Poll: do Baines and/or Smith belong in the Hall?

[pokerplyr80]

I said yes to Smith, no for Baines. I think Hershiser or Clark would have been better options than Baines. But I don't get why so many think closers don't belong. Smith was one of the all time greatest closers.

[sreader3]

I voted "no" to both. But I did buy four autographed Smith & Baines Topps cards on eBay last night for my HOF autograph collection. HOF is a thing.

[insidethewrapper]

Over 200 in the HOF, Lee Smith 3rd All-Time in Saves. Baines 34th in RBI's, 46th in hits, 43rd in Total Bases and 60th in Extra Base Hits. So both are not that bad. Can't all be as good as Ruth, Cobb, etc.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Just realized nobody mentioned Dewey yet as a MUCH more deserving player than Baines

[mantlefan]

I always like to see some form of dominance in a Hall member. I voted yes for Smith because when he retired he was #1 in career saves.

Baines just chugged along for 22 years. Six All-Star games. Never once in the top 5 in the MVP vote. I gave him a "no".

[bigred1]

Same here, as above.

[kmac32]

Keep in mind that you need to compare them with their peers. Clear yes for Big Lee! Bains was a good player but not HOF calibur.

[Marc Simmons]

Originally Posted by mantlefan

I always like to see some form of dominance in a Hall member. I voted yes for Smith because when he retired he was #1 in career saves.

Baines just chugged along for 22 years. Six All-Star games. Never once in the top 5 in the MVP vote. I gave him a "no".

if you look at Baines stats, he should’ve retired after his first 10 seasons.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Marc Simmons

if you look at Baines stats, he should’ve retired after his first 10 seasons.

After his 10th season, Baines had seasons with an OPS+ 143, 137, 142, 132 and 136 and was above average every year but his last two in which he was a part time player. He was an All Star twice and even had a few top 10s. Baines was a very good player for most of his career. The problem was that he was never a truly great player, not that he hung on too long.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Over 200 in the HOF, Lee Smith 3rd All-Time in Saves. Baines 34th in RBI's, 46th in hits, 43rd in Total Bases and 60th in Extra Base Hits. So both are not that bad. Can't all be as good as Ruth, Cobb, etc.

Agree 100%. If Smith doesn't belong, then you need to kick out a bunch of relievers. If Baines doesn't belong, then there are a lot of other Veterans Committee picks that need to go too. These 2 guys clearly fit in the Hof's pattern of electing members.

Some may want the HOF to be exclusive. However, the HOF wants guys elected, that is how they stay profitable. Between 2001 and 2018, only 3 players were elected by the VC, a number of managers and executives made it. With 2 last year and 2 this year, don't be surprised to see more VC HOF picks.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by sreader3

I voted "no" to both. But I did buy four autographed Smith & Baines Topps cards on eBay last night for my HOF autograph collection. HOF is a thing.

I have Smith's rookie card, but don't need Baines, as simply stated, he doesn't make my personal HOF. That was one committee that didn't have a clue about doing their job.

Regards,

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

11.9 percent for Baines.
52.6 percent for Smith.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I said yes to Smith, no for Baines. I think Hershiser or Clark would have been better options than Baines. But I don't get why so many think closers don't belong. Smith was one of the all time greatest closers.

+1.

I didn't read all the replies, but these are pretty much my thoughts too.

[frankbmd]

“From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs”
A hall of fame for all, diverse and inclusive

Or

“I wouldn’t want to be a member of a hall of fame that would have me as a member”

Vote now

Marx, Marx, Both Marx or No Marx

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

“From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs”
A hall of fame for all, diverse and inclusive

Or

“I wouldn’t want to be a member of a hall of fame that would have me as a member”

Vote now

Marx, Marx, Both Marx or No Marx

That's a capital post.

[OldOriole]

How is it that the 16 person panel comprised Harold's former manager, former GM, and former owner? Only seven year ago, over 95% of baseball writers felt Baines did not belong in the Hall. If you're going to change that, could you at least pick a panel with a little more impartiality?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by OldOriole

How is it that the 16 person panel comprised Harold's former manager, former GM, and former owner? Only seven year ago, over 95% of baseball writers felt Baines did not belong in the Hall. If you're going to change that, could you at least pick a panel with a little more impartiality?

I would add to that, I don't think players who played with him are the right voters either. Too much opportunity for cronyism, friendships, etc. For better or worse people not part of organized baseball should be voting IMO.

[egri]

When I first saw the news of their induction, I thought I was reading The Onion. For reasons that other posters have already covered, I voted no on both.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

“From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs”
A hall of fame for all, diverse and inclusive

Or

“I wouldn’t want to be a member of a hall of fame that would have me as a member”

Vote now

Marx, Marx, Both Marx or No Marx

Harpo and Groucho YES.

Chico, Zeppo, Gummo, and Karl NO.

Harpo is my favorite Marx Brother.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Harpo and Groucho YES.

Chico, Zeppo, Gummo, and Karl NO.

Harpo is my favorite Marx Brother.

Chico was pretty good on the piano.

to my knowledge, brothers Zeppo and Gummo were never part of the 'act'.

Harpo was my favorite too...classic mirror bit he did with Lucy!


=

[nat]

There are two huge differences between the two.

First, Kaline was an awesome right fielder, whereas Baines was a DH. In Kaline's best defensive season he saved 29 runs more than an average right fielder, whereas Brooks Robinson, possibly the greatest defensive player of all time, had only two seasons in which he saved more runs than that above an average third baseman. (Brooks pulls far ahead over the course of his career, but at his best Kaline was comparable to Brooks at his best.) Baines' best season was 8 runs above average, he was often below average in the field, and his spent most of his career as a DH.

The other big difference is that Kaline played through the mini-deadball era in the 1960s, whereas Baines mostly played in a much higher-scoring environment. So although their raw offensive numbers are pretty similar, once you adjust for the difficulty in putting up those numbers, Kaline comes out much better. (Maybe you have to do some complementary adjusting to their respective defensive numbers, but the defensive gap between the two is so huge that it's not going to make that much of a difference.)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Al Kaline was a 15 time all star and first ballot HOFer. There can be no serious equivalence here.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Chico was pretty good on the piano.

to my knowledge, brothers Zeppo and Gummo were never part of the 'act'.

Harpo was my favorite too...classic mirror bit he did with Lucy!


=

Zeppo was the straight man and heart throb in some of their early movies. Not sure about Gummo

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Al Kaline was a 15 time all star and first ballot HOFer. There can be no serious equivalence here.

Just a basic fact, Kaline had a battery named after him. Baines did not.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Chico was pretty good on the piano.

to my knowledge, brothers Zeppo and Gummo were never part of the 'act'.

Harpo was my favorite too...classic mirror bit he did with Lucy!


=

Zeppo was on Broadway with his brothers and appeared in The Cocoanuts, Animal Crackers, Monkey Business, Horsefeathers, and Duck Soup before leaving show business. He was best friends with Jack Benny and introduced Benny to his future wife Mary at a Passover seder.

[CMIZ5290]

NO to both, please......

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I said yes to Smith, no for Baines. I think Hershiser or Clark would have been better options than Baines. But I don't get why so many think closers don't belong. Smith was one of the all time greatest closers.

I'm in agreement, voted the same way. I think closers will always face an uphill fight (outside of Rivera, for several reasons). It took 13 years for Bruce Sutter to gain election. I realize this is anecdotal but I watched many of his games. During those years when Bruce Sutter was at the top of his game, when his splitter was working, he seemed truly unhittable.

[glynparson]

I voted yes on both. I don’t like the argument that this guy is better so this guy shouldn’t get in. There’s no cap on total number of players allowed in the hall of fame so there is room for both. It’s not a mutually exclusive type conversation.

[mr2686]

I have no problem with relievers or dh's getting in the hall...they're both positions and should be represented. As for these two, I thought Smith should have already been in, but Baines is not sitting well after thinking about it over the last couple days. If you're a "duration" kind of player, you have to have hit some of the major milestones, added some value with your glove, or been a monster DH. I don't see Baines checking off any of those boxes. Next year is for the Modern Baseball Committee (1970-1987) to vote. That should be interesting.