Memory Lane Redux?

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Posted By: Dave

those cases surely do look frosted, and tampered with. Nice picture of Joe Orlando and Cohen grinning ear to ear , side by side.... Hey Joe Orlando if you read this, that doesn't do much for my confidence in PSA.

Apparently PSA business model is strong enough to stand up against just about any allegation thrown it's way. Does anyone know if that book about the Honus Wagner card is still being released ? I know a lot of ohio collectors that are waiting to read the story about how PSA graded a trimmed card in order to further their reputation and grow their business, at the expense of telling the truth. Truth...I don't think that word is in the PSA lexicon...they can't even tell the truth about when packages are received at their own P.O. box for god's sake, what makes anyone think they will admit to shady business dealings with Memory Lane ?
the grading business is all about trust isn't it ? How can you trust PSA after seeing stuff like this. I guess it wouldn't be that upsetting if PSA didn't have such an effect on the baseball card market.

Has anyone on the board tried to challenge PSA's credibility publicly about stuff like the Memory Lane auction ? Perhaps it's time to do it, if it's not been done before. Without us collectors PSA would not exist, so they are kind of at our mercy as far as money is concerned. Perhaps it's time for a new grading company populated by "real" collectors who care about collecting and preserving the hobby, and not making money.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Paul, you started one fine thread.

Wesley, my personal conclusion is that I'm not buying anything from Memory Lane, and any catalogs or flyers I get from them will be mailed back.

Why would I want to deal with those folks?

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Posted By: Mike

Or- The card is replaced in the holder by a card that has been "doctored" and sent to the winning bidder. The orginal card is then submitted for grading. Winning bidders should compare their cards to the pictures in the auction.

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Posted By: leon

Lets be careful of being anonymous when giving personal opinions. As for showing cards that were sold and sold again.....that is a fact and I don't really care if someone remains anonymous when stating facts....thanks much.....by the way....Ducks quack....

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I would think that after the baggage that JP Cohen brings to this hobby, the last thing he'd want to get involved with is shady stuff like this. Perhaps there is an innocent explanation -- however, I'm hard pressed to figure out what it could be. It just seems fishy. PS: I wonder if JP signed that oversized check over to the victims of his years of fraud?

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Posted By: ScottIngold

I wonder if the twin to this thread that was up on CU's site has been deleted yet ?

That is what happened to the last few that threw ?'s out about JP's buisness practice's.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Include me out of Memory Lane's auctions. Makes my skin crawl.

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Posted By: Bob C.

Memory Lane April 16 2007, 8:53 AM


Or- The card is replaced in the holder by a card that has been "doctored" and sent to the winning bidder. The orginal card is then submitted for grading. Winning bidders should compare their cards to the pictures in the auction.


This is scary and probably exactly what transpired but it still doesn't explain the non sequential cert #s. Are we to believe ML sent each card in seperately or brought each card through the walk thru service at different times?

We need some answers here.

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Posted By: Luc Mitchell

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=581295

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Posted By: KirkM

Anything about ML is getting axed!!

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Posted By: ctownboy

It is threads like these that make me wish I were an FBI agent.....


David

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, the FBI can be alerted to this.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

King put up another thread on the CU site about Memory Lane to which I responded. That was shut down as well. Joe Orlando has become Putin! Well done, Joe!

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Posted By: Mike

Let's keep posting to CU and keep them busy. Can't believe they don't have a comment.

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Posted By: L.J.

Maybe the cards were sent with the $13, 5 day special and were sent in with lets say 50 cards(all 59 Football) and there could have been two or three high end cards that a grader may not have recognized that sell at a premium, this would account for the "consecutive series cert #'s"......

You do not have to submit a $2000 card at that walk thru level if it is hidden in plain site....

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Posted By: leon

I know some folks have got upset because our banner ads could be a conflict of interest. Unlike CU anything still goes here on Net54....Advertisers, nor myself, are immune. All I ever ask is that you put your name by your post. I would politely challenge anyone to show where any Net54 advertiser has been protected. On the converse I can show where almost all of them have been taken to task ....most of them many times. There are now 2 companies that won't be permitted to advertise on the board, though I don't care to make it publicly known.... Each one has issues...one, I can no longer believe as they had a public guarantee on their website and won't stand behind it and the other had issues with the way they were treated on the board. While I was discussing that issue with the owner I typed an email to my right hand man to take down their banner....before the advertiser got finished telling me of his disapproval I told him he wasn't an advertiser anymore. Thanks to all who make this a great place....even folks that disagree with a lot of what I do....I appreciate them too....best regards

edited spelling though I am sure I still su** at it...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, will Marshall Fogel be submitting a letter standing behind Memory Lane's latest practices as described above?

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Posted By: leon

The real question is "will I post it for him?"......

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Posted By: Dave

Just a plug for the moderator....I've been involved in a few other message boards on the net, and I think Leon and the other guys who moderate this board are doing a great job. I'll be buying him a cold one at the National also ...for sure !!

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

One incident I remember you protecting an advertiser happened on January 3, 2007. Barry Sloate started a thread regarding a Ward Four Base Hits that was in a Mile High auction - you came to their defense in that thread.

Scott

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Posted By: Tony Arnold

Wow this is a tough place. I was reluctant to write this post because of the negativity with Memorylane, but I feel compelled to write something postive here because I was happy with my results from my consignments. I consigned to Memory Lane and I will continue to do so. Some of the cards listed in the thread were mine. I consigned a large portion of the Root Beer cards in his auction including most of those listed above. I consigned them to Memory Lane because I looked at his past auction results for Root Beer cards and they had done well in the past and they did well this time around. My Root beer cards were not the same cards in the previous auctions. They were from one set that was obviously insane because you can read the sequantial serial numbers on his site. With all the negativity surrounding this thread, I thought I would share my postive experience with MemoryLane. Plus, I figure my check might come faster...
Tony

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Posted By: barrysloate

Please refresh my memory, but how did Leon come to their defense? As I recall he and I agreed something was very amiss.

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Posted By: Mike

Some guy at Virginia Tech just got his cards from Memory Lane

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Posted By: Adam VanVliet

has anyone tried to determine of the 70 cards how many are the exact same card from the dec 06 to apr 07 auctions?. and of those that are reappearing in the apr 07 auction are the certs from the same time period, namely dec 06 to late feb 07 (the time at which they would have had to go to print for the apr auction)? i am also wondering if this same scenario could be proved in earlier back to back auctions? also let's just say that someone was buying these for a bump and they came back the same grade AND the new certs tie to that time period (dec 06 to mar 07) does it make sense that all of those winner(s) decided to consign the cards back to memory lane?

was jp shilling these auctions and the legitimate under bidder did not come back? or is he merely trying to bolster sales numbers for some other purpose? having this many identical cards reappear 3 or 4 months later is highly suspicious.

something also tells me that psa yanking down the threads about jp is more than their protecting ad revenue. it would be very interesting to try to date the reappearing cards’ cert numbers to see if it is even possible that they were issued in the 3 month period. during a 3 month period, unless some of these were show submissions, the cert run should be very similar amongst the reappearing cards, ie they all start with 0104.

AV

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

m Owner since you asked..timing January 3 2007, 8:27 PM

I have known about this for 4-5 days as well as a few other board members. There was a New Year in between now, and then, so things couldn't happen as quickly as normal. It seems as though there were some communication issues, I am told, and this took some time too. Since multiple, respected board members knew about it, and myself, I doubt it would ever be kept a secret. This affects several different parties and there was no need to rush it. There's still 2 weeks left to the auction. Hope this explains the timing portion.

Here's another:

Forum Owner not really speaking for anyone January 3 2007, 7:07 PM

I have spoken with the auctioneer for about 3-4 hours over the last few days. I hope more details come out. Everything isn't always as it seems. Also, the new information is plausible, imo, if it was new to them and it wasn't known until after the auction started. Yes, it was known about before today but not before the auction, is my understanding. There are still 2 weeks left so it's not like anyone was going to take a beating on not knowing the facts... I can promise that. ....best regards

and another:
Forum Owner a couple points January 3 2007, 2:15 PM

1. Whomever posts in this thread needs to be well known by their Net54 ID or put their full name. Sam from NY....nothing personal but you need to put your full name in this thread. It's the rule.

2. The auction house has done the right thing at this point. Might it have taken too long? Yes. Did the auctioneer know everything going into this? No.

3. Mile High has said any current bidder on that card can withdraw their bid if they want to. Can't be more fair than that at this point.

We can continue griping about this, or that, but the full disclosure is now made and everyone is well apprised of the situation....happy collecting .....

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Posted By: barrysloate

Tony- I don't doubt you had a positive experience, but here is something I don't understand. How does Memory Lane have a superior track record with Root Beer cards? Do they have a secret pipeline of Root Beer collectors that nobody knows about, who will only bid with them? I don't even know where your post is coming from. Not doubting the results, just the thinking that went into choosing them to consign your items.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

Hobby issues. I don't forgot much. He use to be amazed that I remembered cards he bought and where he bought them from years ago!

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Posted By: leon

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong on the Mile High/Four Base Hits incident. I took them to task big time. I actually yelled at them on the phone for the way they handled the whole affair. It was just wrong....it was then and it still is.....I called a spade a spade. Please enlighten me on the specifics that you remember and we can have some friendly debate about it....I was apalled at the way it was handled. best regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

Scott- I saw you brought up the Four Base Hits thread and I checked Leon's 2:15 post. I think there was more information that came out after that that caused him to look at the matter differently. I do remember that new information trickled out as the day progressed.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

Kudos to you for yelling at them over this - they really needed it! Just the posts in the thread made by you certainly don't sound like you are bashing them - even defending them to a point (please see above pastes of what you typed). Again, I posted your responses above from the thread. To me, it sounds like you are protecting Mile High. To others it might or might not - I don't know. I am only going by what I read that you typed and how I took it.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

Where Leon states "This affects several different parties and there was no need to rush it"????????? No need to rush it. Evidently YOU Barry thought there was a need to bring this issue forward - and it was the right thing to do!!!!!! I mean anyone (IMHO) can read Leon's responses and tell he was NOT mad at Mile High and WAS trying to defend them - anyone with an IQ higher than 5 that is! Hell, I know if this was on the board Jay and I run, I would have been bashing Mile High with no mercy! If I did sell ads, this would have been the last straw and I would have barred Mile High from advertising - period!

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Posted By: leon

I guess we think alike then.........for the record Barry asked about posting and I said go for it....advertiser or not.....see my email to you.....take care

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Guys -- what does Leon's and Barry's actions regarding a Mile High issue from months ago have to do with what was just revealed about Memory Lane?

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

This is an interesting thread raising some interesting questions about cards in a recent auction that have not yet been answered satisfactorily. Indeed, it is troubling that on the CU board they seem to be censoring any discussion.

I would hate to see this thread degenerate into a referendum on Leon, which seems completely unnecessary as well as off topic.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I was as outraged about the Four Base Hits fiasco as anyone, but I didn't lash into them because it is just not my style to do so. Others show more tact in certain situations too. I think if you read past the 2:15 post you will see that new information came out as the day progressed.

However, let Leon defend himself. I don't need to speak for him.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

Leon did the RIGHT THING in the end. I congratulated him on it! Evidently a lot happened off the board on that one and it all came out in the wash! Right call on that one in the end Leon!

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Posted By: Tony Arnold

Hi Barry.
My thought process was simple. In my opinion, most people who are bidding on his auctions are registry collectors. It seems everything that is lower pop does fairly well. I noticed in his last auction he had a boat load of them and I would have taken the under bid for most of my cards. I listed a couple on ebay and they did not do as well in comparing to his last auction. I think the main reason was because I knew they would not be lost in the mix of one of the other larger catalog auctions.

I consigned a bat to a larger auction house not long ago and they had no problem putting it in their auction. The problem was they had 3 other Stan Musial game used bats in the same auction. It did horrible as I expected after seeing 3 of them. I had a Drysdale RootBeer card in an 8 and MemoryLane sent it back to me because they had a 9 from someone else in the auction. They did not want to list it because they thought it would be better to do it another time. That made my experience even more postive after the Musial Bast debacle with another company.
Tony

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Tony, if you were a bidder instead of a consignor would your feelings about JP Cohen and Memory Lane be different considerng what we have recently learned about ML's practices as noted in this thread and Cohen's past?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Tony. I only asked because my feeling is everyone pretty much has the same customers. To repeat, I'm sure your experience was positive but do you think they get higher prices than other major auction houses?

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

LEON politely challenged anyone to post where an advertiser had been protected. Leon made the challenge in this thread - not me guys! Just look at his 2:08PM post. So, I accepted the challenge and posted a thread which I felt he took up for an advertiser at the time. After Leon e-mailed me, it seems there was a lot that happened AFTER the thread that Leon can explain if he wishes. Anyway, I was simply answering Leon's request that was IN this thread. If Leon felt it was off topic he shouldn't have made the challenge in this thread - he should have started a seperate thread with the challenge. If everyone here worried as much about Mastro admitting to altering cards before having them graded as they do for a thread going "off-topic", you guys might actually do some good for the Hobby!!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Steve f

boomer84, that was some cold-ass'd post. Interesting thread otherwise.

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Posted By: leon

For the millionth time I have no issue with anyone challenging anything I do on the board. I asked for it Scott, and you provided it. I do think all of my actions were exactly as I would have done them today too.... As more info came about I made different decisions. At the very first it was right over the New Year so nothing could be done for several reasons. Then only part of the issue became known....as to wit the amount of alterations. As more came to light I changed my view on the subject....and in the end the right thing was done, imo. I will always move slowly in these matters as that's the way justice should be taken...again, imo. I won't do knee jerk reactions to almost anything. Justice is slow, gradual, and steady....and hopefully fair. If there are other issues with my moderating or banners lets do start a new thread. I don't want to take this one in a different direction and I don't want to "not" let folks bash me for the way I run this board either....it's all good....best regards

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Scott, I hardly think Mastro was not bashed for altering cards. We're just trying to keep the focus where it belongs today on this one Memory Lane-centric issue. Furthermore, it seems that you are channeling Dav. Do we need to perform an exorcism?

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Posted By: James Feagin

"Some guy at Virginia Tech just got his cards from Memory Lane"

Wow, that is beyond.....just wow.

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

<The card is replaced in the holder by a card that has been "doctored" and sent to the winning bidder. The orginal card is then submitted for grading.>


I could more than likely tell, just wish I could look at the card(s) and/or slabs in person. Maybe they will be at HollyPark this weekend? They usually are.

That frosted slab does not look good. If they doctored a card (a big if) why wouldn't they doctor the slab as well. Must be interns working there .

Kevin

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

Seinfeld or Steak Dinners - guess on here it depends more on who the poster is than how off topic the subject really is!?!? Sorry I am not one of the "clique" - I really don't want to be. I am happy with the friends I have in the Hobby and helping new collectors - not in being a member of the Net 54 Clique.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Does anyone find it troubling that neither Memory Lane nor PSA have bothered to address this situation yet?

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

they are probably in a mode thinking ignore it and it will eventually go away.

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Posted By: Mike

I find it very troubling. I am sure they think it will go away in a day or two.

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

I don't think WIWAG II is a possible explanation. You could not possibly foist off that many inferior Goudeys on unsuspecting buyers, and most all the slabs look fine besides. The far more likely explanation in my mind (assuming some of the Goudeys are the same card) is that the first group of cards for whatever reason did not actually sell, or were returned, and subsequently were reslabbed with different certs, although that -- and the reasons it might have happened -- both are still speculative at this point.