Opinions wanted - PWE vs bubble mailers?

[bobbyw8469]

In my quest to start auctions vintage cards on Ebay for a penny, I have came across this dilemma. I have noticed that while everyone wants to bid a penny, a lot of people have a problem with shipping a "penny" card in a bubble mailer with the proper tracking (around $3.50-$4.00 charge. There is no way around that charge to ship cards properly though. How do collectors here feel about receiving cards in a PWE vs a bubble mailer?

[bbcard1]

I have gone to mostly shipping PWE and don't mind getting them that way. I think anything up to $20 it's fine. I would buy a ton more on line if not for shipping costs, but that's what it is now.

[buymycards]

It depends on what you are mailing. If it is a 99 cent card, and you specify in your listing that you are shipping in a PWE, then it is fine.

If you are charging $3 or $4 and you use a PWE, then it is not fine. Also, if you are shipping a card that sold for $25 dollars or more, don't use a PWE.

Be prepared to give an ocassional refund if you use a PWE, because some may not make it to the sender or the sender may tell you that he didn't receive the card, so your only option will be a refund.

[x2drich2000]

I ship anything under a few bucks in a PWE with free shipping. I minimum I start any item at is $1.49 or so to cover the stamp and at least a buck for the card. However, I also don't use my primary Ebay account for these items as I sort of expect issues/complaints with the cheaper stuff. It just seems like the less money involved, the more likely for a headache.

I would also recommend not using anything to stiffen the envelop as you want the envelop to be flexible going through the USPS machines. If have never seen video of the machines of a sort facility 1) it's quite fascinating and 2) you'll quickly see how envelopes are bent, folded, etc going through. I use just an invoice and the card in a CS1.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Be prepared to give an ocassional refund if you use a PWE, because some may not make it to the sender or the sender may tell you that he didn't receive the card, so your only option will be a refund.

You can always also get a receipt which is less that 50cents, I think, but I have not found PWE to be less reliable than any other shipping method, though agreed on occasional person may lie...but it is very rare of a low dollar item. I did have an issue where I had to give a refund on BST...and then the guy found it in his car and sent me back the money.

[CTDean]

If you ship in a PWE, the envelope has to be flexible to go by regular First Class mail. If you sandwich the card holder in rigid cardboard and the envelope will not flex it becomes a First Class mail package. The clerk at my post office suggested using a long envelope with multiple sheets of paper and a flexible card holder to stay at $1 or less. It may be time to give the PWE a try.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by buymycards

It depends on what you are mailing. If it is a 99 cent card, and you specify in your listing that you are shipping in a PWE, then it is fine.

If you are charging $3 or $4 and you use a PWE, then it is not fine. Also, if you are shipping a card that sold for $25 dollars or more, don't use a PWE.

Be prepared to give an ocassional refund if you use a PWE, because some may not make it to the sender or the sender may tell you that he didn't receive the card, so your only option will be a refund.

So far these have been HOFers, T206's and graded cards that could very well do OK, but could also finish at the penny opening bid. I would like to expand this to true commons as well though.

[Jim65]

You could give 2 shipping options to the buyer. PWE for $1 or padded mailer for $3.66.

I do that on many of my listings and 90% choose the cheap option.

[CobbSpikedMe]

FWIW, as a buyer I don't mind getting lower dollar cards in PWEs. Of course I prefer padded envelopes for graded cards or higher dollar cards. And I don't mind paying a little more for the padded envelope.

[rats60]

If you are going to send in a pwe without tracking for .55, you can send in a bubble mailer for .45 more. Paying 2.66-3.00 thru Ebay/PayPal is to get tracking. A pwe with top load just isn't enough protection for cards.

[bnorth]

I have shipped and received many cards up to $50 each in a PWE. That is with people I trust.

On eBay I would never do it. There are people that look just for people shipping in PWEs so they can claim item never arrived. There aren't many but they are out there. Have seen several threads over on BO about it.

[Orioles1954]

I got dinged on ebay last year by using a PWE. Apparently using a PWE and charging a buck for shipping was too much for this fellow.

[swarmee]

Anything cheap I would theoretically sell on ebay under $20 gets sent to COMC instead.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I got dinged on ebay last year by using a PWE. Apparently using a PWE and charging a buck for shipping was too much for this fellow.

postage 55 cents
envelope 5 cents
card saver 10 cents
ink and paper for the invoice 3 cents
ink and label for your return address label 2 cents
ebay and paypal fees 12 cents

Total is 87 cents. You should be ashamed that you made a whopping 13 cents off of this poor fellow.

Rick

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

In my quest to start auctions vintage cards on Ebay for a penny, I have came across this dilemma. I have noticed that while everyone wants to bid a penny, a lot of people have a problem with shipping a "penny" card in a bubble mailer with the proper tracking (around $3.50-$4.00 charge. There is no way around that charge to ship cards properly though. How do collectors here feel about receiving cards in a PWE vs a bubble mailer?

After almost 20+ years a card seller on ebay, I am still amazed by this debate.

I have heard from and dealt with plenty people and their range of opinions on this topic.

IMO, a (narrow?) majority of collectors of less expensive pre-1980 cards prefer the PWE option over the cost of a bubble mailer. I say this because I routinely receive messages from prospective buyers inquiring if I offer lower cost shipping options (PWE) versus the more expensive (bubble mailer) options. I have never had anyone ask if I could mail a $3 or less card via a bubble mailer versus a PWE.

As a collector myself, if I come across a low cost card I am seeking, but the seller has only more expensive s/h options, I pass....this happens frequently. On the receiving end, I have not encountered any problems with receiving properly prepared PWE mailed cards, and I have bought a lot of single cards that have been mailed this way over the years.

As Rick mentions, common sense is paramount when using PWE mailings....mention using PWE's in your listing, do not send more expensive cards (for me $3 or less) this way and do not overcharge for a PWE mailing (I charge $1). On my end, I do not ship more than one card in a PWE and I ensure that the one card is secured in the envelope (in a Card Saver wrapped with a regular sheet of paper). I use Card Saver IIs for post 56s and Card Saver Is for 56s and back.

As a seller I have followed these principles for years and have had 99.99% success rate when using PWE's. I have had what seems to be three times as many damaged /lost mailings when shipping with bubble mailers versus what I have had with PWEs. I have nearly an equal amount of mailings in PWEs as I do in bubblemailers

A few times a year, I encounter some unreasonable troll who "claims" he did not receive his $1 card and ONLY wants a refund and not a replacement. A quick check of the troll's feedback left for sellers usually reveals where the problem lies, as they have a long history of not receiving items and announce it time and time again via the feedback they leave. I refund and block...not worth the hassle.


In reading in other forums, the dislike of PWE's seems to come from collectors of newer cards who object to cards of any value being mailed in a PWE. I have read posts over the years where these collectors will only buy cards (no matter their value) if mailed in a bubble mailer. When buying single, less expensive cards, I prefer to buy more cards (for my money) with less expensive s/h versus buying fewer cards due to more expensive s/h. IMO, vintage card collectors are generally more open to the proper use of PWEs than the collectors of newer cards are. Obviously, there are exceptions both ways.

However, I understand the complaints from the anti-PWE crowd that stem from when a seller charges $3 for PWE mailings , sends more expensive cards in a PWE, does not secure the card in the envelope, does not mention the use of PWEs in their listing, etc.

Ultimately though, my goal is to sell as many cards to a buyer on each purchase. To stimulate buyers to buy more, I use a s/h cap on smaller orders and offer free s/h on larger orders. I avoid using a s/h policy of each additional card mails for $x.xx amount. As a collector I avoid sellers who have such "combined" s/h polices and use those sellers that "cap" their s/h. While around 50% of my mailings are PWEs, over 95% of my cards mail in bubble mailers as all multi item orders mail out via bubble mailers. As a seller I sell an average of 7-8 cards on each order....likely due to collectors who recognize the value of s/h caps.

Finally, through ebay and the use of the 15% off coupons when they show up, I can usually pick up several hundred forever stamps for between 35-40 cents per stamp. This is quite a savings over the course of a year.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I got dinged on ebay last year by using a PWE. Apparently using a PWE and charging a buck for shipping was too much for this fellow.

I would probably ding any seller on Ebay who shipped me a card in a PWE.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by buymycards

postage 55 cents
envelope 5 cents
card saver 10 cents
ink and paper for the invoice 3 cents
ink and label for your return address label 2 cents
ebay and paypal fees 12 cents

Total is 87 cents. You should be ashamed that you made a whopping 13 cents off of this poor fellow.

Rick

You are correct on most fees. However

PayPal is 30 cents per transaction + 3%
eBay fees are 10% plus any listing cost

So on a $5 transaction it would cost you 95 cents for eBay and PayPal fees. The PayPal transaction fee is a killer on small sales. Plus all of the shipping fees you mentioned then you run the risk of them claiming they didn’t get it and getting a refund.
I ship all of my items first class. I usually charge 3.50 shipping and I may just about break even.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Once just for the hell of it a friend sent a cheap PSA slab to me with an address label and the appropriate amount of postage in stamps right on the slab LOL. It arrived in fine shape.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Once just for the hell of it a friend sent a cheap PSA slab to me with an address label and the appropriate amount of postage in stamps right on the slab LOL. It arrived in fine shape.

Hahahaha!!! damn!!

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I would probably ding any seller on Ebay who shipped me a card in a PWE.

Even if it was a $3 wrestling card?

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

You are correct on most fees. However

PayPal is 30 cents per transaction + 3%
eBay fees are 10% plus any listing cost

So on a $5 transaction it would cost you 95 cents for eBay and PayPal fees. The PayPal transaction fee is a killer on small sales. Plus all of the shipping fees you mentioned then you run the risk of them claiming they didn’t get it and getting a refund.
I ship all of my items first class. I usually charge 3.50 shipping and I may just about break even.

Hi Adam, I was talking only about the fees that eBay and PayPal charge on your shipping charges. That is in addition to the transaction fees.

Rick

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Even if it was a $3 wrestling card?

If I took the time to track down and order a $3 wrestling card most likely it would hold some significance and I would want it to arrive in the condition it was in before shipping. I'd gladly pay the extra buck or 2 to make sure that happens.

[ValKehl]

When I sell a cheap, single card on eBay, I ship it in a PWE and charge accordingly. I do add stiffeners, but the envelope can't be over 1/4" thick or it is deemed by the USPS to be a First Class package instead of a First Class letter. A bubble mailer with a card & top loader inside is thicker than 1/4", and therefore is a First Class package. Also, I pay the 15 cents non-machinable surcharge (in addition to First Class postage), which (supposedly) means the USPS will NOT put it through its sorting machines; and I write "Non-Machinable" in red ink on both sides of the PWE. Knock on wood, but I haven't yet experienced any cards being damaged in transit, although I am not a high-volume seller.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

When I sell a cheap, single card on eBay, I ship it in a PWE and charge accordingly. I do add stiffeners, but the envelope can't be over 1/4" thick or it is deemed by the USPS to be a First Class package instead of a First Class letter. A bubble mailer with a card & top loader inside is thicker than 1/4", and therefore is a First Class package. Also, I pay the 15 cents non-machinable surcharge (in addition to First Class postage), which (supposedly) means the USPS will NOT put it through its sorting machines; and I write "Non-Machinable" in red ink on both sides of the PWE. Knock on wood, but I haven't yet experienced any cards being damaged in transit, although I am not a high-volume seller.

This is not true. When I used to sell on another site, I would send without tracking in a bubble mailer at the non machinable rate when people wanted cheap shipping. I never sent in a pwe. There was a time when the post office made me make the envelope thicker (I would put a plastic peanut in the bubble mailer) to make it thicker in order for it not to ship at the cheaper rate and be able to buy tracking. This was before Paypal offered free tracking.

[Jason]

Depends on the card as said multiple times. I have never sent a card in a pwe but have received quite a few with no issues so far.

[Buythatcard]

I ship every card whether it sold for 99 cents or $999 in bubble envelopes. It doesn't matter what the card sold for. To the buyer, that particular card is important to them and they expect it to arrive in the same condition they bought it for. The PWE offers no protection and if I received a card in a PWE, I would be pissed.

I have received cards from AH's that were wrapped in paper towels or placed in glad bags. Even though they dropped it in the box, to me it was just not professional. Made me think twice about buying from them again.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

I got you. Most people don’t realize all of the fees that go into completing a transaction. You did a nice job at laying them out at least on the shipping end. There is an occasional customer angry about the fees because they don’t know the math involved. If you sell on eBay and are not aware of how much it costs it’s easy to lose money. I see many people who do.

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi Adam, I was talking only about the fees that eBay and PayPal charge on your shipping charges. That is in addition to the transaction fees.

Rick

[Mike D.]

I sell mostly lower-priced items (like, start most auctions or BIN for 1-4 card lots at $1.99 w/ free shipping). I ship all of those via PWE and have NEVER had one get damaged in shipping. I've had a few claims of lost in the mail, but it's a handful out of 1,000+ transactions.

I print a packing slip, put the card in a top loader, then tape the top loader shut AND tape the top loader to the packing slip (so it doesn't slide around). If i'm selling a multi-card lot, I put the first card in an top loader, the others in penny sleeves, then put the whole lot (up to 4 cards) in a team set bag, seal it, and tape down as I do with the top loader.

I've never had anyone complain, and never had anyone ask to pay for bubble mailer. I think most people realize if they're paying $2 for a card/lot, the seller isn't going to spend $3.50 to ship it to them, and that it's not worth it for the buyer to pay $3.50 to ship a $2 card.

I have seen a few questionablely packaged PWE's over the years. Most of what I buy now is graded or unopened materials, which obviously always ship in a bubble mailer or box.

[Jewish-collector]

The trick is to put multiple cards in a PWE protected by cardboard and/or top loaders and you might have to add an additional 1 oz stamp or two, but don't you dare let it get to be a first class parcel (as explained in other posts) because the package jumps automatically up to $4 (I think the USPS raised prices recently and that is the least expensive cost perhaps, not sure ?)

[Exhibitman]

If I cannot get at least $10 with shipping out of a card I don't sell it as a stand alone. I bundle the cheap stuff into larger lots that I can sell for at least $10 shipped.

[glchen]

I don't think it's going to work for PWE for cards if you are selling on ebay. You're going to get too many returns/chargebacks. Buyers want cheap shipping, but they don't want damage cards. So if the card doesn't arrive in the same condition that it was described in the auction because it was damaged during shipping, buyers won't care if the shipping was free, they'll want their money back.

I collect stamps also, and for that, it is very, very common that they are shipped via PWE. However, stamps aren't rigid cardboard like cards are, so they are much less likely to be damaged/creased during shipping when sent via PWE. Any, just my opinion.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

If I cannot get at least $10 with shipping out of a card I don't sell it as a stand alone. I bundle the cheap stuff into larger lots that I can sell for at least $10 shipped.

I like this strategy. Unfortunately, I am selling cards that SHOULD sell for at least $10, that do not. Nature of Ebay I guess.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by glchen

I don't think it's going to work for PWE for cards if you are selling on ebay. You're going to get too many returns/chargebacks. Buyers want cheap shipping, but they don't want damage cards. So if the card doesn't arrive in the same condition that it was described in the auction because it was damaged during shipping, buyers won't care if the shipping was free, they'll want their money back.

I collect stamps also, and for that, it is very, very common that they are shipped via PWE. However, stamps aren't rigid cardboard like cards are, so they are much less likely to be damaged/creased during shipping when sent via PWE. Any, just my opinion.

I dunno...just looked at my eBay seller info.

In the last year, I have 998 sales.

Of those, I'd guess 950+ got shipped in PWE's (the others were larger or higher priced orders shipped in bubble mailers).

Total returns or refund requests for damaged cards? Zero

I do recall providing maybe 4-5 refunds based on "didn't receive", but out of 950 transactions, I'll take that rate.

So, is this all theoretical, or have folks here actually received damaged cards shipped in PWE's and needed to request refunds?

[dabigyankeeman]

If I buy a real cheap card, usually a modern card, say two bucks or less, I prefer greatly a pwe. Its too expensive the other way for a cheap card, plus over the years i have had tremendous results receiving cards in pwe's. But never for a more expensive card!!!! Still too much of a gamble.

[Bill77]

Normally I don't mind PWE's but then this shows up in my mailbox. I don't know if I should be happy the USPS delivered it with both cards still inside or really pissed off that the post office accepted an unsealed envelope. The other thing that blows my mind is the fact that I was charged $2.00 per card (which I was ok with) and the seller used two postcard stamps to sent it. Which also amazes me that the post office delivered it in the first place.