NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-11-2002, 09:17 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Tim

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1820289435

If I am not mistaken, 1928 Fro-joys (F52s) are supposed to be black and white and any colored copies are recent counterfeits, correct?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-11-2002, 09:28 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: leon

as the proud owner (but not anymore ) of 2 different types of Fro-Joy counterfeits this is a fake/reprint......regards

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-11-2002, 03:57 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Bob

Seems like the (only) bidder is about to get a $75.00 lesson.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-22-2002, 06:03 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Connor Ciallella

i own the set of fro joys all psa graded and they are all black and white the colored ones are from at least 35 years after the originals were made colored are counterfeit!!!








connor

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-22-2002, 08:46 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: David

Some, in fact most, black and white Ruth Fro Joys are also counterfeits

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-23-2002, 04:18 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Julie Vognar

...

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-23-2002, 08:48 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Dr.Richard Koos

Most black and whites have been HEAVILY knocked off through the years. The largest production of B & W and Minor League counterfeit cards occurred ca. 1982 to 1985 by a printer within a 30 mile radius of NYC. He was responsible for AT LEAST all of the following:

The countless 1947 Bond cards on a thin two or three ply stiff, square, SEPIA, cross-hatched stock instead of the original 20+ ply, slightly rounded corner, WHITE stock. mostly just the stars were booted (Ted, Jackie, and Stan "the Man" most notably).
The countless blank back exhibit cards of (you've got it) JUST the stars: Mantle, Spahn, Ford, Ted, Stan, etc., which ridiculous as it seems, are printed on THE SAME STOCK AS THE COUNTERFEIT 1947 CARDS!!!
The countless Ruth Fro-Joys.
The countless minor league cards of Boggs, Ripken, and Gwynn from the 1981 offering! Offered to area dealers in 800 count boxes in the early 80s even though only 3000 of each minor league team set were supposed to have been printed!!
The 1983 Tidewater Tides Green bordered/blank back card and the 1982 Gooden Blue background card that surfaced, offered quietly to NY area dealers ca. 1985, also carried in 800 AND 3200!!!! count boxes!
Warehouse finds supposedly! Warehouse finds thats numbers exceed reported print runs by a factor of up to 1000???

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-24-2002, 01:37 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Julie Vognar

So, like i said, little joy from Fro joy.

About the Bond Bread--the OTHERR 1947 Homoginized Bond bread set that consists entirerly of 13 different Jackie Robinsons--have they been counterfeited? The surface is so strange, with that shiny, beady finish--I'd think it would be difficult. Just wondered if you knew anything about them. i have five of them, and some people, when i tell them this, say it would take 30 years to collect 5 of them in good shape (which mine are). So occasionally, i worry.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-12-2002, 01:39 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Bill

i also thought all Fro Joys were in B&W .. Ebay has a PSA 5 in Blue ..HELPPPP

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-12-2002, 01:57 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: David

Very interesting. I hope PSA didn't make a boo boo. and if they did don't anyone tell MW (Hi, Michael). I'm sure Bob Lemke could provide some valuable comments on this subject.

As a rule, any original Fro Joy (black/white, pink, aqua marine, hot pink, mauve, shartruse) would have been a photogengraving. Photoengraving is not identifiable from an auction scan, but is easily identifiable in person.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-12-2002, 02:05 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: David

I have never owned a Fro Joy(they're starting to get expensive, especially when PSA/SGC graded), but it is widely regarded that the genruine cards were only black/white-- and that most of the black/whites are reprints too. Again, Bob Lemke will be able to provide a good opinion on this.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-12-2002, 02:44 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Elliot

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1849835693

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-12-2002, 08:25 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: jay behrens

to my knowledge legit Fro-Joys are only B&W. This is not a good thing is PSA is slabbing bogus Fro-Joys as legit. This set has enough problems with identifying real cards that is doesn't need a PSA to confuse the situation even more.

Jay

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-13-2002, 12:54 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Tom Lawrie

I talked to Grady at SGC, and he indicated that they won't slab Fro Joys because of the counterfeit issue, though he indicated that the legit ones are supposed to be all black and white. SGC also won't slab STAR basketball for similar reasons, and won't slab sets where the plates may have been reused multiple times in different years.

PSA doesn't know what they're doing well enough to slab Fro Joys.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-13-2002, 01:04 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: jay behrens

does that mean that they won't slab 1984 Fleer updates? I know those made from plates that someone 'accidently' threw in the trash. Aside from some very minute differences, about teh only way to tell the real thing from a the fakes is if the person has the whole set AND the box, since they never made boxes for the 'second' run.

Being from MN, a Twins and Puckett fan, I had to learn way too much about taht set and the only way I would buy Puckett was if the person had the complete set with the box.

Jay

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-13-2002, 01:55 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: David

I haven't heard that story about the 84 Fleer Updates before.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-13-2002, 08:04 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: goudey guy

I too have owned a fake Fro Joy card or two. The reprints, as previously stated, are black and white, and appear to be on a very crisp white and thin cardbord stock. Sometimes tehy are colored (which should tell you that they are most definately reprints).
REAL FRO JOYS were made on a thicker stock of card board which has a dirtier off white almost yellow color to it. They remind me of a Neilsons card in the heavier cardboard stock. I have seen the real ones too, they do exist. The problem with real Fro Joys, is that there are so very few of the real ones in existance, that nearly all vintage card collectors haven't been exposed to them. I haven't seen a real Fro Joy offered on Ebay ever, and have "saved" a bidder or two from learning the hard way. If there's one thing that irritates me more than sellers with a bad attitude, its sellers who sell fakes, reprints, and altered cards. Reprints bog down our hobby.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-13-2002, 08:10 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: goudey guy

Another thought on Fro Joys...many reprints and fakes of them have been professionally authenticated and graded. This lends to my opinion that card grading doesn't add value. PSA doesn't know everything about every card.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-13-2002, 09:00 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Anonymous

Yes, the whole set was reprinted from the printers plates that were supposedly found in the trash. Not sure if they ever found the plates. At first, they were just unloading the Puckett, clemens and other hot cards, but once word got out about the fakes they started bringing in the whole set to make it look legit, but they did not have boxes for them. I would get hte story that the box was in bad shape and they threw it away or some very version of my kid ruined it.

Jay

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-13-2002, 12:23 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Tom Lawrie

and think that SGC's policy is best: if you can't be certain, then don't authenticate it at all.

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-13-2002, 12:35 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: David

I hate to repeat myself (that's a lie, I love to do it), but the original Froy Joys should be straightforeward to authenticate as they most probably were photoengraving which is a long out-of-date printing process and is easily identifiable.

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-13-2002, 01:16 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Marc S.

should opine on this one, being the resident #1 PSA Registry 1928 Fro-Joy graded set owner.

It is a touchy issue -- but isn't this exactly what the grading companies are there for? Grading a Fro-Joy might be just as hard as authenticating a Keensaw Landis autograph -- but this is precisely the service that we are sending our money for.

I think that PSA has been very strict with these cards up until now. In fact, the only three owners I can think of with PSA-graded 1928 Fro-Joys are Vorthian, John Branca and Steve Verkman has some in his inventory -- and all three of those are authentic (with many having passed through the hands of Mastro).

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-13-2002, 02:19 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Counterfeit Fro-joy

Posted By: Dr.Koos

...expert (a man that can spot a bad signature from across the street), over 90% (YES, NINE OUT OF TEN) H.O.F. autographed memorabilia of players who supposedly signed items in excess of 50 years ago, are FAKE...Authenticated, C.O.A.ed, or NOT!!! According to him, he has seen TWO good Ruth autographs offered on Ebay in the past three years!!!

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fro Joy Original Sheet (not) Please Help Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 01-27-2006 05:15 PM
Don't miss out on this Fro Joy set Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 03-18-2005 04:41 PM
fro joy ruth sheet - k.c. at it again! Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 11-26-2003 01:09 AM
Color Fro-Joy - PSA 5? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 8 09-27-2002 05:46 PM
Fro Joy cards Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 09-13-2002 09:00 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 AM.


ebay GSB