NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-10-2017, 09:46 AM
greco827's Avatar
greco827 greco827 is offline
Jason Greco
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 97
Default PSA "No Prints" / SC 350-460/30

I searched around a bit and couldn’t find this topic, so forgive me if this has been addressed.

PSA Certified T206 “No Prints”… I assume this means T206’s with backs not previously before believed to exist, but wanted to confirm that assumption. It seems the bulk of them are Sweet Caporal 350-460/30, and graded only as Authentic (Altered). In addition, if they are in fact a front/back combination which previously wasn’t verified, wouldn’t the fact that PSA authenticated them now include them in the SC 350-460 series? Rube Manning (Pitching), for example, has been authenticated 4 times by PSA.

Should the 24 players (42 total cards) authenticated by PSA from the SC350-460/30 series lead to the conclusion that factory 30 did in fact produce print group 3 cards as part of that set?
__________________
****Southern League****
Old Mill (SL) PSA 3: 3/48
Old Mill (SL) PSA 4: 5/48
Hindu Brown: 1/34

****NY Highlanders Team Set****
Basic Team Set: 13/28
Master Team Set: 13/315

Last edited by greco827; 10-10-2017 at 09:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:38 AM
brass_rat's Avatar
brass_rat brass_rat is offline
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 987
Default

These cards come from a group that were sold raw on eBay over a period of months. They were neatly hand cut, not factory cut, so they graded PSA AA.

Other people here can provide much more information on the totals, I'm sure.

Given that they were not factory cut and these were the only examples of the backs on these "no print" cards, PSA didn't want to include them in the normal pop reports, but they agreed to list them in a section so that people can see the holdered populations in addition to cert verification.

This is my Cobb...one of three that were sold, I believe.

Cheers,
Steve

Last edited by brass_rat; 10-10-2017 at 10:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-10-2017, 11:04 AM
greco827's Avatar
greco827 greco827 is offline
Jason Greco
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 97
Default

OK, that makes sense. So since all known examples of SC350-460/30 were hand-cut, it is believed they were never inserted into packs of tobacco, and therefore are not considered part of the 350-460/30 print run.

The fact that they exist though, wouldn't that lead them to the inclusion of the print run, or at least a subset of that print run? Perhaps factory cut examples would need to surface, although they are either super scarce, or non-existent, or they would have likely seen the light of day by now.

Any knowledge of their origin or speculation on how they came to be? Were they possibly from an uncut factory sheet with the factory designation printed on the back by mistake, and simply taken home by an employee, i.e., scrap?

Great Cobb by the way!
__________________
****Southern League****
Old Mill (SL) PSA 3: 3/48
Old Mill (SL) PSA 4: 5/48
Hindu Brown: 1/34

****NY Highlanders Team Set****
Basic Team Set: 13/28
Master Team Set: 13/315

Last edited by greco827; 10-10-2017 at 11:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-10-2017, 11:39 AM
Luke's Avatar
Luke Luke is offline
Luke Lyon
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,937
Default

The generally accepted theory on these is that they were all supposed to get the Factory 42 Scroll Overprint, but were scrapped and cut up before the overprint could be printed.

All of the "no prints" are in the SC 350-460 Fact 42 Overprint Subset, so it's overwhelmingly likely they were supposed to get the Overprint.
__________________
ThatT206Life.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-10-2017, 11:47 AM
greco827's Avatar
greco827 greco827 is offline
Jason Greco
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 97
Default

Luke and Steve, thank you very much. That makes perfect sense. This is why I'm here! Thanks for the knowledge share!
__________________
****Southern League****
Old Mill (SL) PSA 3: 3/48
Old Mill (SL) PSA 4: 5/48
Hindu Brown: 1/34

****NY Highlanders Team Set****
Basic Team Set: 13/28
Master Team Set: 13/315
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-10-2017, 12:27 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greco827 View Post
I searched around a bit and couldn’t find this topic, so forgive me if this has been addressed.

PSA Certified T206 “No Prints”… I assume this means T206’s with backs not previously before believed to exist, but wanted to confirm that assumption. It seems the bulk of them are Sweet Caporal 350-460/30, and graded only as Authentic (Altered). In addition, if they are in fact a front/back combination which previously wasn’t verified, wouldn’t the fact that PSA authenticated them now include them in the SC 350-460 series? Rube Manning (Pitching), for example, has been authenticated 4 times by PSA.

Hi Jason

Here is a link for more information regarding these so-called "No-Prints" cards (obviously these cards were printed, but not inserted in cigarette packs from the New York Factory #30).
Check-out Post #181 in this link...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...237816&page=19

Here is a SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #30 card with the Factory #42 overprint. Exactly 109 subjects (63 of the 350/460 series and 46 of the 460-only series) were overprinted,
since the SWEET CAPORAL cigarette production was being transferred to the Durham, NC Factory #42.






Quote:
Originally Posted by greco827 View Post
Should the 24 players (42 total cards) authenticated by PSA from the SC350-460/30 series lead to the conclusion that factory 30 did in fact produce print group 3 cards as part of that set?
Incidentally,
All the T206's were printed at the American Lithographic Co. in New York and shipped to the various Factory's in the ATC system.. These ATC Factory's did NOT print these cards.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 10-10-2017 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-10-2017, 01:44 PM
greco827's Avatar
greco827 greco827 is offline
Jason Greco
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 97
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Jason

Here is a link for more information regarding these so-called "No-Prints" cards (obviously these cards were printed, but not inserted in cigarette packs from the New York Factory #30).
Check-out Post #181 in this link...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...237816&page=19

Here is a SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #30 card with the Factory #42 overprint. Exactly 109 subjects (63 of the 350/460 series and 46 of the 460-only series) were overprinted,
since the SWEET CAPORAL cigarette production was being transferred to the Durham, NC Factory #42.








Incidentally,
All the T206's were printed at the American Lithographic Co. in New York and shipped to the various Factory's in the ATC system.. These ATC Factory's did NOT print these cards.


TED Z
.
Ted, thank you. This is very informational, as is the rest of this thread. This leads me to another question however, in which it is theorized that T206's were cut from sheets which had 3 or 4 of the same card printed vertically, explaining the miscuts which contain the name of the same player pictured. If that is the case, and these were all cut from the same sheet, can we assume that there are at least 3 and maybe 4 examples of each of these cards? The Manning (Pitching) has been graded 4 times by PSA, which would lead to the conclusion that sheets were of 132 cards.
__________________
****Southern League****
Old Mill (SL) PSA 3: 3/48
Old Mill (SL) PSA 4: 5/48
Hindu Brown: 1/34

****NY Highlanders Team Set****
Basic Team Set: 13/28
Master Team Set: 13/315
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-10-2017, 02:47 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 10,053
Default

Jason

I think the only fact we can be certain of is that a given T206 subject was double-printed on a sheet. The four Manning's could be the result of multiple sheets.

By the way, welcome to this forum.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-10-2017, 03:02 PM
greco827's Avatar
greco827 greco827 is offline
Jason Greco
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 97
Default

Fair enough, and thanks for the welcome! I find all of this very intriguing, almost to the point of being archaeological, which is pretty damn cool.
__________________
****Southern League****
Old Mill (SL) PSA 3: 3/48
Old Mill (SL) PSA 4: 5/48
Hindu Brown: 1/34

****NY Highlanders Team Set****
Basic Team Set: 13/28
Master Team Set: 13/315
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-10-2017, 09:00 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
Ron Kornacki - Uncle Nacki
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,002
Default

Hi Jason, So far 120 of these cards have surfaced over the past few years. There are actually 28 different cards known. As far as them all being printed or surviving in equal numbers, maybe but so far it doesn't add up. Individual card quantities range from 1 to 8 for each of the 28 cards. So either there are more out there to equal out the numbers or they have been lost over the years. Otherwise the Lajoie With Bat being a quantity of 1 would make the regular Factory 42 Overprint card of the same, a short printed card. That's why I love the T206 set. There's so much mystery.
__________________
Ron - Uncle Nacki

T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki
T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-10-2017, 09:19 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
Ron Kornacki - Uncle Nacki
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brass_rat View Post
These cards come from a group that were sold raw on eBay over a period of months. They were neatly hand cut, not factory cut, so they graded PSA AA.

Other people here can provide much more information on the totals, I'm sure.

Given that they were not factory cut and these were the only examples of the backs on these "no print" cards, PSA didn't want to include them in the normal pop reports, but they agreed to list them in a section so that people can see the holdered populations in addition to cert verification.

This is my Cobb...one of three that were sold, I believe.

Cheers,
Steve
Hi Steve, Great looking Cobb. That looks like the last Cobb of the 3 that was auctioned on ebay.
__________________
Ron - Uncle Nacki

T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki
T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-10-2017, 09:41 PM
brass_rat's Avatar
brass_rat brass_rat is offline
Steve
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie73 View Post
Hi Steve, Great looking Cobb. That looks like the last Cobb of the 3 that was auctioned on ebay.
Thanks, Ron -- and you're correct, it is the last Cobb that was auctioned. The seller advertised it as the last card in the group, so I let him know that I had bid under the condition that it was truthful advertising. As far as I can tell, it was -- so I'm very happy.

The bat off Cobb is by far my favorite of the T206 Cobb poses.

Cheers,
Steve
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:05 AM
greco827's Avatar
greco827 greco827 is offline
Jason Greco
member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 97
Default

Seems rather than no-prints, perhaps they should have been labelled as No-OP or missing OP. Either way, same result, just a bit more confusing. It also would have been nice if PSA used a designation on the card, rather than just slabbing them as 350-460/30, which makes them appear to be a legitimate part of this back run/factory combination.
__________________
****Southern League****
Old Mill (SL) PSA 3: 3/48
Old Mill (SL) PSA 4: 5/48
Hindu Brown: 1/34

****NY Highlanders Team Set****
Basic Team Set: 13/28
Master Team Set: 13/315
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-11-2017, 12:26 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
Ron Kornacki - Uncle Nacki
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greco827 View Post
Seems rather than no-prints, perhaps they should have been labelled as No-OP or missing OP. Either way, same result, just a bit more confusing. It also would have been nice if PSA used a designation on the card, rather than just slabbing them as 350-460/30, which makes them appear to be a legitimate part of this back run/factory combination.
I agree on both, what we call them and how PSA notes it. The "No Print" I think just kind of caught on because of the website t206resource.com because cards that are not suppose to exist due to printing patterns are listed as "No" or "Probable No Print". The PSA part is actually being worked on. So hopefully the inserts will be noted in the future and the back sub-set will be added to the set registry.
__________________
Ron - Uncle Nacki

T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki
T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:19 PM
t206fix's Avatar
t206fix t206fix is offline
Tony Davis
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,184
Default

The seller also sold a lot of hand cut SC460 f30 possible prints when he was selling the no prints. I owned two of the Hummels from those auctions.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237566
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sweet caporal, t206



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please explain "no prints" to me. Sailingmachine Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 8 02-16-2017 10:07 AM
T206 SURVEY.....Sovereign "NO - PRINTS" ? ? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 57 06-17-2007 03:14 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:25 AM.


ebay GSB