Bad Experience with attic-toys

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I wanted to relate a recent transaction that has turned out ugly. I sold attic-toys (Brendan Wells)on ebay on 1/18 and received payment on 1/19, sent the card on 1/20. He contacted me after a week that he had not receeived the card. I have tried to work with him and sent a copy of the reciept that it was sent, he did not take insurance on the card. He has since been rude and accused me of ripping him off and he is going to report me to ebay and Paypal, I think I will give him double the money to keep them off my baack. NOT

Be wary of transactions with attic-toys, Bredan Wells he seems like a loose cannon.

A Heads Up,

Lee

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Posted By: slacks

You didn't ask for advice, but...

You might want to work with him on this one. Another neg feedback from a 100% buyer (unless you neg him in relatiation!) might hurt you more than $18 worth.

I suggest you swallow hard, split it with him and put him on your no-bidder list.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I was willing to when the whole situation started but his emails became more and more hostile and has since filed a complaint with Paypal, on to my second point.

I received the complaint and this is how I need to respond to the complaint:

We are currently waiting for you to choose a resolution method for this complaint.

As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, you are required to resolve any complaints within 7 days of the filing date (by Feb. 18, 2004), using one of the following methods:

1. Provide a refund to the buyer for the full amount of the disputed transaction
2. Provide a tracking number that confirms proof of delivery to the buyer Confirmed Address
Provide proof of a previously issued refund to the buyer for the full amount of the disputed transaction
3. If you do not attempt to resolve this complaint in the specified time period, we will process the buyer's refund, and your access to your PayPal account may be limited.

I don't know about you guys but this certainly does not leave the seller in a very good position. They are asking for something that does not exist if the seller does not take insurance on the sale.

if anyone is interested I can send or post the complaint filed to Paypal.

About forking over the $28, or splitting it, that was an option until the guy got threatening and demanding and filed a complaint. I could give a rat's ass but the negative since I have hundreds of positives. Bad attitudes and being demanding get absolutely no where with me especially when I am in no way in the wrong.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The whole eBay feedback system is one big joke. People fear leaving negs because of the retaliatory neg. Also, being alble to look at just a seller's negs is impossible beucase eBay will let you look at just negs and neutrals, yet you can now look at just their buying or jsut their selling feedback. Helpfull, but not nbearly has helpfull as being able to look at just negs. I have screamed at eBay for years for this feature, but since I am not a PowerSeller, I am sure my opinion doesn't matter. Besides, being able to look at just negs would make many of their vaunted PowerSellers look as bad as they are. Not to mention, the standard for being a PowerSeller (98% positive feedback) is way too lax.

Jay

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Posted By: slacks

I disagree on one point. What they're saying is that you CAN see the negative feedback for anyone, but it has to be taken in context of all their feedback. So they make you scroll (and scroll and scroll) through tons of positive feedback for "good" eBayers. That exercise emphasizes the point that this is someone with much more good FB than bad.

People with lots of neg feedback are easier to out - it takes less scrolling. And that's how it should be. If you're a good seller, you want to show a difference between yourself and a bad seller. If you can easily pull up five neg for someone, many people might not see it in the conext of five good point vs. five thousand.

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Posted By: runscott

Let him know that you will be leaving him his first - he isn't going to want that.

Is it okay to mention in your listings that insurance is required if the item is paid for by Paypal?

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Posted By: Julie

scroll as I might, I couldn't find them! Can they be removed--or could they have been listed under an earlier handle?
It is NOT always possible to see all feedback from an ebayer who has changed his name, incidentally. I didn't mean to, but i apparently started a new thing when I registered under my new ebay name (because the old one was an e-mail address which no longer functioned). The old one (rvognar01@hom.com) hung around for about a year, but then it vanished without a trace, and all my early feedback with it.

14520sjowall (and there will be six auctions coming in under "twistedude")--if I'm lucky.

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Posted By: slacks

Do you mean 14520sjowall? Or is that you?

Anyway, 14520sjowall doesn't have any negative or neutral feedback history. The user registered in 2001 and hasn't changed their user name.

I'd be curious to see the seller who has a negative hisory but you can't look them up. Share.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I just got off the phone with Paypal and had no recourse but to refund the money because there is no tracking number for cards sent. i started another thread with the details.

I guess my recourse now is to require all Paypal purchases to have delivery confirmation and add the charge to the cost of the final sale.

Another win for the dishonest people of the world.

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Posted By: Joel

you just increased your shipping costs to the buyer and sent it with delivery confirmation......

or

offered "free shipping", but made the buyer pay for insurance

maybe there are other techniques to hide the fact that delivery confirmation or insurance is now your mode os selling.

i agree that dishonest people drive up the cost for honest people.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Joel, The addition of insurance is not good enough for Paypal since it does not have a tracking number. I am not real gungho on insurance for purchases under $100 because it is a pain in the ass to get resolution from the USPS. The thing I am thinking about doing is offering one shipping charge for money order purchases and one for Paypal purchases to cover the cost. Does anyone know if this is allowed within ebays policy?

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Posted By: jay behrens

For most of my card sales, I charge $3. That is usually enough to cover shipping plus Celivery Conformation for up to 5 cards, and includes the cost of a new mailing envelope. After that I start adding to the charge.

Charging differnt shipping for different payment is going make people wonder what you are up to. Just bite the bullet and use DC all the time. I've told you to do that before. he may be just one jerk out of hundreds, but was it really worth it not to pay for the DC?

Jay

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Posted By: jay behrens

Slacks, that would be all fine and good, but as has been pointed out, most people are afraid to leave negs, so they rarely get left. I don't care how good a seller is, I want to be able to find out what potential problems there might be.

Everything eBay does is to help out there sellers. I am sure that buyer/seller split was implemented so that sellers could look at just buyer feedback and see right away if bidder is a potential problem. There is no befenfit to sellers for people to be able to go look at just neg/neutrals, so eBay will most likely never impliment it.

Jay

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Posted By: slacks

The eBay feedback system is flawed. Agreed. Most people are afraid to leave deserved neg feedback because they might get it back. That's true.

However, I don't think it would be improved by making it easy to look at negative feedback without scrolling through positive feedback, for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post.

I think they are very careful about making changes to their feedback system, and no, conspiracy theorists, it's not because they favor buyers or sellers or Power Sellers or anyone not named "Behrens," it's because they are smart.

Like it or not, eBay is one of the Internet's success stories. They have a $45 billion market cap and actually make money. However, they have said repeatedly that their success rests on the feedback system, and a total overhaul is not on the way. Overall the system works okay, and I hope they;'ll work on buyer/seller selling aids. Their escrow system seems dead in the water, and seller protection may follow. But I'm sure they're working on it.

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Posted By: petecld

My 2 cents:

I still don't understand why people have so much of an issue with negative feedback. Who cares, once your feedback is high I don't think anyone even looks at your feedback. I've slammed EVERY non-bidder and seller who sent me nothing and have gotten the retalitory feedback and I could care less. I don't think it's hurt me at all.

Lee, you know you sent the card and have a receipt - (bleep) him. Stop using Paypal for taking payments and be sure to tell Paypal that. Tell the buyer to take a leap, he had the chance to protect himself and chose not to do so. If a receipt isn't proof of shipping, then what is? It's not like you can prove the buyer really didn't receive the item so why should his word be gold.

Lee, try contacting other sellers "attic-toys" has won from and see if he has pulled this before. I contributed to having a guy tossed off eBay because buyers who didn't buy insurance seemed to never receive their items. Hmmmm. . .

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Posted By: Julie

I will have him told "It makes me no nevermind if you don't pay. I put it back in my album, TYVM!"

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Posted By: Hankron

Lee, you should add a 25 cent or so charge to each of your shipping/handling charge. The accured money would likely pay for any future missing item. There's no reason to appologize for this, as you aren't a charity and it's the cost of doing business.

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Posted By: slacks

petecld wrote:

<<Who cares, once your feedback is high I don't think anyone even looks at your feedback.>>

Yeah they do. Ever read the eBay community boards or hear about user ID highjacking? Or newbies that get freaked about one neg feedback point?

<<I've slammed EVERY non-bidder and seller who sent me nothing and have gotten the retalitory feedback and I could care less.>>

Great - we need more like you. Seriously.

<<I don't think it's hurt me at all. >>

But you don't know this. Who knows how many newbie bidders stayed away because you had a recent neg? And who knows how much they would have bid? If you can live without them, fine, but don't say it hasn't hurt you, because that's the unknown quantity.

<< Lee, try contacting other sellers "attic-toys" has won from and see if he has pulled this before. I contributed to having a guy tossed off eBay because buyers who didn't buy insurance seemed to never receive their items. Hmmmm. . .>>

Attic-Toys has 477 positive commnets and no neutrals or negs. Doubtful that he's holding everyone hostage. Did you ever think that he's as p***** as Lee is because he didn't get the card he paid for?

Now to Lee: I'm sure you're an upstanding guy -- and that's the only reason I'm trying to hold you back (like your buddy in a bar when a drunk gets in your face). Right or wrong, more neg feedback might hurt you more than $18 to just give in.

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Posted By: dan mckee

If you have the white machine postal receipt with his city and state and zip on it, his paypal and ebay complaints will be null.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

and wound up refunding the money a couple of times. Depends on the transaction amount of course but sometimes the hassle of emails back and forth isn't worth it.

As for delivery confirmation, if the package is delivered it's a great service. You paid about a half buck to find out it was delivered. If it was lost, you paid about a half buck to get nothing.....doesn't insure the value of the goods or anything else.....so....who wins? The USPS. The vast majority of mail that's sent with delivery confirmation gets delivered, they spend a little time scanning the barcode label upon delivery. The mail that's lost or pilfered with delivery confirmation, no big deal cause it doesn't cost them--except in reputation. If the person's a scammer, then you have confirmation with D.C. but how many scammers like that are out there?

Insurance is excessive from USPS but on some items, you gotta do it. I generally force insurance around the $30-$40 mark and especially on stuff that you can't replace easily.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I do have the receipt but that is not good enough for Paypal, they require proof that the card was shipped to the proper address, not whether I got to the post office and sent it. We have became responsible for them post office involving Paypal transactions.

I am seriously considering taking Paypal off my selling as a option of payment. I would leave it for purchasing and if Net 54 board members wish to use it. This whole situation is unbelievable since I did absolutely nothing wrong and everything that is required of me and yet I am now out my money and my cards. Happy Happy, Joy, Joy.

I also agree with Pete on the feedback issue, I leave feedback immediately for people when they pay me so I have no recoourse of a negative when I sell.

Another point with Paypal on Delivery Confirmation is that it must be written if the transaction is over $250.

I have thought about sending him a nonpaying warning to be a pain. It's too bad I could not threaten him with a negative. I am have been able to change his toon. This guy supposedly got ripped off of $600 on ebay and I seem to be paying for part of it.

I'm going to bed

Lee

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Posted By: grilloj39

Even though you didn't insure the package, you still could have provided proof by asking for and keeping a receipt from the post office.

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Posted By: Julie

...but you can't loook up my earlier handle, rvognar01@home.com, because it'd been more than a year since it was used, and so they wasted it. So there went my 36 or so first feedbacks.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

The whole matter has been cleared up between me and the buyer. I finally got his attention after I sent him a Nonpayer notice. This caught his attention and I told him it could be cleared up with half payment, which he complied. So hopefully the cards show up some day and it will totally be resolved.

Lee

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Posted By: J

It's not his fault, any more than it's yours.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The point of the whole situation is that the guy did not pay for insurance on his purchase and Lee's auction clearly states that if you do so, it is at the buyer's risk.

Jay

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Posted By: J

before I postd. I KNEW it wan't that simple. But I had to go shooting off my mouth instead.

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Posted By: J

but he's promised it at least...