AH Blues

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Still waiting to hear your answer Peter.

If it's all the same money...Why do we need a buyer's premium at all?

Maybe from an accounting perspective it makes it simpler to keep track of what you pay the consignor and what you keep, than having to calculate percentages of the hammer price in a seller's fee world, but I really don't know or care. You have to do it one way or the other and it comes out to the same thing. Unless of course you think AHs should not take in any money.

Why don't you explain to us why you, knowing a premium is going to be added to your bid and presumably taking that into account like the overwhelming majority of people, care what convention is used for the AH's cut?

[TanksAndSpartans]

Some auction houses now show the BP right in the dropdown when you make the bid which I think is a nice feature.

For the question of why to go with an eBay consigner, I don't think there is any question that it's because you get to keep more of the total amount the buyer pays. For a graded card from a popular set, the eBay route makes a lot of sense to me. For an item that's more of a niche collectable, I think it makes sense to go with the AH, with the hope they will be able to get the right eyeballs on it. Thinking of myself, I don't even bother to keep eBay searches on programs etc. stuff that I know rarely gets auctioned off on eBay - my graded card searches on the other hand turn up hits almost every day.

[RedsFan1941]

if i am correctly following the logic of at least one person, he would rather buy a card on the BST or eBay for $1,000 -- with no evil buyer's premium to deal with -- than get the same card for an $800 bid from an auction house, because it means the total price actually would be $960 with the BP?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

if i am correctly following the logic of at least one person, he would rather buy a card on the BST or eBay for $1,000 -- with no evil buyer's premium to deal with -- than get the same card for an $800 bid from an auction house, because it means the total price actually would be $960 with the BP?

How do you even make such a connection? Who am I dealing with here? Forrest Gump?

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

How do you even make such a connection? Who am I dealing with here? Forrest Gump?

apparently. after CMIZ5290, you’re the smartest guy in the room.

[ejharrington]

I have a question I have been meaning to ask on this board and relates to the topic of this conversation. If I wanted to consign a high-priced item(s) with one of the big auction houses such as REA, Heritage, etc., do I:

a) pay a consignment fee PLUS the buyer's premium of, say, 20%,
b) a consignment fee ONLY,
c) ONLY the buyer's premium of, say, 20%.

Also, I have seen references to the big auction houses waiving or reducing fees for larger priced items. Are they waiving or reducing the consignment fee, the buyer's premium, and/or both? Also, is there an approximate dollar threshold that the AH's consider when determining whether to waive or reduce the fees?

I would appreciate any feedback that people could provide.

[sb1]

While I can't answer for the "big auction houses", I can tell you that when anyone consigns with my auction (Brockelman Auctions), they pay no consignment fees of any kind, the buyers pay a low 12 1/2% premium.

Scott

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

I have a question I have been meaning to ask on this board and relates to the topic of this conversation. If I wanted to consign a high-priced item(s) with one of the big auction houses such as REA, Heritage, etc., do I:

a) pay a consignment fee PLUS the buyer's premium of, say, 20%,
b) a consignment fee ONLY,
c) ONLY the buyer's premium of, say, 20%.

Also, I have seen references to the big auction houses waiving or reducing fees for larger priced items. Are they waiving or reducing the consignment fee, the buyer's premium, and/or both? Also, is there an approximate dollar threshold that the AH's consider when determining whether to waive or reduce the fees?

I would appreciate any feedback that people could provide.

B.) and they're paying the consignment fee only

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

I have a question I have been meaning to ask on this board and relates to the topic of this conversation. If I wanted to consign a high-priced item(s) with one of the big auction houses such as REA, Heritage, etc., do I:

a) pay a consignment fee PLUS the buyer's premium of, say, 20%,
b) a consignment fee ONLY,
c) ONLY the buyer's premium of, say, 20%.

Also, I have seen references to the big auction houses waiving or reducing fees for larger priced items. Are they waiving or reducing the consignment fee, the buyer's premium, and/or both? Also, is there an approximate dollar threshold that the AH's consider when determining whether to waive or reduce the fees?

I would appreciate any feedback that people could provide.

In my opinion an auction house should never adjust the buyers premium in order to get a consignment. If they did adjust the buyer's premium for you, you would have an unfair advantage over other bidders in the auction. Not sure of the legality of it, but seems like creating an unfair bidding platform would at least be unethical.

Auction houses can always adjust your sellers fee for a specific item or consignor. This doesn't create an unfair bidding platform as it shouldn't give you an advantage in bidding on items. It would only put more money in your pocket for the items you consigned. This is one way they can entice a consignor. Most AH's today start with a 0% sellers fee. I know I would have to have a really good reason to consign something with a seller's premium. For high demand, high value items, you can negotiate that fee/item placement/etc and even sometime get a negative sellers fee (a portion of the buyer's premium). As far as when they will waive it or reduce it, that's all up to the individual AH. Some advertise discounts for certain items, some keep it more private. Best bet is to call the AH that you're interested in and see what they will do.

DJ

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe from an accounting perspective it makes it simpler to keep track of what you pay the consignor and what you keep, than having to calculate percentages of the hammer price in a seller's fee world, but I really don't know or care. You have to do it one way or the other and it comes out to the same thing. Unless of course you think AHs should not take in any money.

Why don't you explain to us why you, knowing a premium is going to be added to your bid and presumably taking that into account like the overwhelming majority of people, care what convention is used for the AH's cut?

You're making a bold assumption that every winning bid is suppressed by the exact amount of the buyer's premium in every instance. Dollar for dollar. Percentage point for percentage point. BP equals 20%...High bid is suppressed 20%. BP 10%...High bid supressed 10%.

While the BP does suppress bidding. I don't think it's close to a dollar for dollar match....and the discrepancy there is borne by the buyer...not the seller.

And therefore it's not the same. It's additional.

Except for you and a few of your cronies. Who abide by the 20% off rule when determining your high bid...every time...without fail.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Except for you and a few of your cronies. Who abide by the 20% off rule when determining your high bid...every time...without fail.

Comic gold!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Comic gold!!!

You can't make this stuff up. No one would believe you. LOL

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You're making a bold assumption that every winning bid is suppressed by the exact amount of the buyer's premium in every instance. Dollar for dollar. Percentage point for percentage point. BP equals 20%...High bid is suppressed 20%. BP 10%...High bid supressed 10%.

While the BP does suppress bidding. I don't think it's close to a dollar for dollar match....and the discrepancy there is borne by the buyer...not the seller.

And therefore it's not the same. It's additional.

Except for you and a few of your cronies. Who abide by the 20% off rule when determining your high bid...every time...without fail.

It is never additional in my case. If I am willing to pay 1000 for a card, I will snipe at 1000 (including shipping) on Ebay. If I get the card fine, if not fine. With an AH, I see where the next position is. If it is under 1000(with BP and estimated shipping), I will place the bid. If it is more than 1000, I am done. It is really not that hard. I am not bidding 1000 and then being surprised that I have to pay 1200 plus shipping. It may not work out dollar for dollar, but it is pretty close.

[Leon]

Looney logic if I have ever heard it.

When was the last time a fee was "surprised on you" mid auction? Otherwise, unless you can't read the rules, there are no surprises. Most collectors figure out how to add the 20% to their bid BEFORE the AH does it for them once the lot is closed to bids. Adding 20% (or whatever the BP is) is not that easy I guess....for some. I have bid in hundreds if not thousands of AH auctions and haven't been surprised by the BP yet.

Originally Posted by rats60

It is never additional in my case. If I am willing to pay 1000 for a card, I will snipe at 1000 (including shipping) on Ebay. If I get the card fine, if not fine. With an AH, I see where the next position is. If it is under 1000(with BP and estimated shipping), I will place the bid. If it is more than 1000, I am done. It is really not that hard. I am not bidding 1000 and then being surprised that I have to pay 1200 plus shipping. It may not work out dollar for dollar, but it is pretty close.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Leon

Looney logic if I have ever heard it.

When was the last time a fee was "surprised on you" mid auction? Otherwise, unless you can't read the rules, there are no surprises. Most collectors figure out how to add the 20% to their bid BEFORE the AH does it for them once the lot is closed to bids. Adding 20% (or whatever the BP is) is not that easy I guess....for some. I have bid in hundreds if not thousands of AH auctions and haven't been surprised by the BP yet.

The only time I've ever been surprised in my bidding history is with shipping a time or two.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Leon

Looney logic if I have ever heard it.

When was the last time a fee was "surprised on you" mid auction? Otherwise, unless you can't read the rules, there are no surprises. Most collectors figure out how to add the 20% to their bid BEFORE the AH does it for them once the lot is closed to bids. Adding 20% (or whatever the BP is) is not that easy I guess....for some. I have bid in hundreds if not thousands of AH auctions and haven't been surprised by the BP yet.

How is it Looney logic? If I want to pay 1000, I am not paying more no matter the platform or format.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rats60

How is it Looney logic? If I want to pay 1000, I am not paying more no matter the platform or format.

Perfect. Then you bid up to the amount where you will spend $1000 with whatever fee(s) included. Problem solved. I think you are making it more difficult than it needs to be. A lot of us say to ourselves "I am not going over xx amount" then we deduct the fee pecentage and that is what we bid (assuming we are also understanding there are usually shipping charges to be thrown in too). If you can spend a $1000 then just bid up to $800......then add the Buyers Premium, which is usually 20% to your $800 bid, and that is $960, which leaves $40 for shipping.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Perfect. Then you bid up to the amount where you will $1000 with whatever fee(s) included. Problem solved. I think you are making it more difficult than it needs to be. A lot of us say to ourselves "I am not going over xx amount" then we deduct the fee pecentage and that, and that is what we bid (assuming we are also understanding there are usually shipping charges to be thrown in too). If you can spend a $1000 then just bid up to $800......add the Buyers Premium, which is usually 20% to your $800 bid, and that is $960, which leaves $40 for shipping.

I think you guys are in agreement, not disagreement?

[Fballguy]

And there it is. "A lot" Not all...as some assume. At least Leon is being realistic.

A lot probably do...especially those on this forum. And just as true...a lot probably don't. They bid to win and then endure the BP afterwards.

I think some of you have conformed your logic to fit in with the old school auction rules. "This is the way it is, so how can I rationalize it in a way that makes it more palatable?".

Funny...I looked up the definition of bid. It's the offer of a certain price for something. Didn't see anything in there about multiplying by 1.2 to get to that price.

Originally Posted by Leon

Perfect. Then you bid up to the amount where you will spend $1000 with whatever fee(s) included. Problem solved. I think you are making it more difficult than it needs to be. A lot of us say to ourselves "I am not going over xx amount" then we deduct the fee pecentage and that is what we bid (assuming we are also understanding there are usually shipping charges to be thrown in too). If you can spend a $1000 then just bid up to $800......then add the Buyers Premium, which is usually 20% to your $800 bid, and that is $960, which leaves $40 for shipping.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You're making a bold assumption that every winning bid is suppressed by the exact amount of the buyer's premium in every instance. Dollar for dollar. Percentage point for percentage point. BP equals 20%...High bid is suppressed 20%. BP 10%...High bid supressed 10%.

While the BP does suppress bidding. I don't think it's close to a dollar for dollar match....and the discrepancy there is borne by the buyer...not the seller.

And therefore it's not the same. It's additional.

Except for you and a few of your cronies. Who abide by the 20% off rule when determining your high bid...every time...without fail.

You raise up your head and you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says, "It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?" and somebody else says, "Well, what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God, am I here all alone?"
But something is happening and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You raise up your head and you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says, "It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?" and somebody else says, "Well, what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God, am I here all alone?"
But something is happening and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

If the value of your humor had a 20% BP, I'd have nothing to complain about.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If the value of your humor had a 20% BP, I'd have nothing to complain about.

Imagine the obvious response -- change humor to -----.