

[dog*dirt]

[QUOTE=Exhibitman;957763]It is inaccurate IMO to think of the card collecting public as one market. I see three: vintage [pre WWII], boomer [1945-1980] and modern, and each reacts very differently to various things.



I agree that there really is a few different markets. Modern card collecting is like playing the lottery with the marketing geared toward finding that great pull from a pack. I find that locally a lot of post war collectors are still out there and really seem to enjoy the hobby which is nice to see even though these cards do not appeal to me for the most part.

[vintagechris]

I think technology. When I was growing up, you got your info on players from the backs of cards. That's how you learned about them. Now it is the internet.

Plus back then, there was a lot less things to do. You had to be creative. Now with technology, people are creative for you.

[alanu]

I would say technology in the sense that when I was growing up in the late 60's the only way you could really get cards was by opening a pack or trading for them.

Today, with ebay and the auction houses, just about any card is available if you have enough money... the point being, cards are available like any other consumer good, you just have to have enough money to pay for them.

[barrysloate]

This is a good question and a complicated one, and it's not possible to isolate a single event or two as the cause for the hobby's decline.

I certainly wouldn't blame the price guides, because it's a fluid hobby and the marketplace ultimately determines prices . Rare cards always sell for more than common ones, Babe Ruth always sells for more than Joe Schmo, pristine cards always sell for more than beat up ones. Over time, given enough transactions, the more desirable cards will always rise to the top.

Third party grading is somewhat of a factor. With the goal of helping the collector solve problems, it at the same time created a host of new problems. Certainly it caused a huge spike in the price of high grade cards, putting them out of reach of most collectors. But TPG is not the reason for the hobby's decline.

If I wanted to simplify the answer and pick a couple of causes, I would say it's a combination of a very poor economy, and the maturing of baseball card collecting. In the 1970's, baseball cards were a well kept secret that only a small group knew about. As publicity brought droves of new collectors into the hobby, it grew in leaps and bounds. But no industry can grow forever, and ours eventually reached its saturation point. While there are always new collectors coming in, we've now reached the point where alot of collectors are getting older, or losing interest, and dropping out. The net result is there really isn't enough growth anymore.

And while the economy may get better one day (I'm not holding my breath), the rapid growth that we experienced from roughly the 1970's to the 1990's is over forever. We are likely to see prices more stable, without huge increases, and there is a distinct possibility we will even see the industry get smaller. I guess we'll have to stick around to find out.

[Bicem]

the widespread fraud hasn't helped!

[Chris Counts]

What decline? Not only is the hobby way bigger than it was when I started in the early 70s, but I'm having more fun than ever ...

[sandmountainslim]

I was born in 1970 so I experienced the "overflooding" as a teenager and remember friends buying box after box of Topps sets in the eighties for "collector value" and then when Upper Deck came out it was shitbox crazy! More unopened packs than OPENED packs. That completely turned me off of modern cards and shaped how I collect. I have no interest in any card made post-1952 unless it's a reprint set of an earlier release. I do LOVE baseball itself though and so do many people....I am sure Fantasy Baseball has helped the game become more popular nowadays.

[Jason]

I have to say the technology as well.There is just to much for kids to do nowadays to focus on any one hobby.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Ill go with a disagree here. I started collecting in 1984, NES was introduced in 1986 and I had time for both. Eventually the video games won, but it sounds like most of us put the cards down around 14-16 for a few years anyway.
Packs should be 50 cents each with 15-20 cards in them and MLB should subsidize the cost if necessary. The future to ANYTHING is children, not middle-aged men. Cards introduce the sport unlike anything else. The other big thing is 9pm playoff games? They need to be earlier so kids can watch and see them end!

Every year a card company tries to "go back to the roots" and issues a low-end 50 cents-$1 product with multiple cards and every year it fails. Kids aren't dumb. If they are one of the very few who are inclined toward cardboard, they certainly will want to buy something with possibilities. Baseball has lost its luster (thanks Selig). Those who still collect are more apt for something that is the new national pastime (the NFL). Upper Deck is starting to produce college football cards which I think could be a brilliant idea if done right. Kids are just done with MLB and I don't blame them.

[ullmandds]

While the price guides...and the card companies can be blamed for setting values...and for overproducing and creating rarities and chase cards...the real culprits are those who deceive, cheat, steal and take advantage of unsuspecting collectors/"investors" for financial gain...these are the hoodlums who have helped to wreck this hobby!

[ChiefBenderForever]

Collectors

[k-dog]

As a father of (now grown) sons, I can say that sports, cards and the concept of enjoying a collecting hobby was a part of their lives growing up...but it took a back seat very quickly to many of the other activities that have been mentioned(internet, handheld devices, etc...). They grew up watching Ken Griffey Jr but today they could probably not tell you who he played for unless they used their phone or Ipod to look up the answer!

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

nah, there still are plenty of packs that can be bought for a buck or two.

Are there?

As a kid the price of a pack of cards mimic'd a price of a candy bar 5 cents and then 10 cents (starting in 69 I think).

I think a candy bar is now around $1, the few times I see Cards at a convenience store of five and dime, they seem to be in the $4 range. Too much, I think for a little kid.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Are there?

As a kid the price of a pack of cards mimic'd a price of a candy bar 5 cents and then 10 cents (starting in 69 I think).

I think a candy bar is now around $1, the few times I see Cards at a convenience store of five and dime, they seem to be in the $4 range. Too much, I think for a little kid.

I believe there are a good amount of low dollar packs that are still out there. Problem is, who wants them? Like stated before, even the kids want the big dollar packs because that is where the hits are.

[pitchernut]

Imo the decline of bb card hobby was when people started collecting cardboard instead of players.

[novakjr]

In the overall scheme of things, has there really been a decline in the hobby? Or does it just seem that way because of the boom in the late 80's-early-90's? And honestly, was that a boom of collectors, or investors?

I'm leaning towards investors, which really means as far as us collector's go, nothing has changed. This industry has always been for the collectors. Now why constantly compare the current state of things to a time when everything was inflated due the amount of people who viewed the hobby as just another gimmicky get rich scheme, as opposed to seeing it for what it really is, just hobby?

[teetwoohsix]

This is a great thread with too many great posts to quote, and I agree with many of you, but I don't look at it as the hobby is in decline. I probably live in a small world but IMO it seems that there is always an increasing amount of people getting into collecting- you see it here on Net54 even.

Anyhow, this is a great conversation- I love all of the different points of view, thanks !!

Sincerely, Clayton

[vintagetoppsguy]

If anybody doesn't believe that the hobby is in decline, then I invite them down to Houston for the weekend. We'll head over to the TriStar show and I won't say a word. The adult to kid ratio will tell you everything you need to know.

With fewer and fewer kids getting into the hobby, YES it's in decline.

[Touch'EmAll]

I tend to agree - yes - kids into this hobby are on the decline. And kids are more likely to pursue current modern cards.

However, adults that are into this hobby may be on the upswing. Adults have more money to spend, and adults are more likely to go after vintage cards. Vintage card sales are very healthy.

Decades ago, it was a kid driven hobby, and adults more or less scoffed at collecting. Now, the demographics have changed.

Look at coin collecting. Kids play virtually no factor in the hobby. Yet it is the biggest hobby industry in this country - adult driven.

Conclusion - go after quality vintage cards, preferrably upper tier HOFers, and don't worry - great investment - and very healthy segment of our hobby.

[dabigyankeeman]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

nah, there still are plenty of packs that can be bought for a buck or two. Kids just don't care about cards, nothing exciting about them for kids nowadays with the internet, i-pads, video games, portable video games, smart phones, etc.


technology has killed kids collecting cards

To me, that hit the nail on the head. Cards just arent exciting to a lot of the young people nowadays.