T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

[tedzan]

Most T205 collectors consider the HINDU's tougher than the DRUM's. To date, there are 25 subjects confirmed with DRUM backs. While there are
19 subjects confirmed with HINDU backs. DRUM and HINDU checklists will follow.
And, this I can state with certainty: T205 DRUM and HINDU cards are mutually exclusive.

How many more T205's yet to be found with HINDU backs is not easily discernable, given the existing back patterns associated with T205 HINDU's.

However, I have a theory regarding the predictability of DRUM cards in the T205 set.

Theory...... the A=B=C=D equation




Apparently, American Lithographic printed American Beauty (Black)...Broad Leaf...Cycle...Drum backs simultaneously on certain T205 subjects.
Research suggests, as many as 32 subjects were possibly printed with DRUM backs in the T205 set.
The key factor in this A=B=C=D equation is the Black American Beauty back. Conversely, a T205 subject with a Green American Beauty back
will NOT be found with a DRUM back.


Here's my original list of 11 predictions Since I proposed these predictions, 4 of them have surfaced with DRUM backs (marked confirmed on list).
So, I'm 4 for 4 (Batting 1.000). Therefore, I'm feeling very confident that my theory is valid.

The remaining 7 guys have been confirmed with the A=B=C pattern. So, I expect these 7 subjects eventually will be discovered with the DRUM
back (completing their A=B=C=D connection).

1......Bates.........confirmed
2......Becker
3......Bergen.......confirmed
4......Evans
5......Herzog
6......Huggins
7......Leach.........confirmed
8......Lobert
9......Paskert......confirmed
10....Phelps
11....Wheat


Having said all that, the intent of this thread is twofold....to inform....and to encourage more worthwhile T205 discussions. Especially, regarding
the tougher front / back combinations (i.e: HINDU's....AMERICAN BEAUTY....BROAD LEAF....CYCLE....DRUM's, etc.).


So, feel free to post your T205's of any variety.....and/or, to chime in with some interesting stories regarding your T205 set or cards.


TED Z
.

[T205 GB]

Ted the Cycles don't follow the pattern like they do on 206's. I also have a list of Hindu confirmed/possibles I can post of your interested. I have some where a list of the same for Drums but having issues with my desktop where I believe it is.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Ted the Cycles don't follow the pattern like they do on 206's. I also have a list of Hindu confirmed/possibles I can post of your interested. I have some where a list of the same for Drums but having issues with my desktop where I believe it is.

I realize that the patterns of the T205 CYCLE's are different than they are with the T206 cards.

But, when the CYCLE's are in partners with the black American Beauty and the Broad Leaf cards for a given T205 subject, then a Drum
will inevitably follow.

And, by all means, please list all of the Drum and Hindu confirmed/possibles you have.


Thanks, ole buddy

TED Z
.

[EvilKing00]

Love all the recent t205 threads! If anyone had a hindu or drum they are looking to sell i could be interested

[Steve D]

I have a T205 Jake Stahl (Boston Amer) with a Hindu back.

Steve

[peterb69]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I have a T205 Jake Stahl (Boston Amer) with a Hindu back.

Steve

Thanks Steve, great find

[tedzan]

List of the 19 subjects currently confirmed with HINDU backs (with respect to their Team affiliation)......


New York Giants
-------------------
Leon Ames
Josh Devore
W. R. Dickson


Chicago Cubs
----------------
John Kling
John Pfeister


Cincinnatti Reds
-------------------
Robert Bescher
Richard Egan
Harry Gaspar


Detroit Tigers
----------------
George Simmons
Oscar Stanage


Philadelphia Phillies
-----------------------
Fred Jacklitsch
Sherwood Magee


Washington Senators
-------------------------
Walter Johnson
GeorgeMcBride


Boston Red Sox
-------------------
Clyde Engle


Boston Rustlers
------------------
Bayard Sharpe


Brooklyn Superbas
----------------------
Edgar Lennox


Pittsburg Pirates
--------------------
Albert Leifield


St Louis Browns
-------------------
William Bailey




TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Steve

Your T205 Jake Stahl is a new HINDU card. This is the 20th confirmed HINDU.

When you can, please post front & back scans of it.


Thanks for this important input,

TED Z
.

[Wite3]

Ted is spot on in his evaluation...the matrix can be further seen at t205resource.com

Drum used to be tougher than Hindu but I suspect the print runs were probably similar. There was a couple of "large" Drum finds (around 20 cards total) a few years back that allowed much of those into the hobby.

I can tell you that there were at least three press runs for Hindu as I have have seen three different Hindu Ames sell during my time. As for Drum, I have only confirmed duplicates of Brown and Quinn...still waiting to confirm a triplicate of those two.

Joshua

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Ted is spot on in his evaluation...the matrix can be further seen at t205resource.com

Drum used to be tougher than Hindu but I suspect the print runs were probably similar. There was a couple of "large" Drum finds (around 20 cards total) a few years back that allowed much of those into the hobby.

I can tell you that there were at least three press runs for Hindu as I have have seen three different Hindu Ames sell during my time. As for Drum, I have only confirmed duplicates of Brown and Quinn...still waiting to confirm a triplicate of those two.

Joshua

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment.

Regarding the relatively recent two finds of T205 Drum's, that I think you are alluding to. Ron Oser and I were set-up at adjacent booths at
a Philly Show when Ron discovered those cards on his trips to St. Louis. Ron and I were like two kids sorting thru all these T205 (and T206)
Drum cards (which altogether totaled approx. 70 Drum cards)......what a "blast".


TED Z
.

[T205 GB]

Ted I remember sitting at the Hilton bar with you in 2010 and talking t205's and this back pattern link and also some other card back list and connections. Hope we can repeat that again this summer. Here is the Hindu list I made about 2 yrs back. I deleted it off the board along with some of my other research. Anyways here's what I have:

I have been researching this set for what seems yrs now. I was leaning towards a theory about the Hindus a while back but needed a few more back confirmations to make the connection factual. Hindus were printed at the 649 Fact, as well as the Hassan 649 back. After a lot of research I noticed that NO Hindu players were found with Hassan Backs even though they were printed in the same factory as each other. I then realized there was another neat thing that all Hindus have the SC black backs only. So if it has a Hassan back then there will be NO Hindu or SC Black back from either factory. None of the AB, BL, Cycle, Drum, or Pied 42 cards can be found with the SC black back from either factory either, but can have SC red fact 25.

These may have not been printed, but they meet all the criteria to be a Hindu print, and there is a list of Confirmed backs below. Also you will see a few Variations listed. I believe the 2 variations listed are the correct card for the back to fall on. This is due the card listed as being the primary card containing the SC Blacks from both factories and the other variation being a type of misprint or correction later on.

Possible
Abbaticchio
Archer
Ball
Birmingham
Bransfield
Ciotte
Daubert
Doughtery-Red Sox Emblem
Duffy
Ford Black Cap
Fromme
Goode
Gray-No Stats
Griffith
Groom
Hoffman
Hummel
Jennings
Killian
LaPorte
Lang
Livingston
Lord
Lush
Maddox
McElveen
McIntyre
McLean
Mitchell
Moriarity
Mullin
Rucker
Schmidt
Scott
Stahl
Thomas
Young

Confirmed
Ames
Bailey
Bescher
Devore
Dickson
Egan
Engle
Gaspar
Jacklitsch
Johnson
Kling
Leifield-A on Front
Lennox
Magee
McBride
Pfiester
Sharpe
Simmons
Stanage

I do hope this will help out in some way and hope to cross off a few in the future to the confirmed list. I would be happy to hear any questions or comments.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Ted I remember sitting at the Hilton bar with you in 2010 and talking t205's and this back pattern link and also some other card back list and connections. Hope we can repeat that again this summer.

The Hilton in Baltimore, I remember that well. I wish all the future National Shows were in Baltimore. Anyhow, we talked T205's quite late
into the night. I think we finally ended talking about our Daughters....your Kadence and Melody, and my Zoe and Debra.
The Good Lord willing, we can continue our conversation this forthcoming Summer.


Thanks for posting all this good stuff regarding T205 HINDU's. I will certainly give it some serious thought.

Incidentally, on your possible list is Stahl, and yesterday Steve D (post #6) identified Stahl with a HINDU back.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Team affiliation of the 25 subjects currently confirmed with DRUM backs......

New York Yankees
----------------------
James Austin
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Jack Knight
John Quinn
Harry Wolter


Philadelphia Phillies
-----------------------
John Bates
Patrick Moran
George Paskert


Chicago White Sox
----------------------
Russell Blackburne
Frederick Olmstead
Fred Payne


Boston Rustlers
-------------------
George Graham (blue signature)
David Shean


Brooklyn Superbas
----------------------
George Bell
William Bergen


Chicago Cubs
-----------------
Mordecai Brown
Lewis Richie


Cincinnati Reds
------------------
Thomas Downey
Richard Hoblitzell


New York Giants
--------------------
Albert Bridwell
A. Latham


Philadelphia A's
------------------
Briscoe Lord


Pittsburg Pirates
-------------------
Thomas Leach


St Louis Browns
-------------------
George Stone


St Louis Cardinals
---------------------
Frank Corridon




TED Z

[gfgcom]

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by gfgcom

Can you tell me if the ink is black or dark olive green? Thank you

[brucerothstein76]

Very serious about purchasing a T205 Drum of Hindu. If any leads, please contact me at: brucerothsteindds3@gmail.com