Black Sox Collecting

[ErikV]

I've got a couple of questions to throw out to the board for
consideration. What draws collectors to collect Black Sox
cards or other forms of Black Sox memorabilia?

Second, besides baseball cards, what's the second most
popular form of Black Sox collecting?

Any input (including photos) would be appreciated.

ErikV

[baseballart]

How about embossed covers?

[Brian Van Horn]

"What draws collectors to collect Black Sox
cards or other forms of Black Sox memorabilia?"

The scandal.

It's also what draws people to Al Capone. It is the attraction of evil and how could it happen? It is the attraction of the moth to the flame.

You could call it a type of emotional voyeurism into the dark side.

Other than that, I'm indifferent.

[3-2-count]

"What draws collectors to collect Black Sox
cards or other forms of Black Sox memorabilia?"


For me it's specfic characters for sure.......... I love Buck!!

[DixieBaseball]

It's the whole bad boy image in the face of the establishment. Lefty was a bad boy for sure, and was a former Nashville Vol, so this is my only Black Sox card :

[wonkaticket]

Sure the scandal, but for me it’s also the human factor. I think seeing the real life scenarios play out of peer pressure, social & economic pressures, big business and the little guy. Plus the corruption mixed with naivety of some and the planned angles of others. Add in a hero’s fall from grace and it really has it all. One of the great and tragic stories of our past let alone national pastime.




Cheers,

John

P.S. Great cards Tony! That has to be the nicest 2 on the planet...

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

One of the great and tragic stories of our past let alone (our) national pastime.

About says it all.

[wonkaticket]

David amazing photos!

[jb217676]

The scandal caught my interest when I first watched Eight Men Out, always felt bad for Buck Weaver and Shoeless Joe. As far as other items to collect besides cards, I think there are some great postcards featuring the White Sox of that era.

[Ladder7]

The scandal attracts many collectors to prewar. People like rebels.

[mcadams]

The acts themsevles are an important part of the sports history, but I find the response to the situation to be most important. The public outcry and severe punishments handed out..it all served to cement the high regard to which we hold the game. We demand more honesty and integrity out of baseball players than we do many other professions and I think its because we care more about our sport. I like it that way. I think the '19 Black Sox scandal creates an attractive event to collect because, despite the actions of the players, the response represents the high regard that FANS held the game back then and still do. If the scandal would have taken place with other sports of the day, would we have cared?

[Leon]

Scandals make news and this one was with our American Pastime. Swift action was taken and some great players banned permanently. It's a story for the ages...

[Jacklitsch]

[53Browns]

I always found it interesting what was said in the Ken Burn's Baseball documentary. They said, the Black Sox Scandal almost ruined baseball, then Kennesaw Mountain Landis came and brought integrity to the game and then Babe Ruth came and saved baseball by making everyone draw their attention to the great aspects of the game. I had never thought of it like that before.

Personally, to me it is like a Greek tragedy, especially when it comes to Shoeless Joe, who is now a haunted and almost mythical figure.

[bobbvc]

Some time between 1911-1919. Mineral Wells, Tex. Anyone recognize the player?

[Bicem]

pretty neat, I camp in Mineral Wells.

[novakjr]

Aside from everything else, these men have also been brought even further to the forefront because of the movie. Background and everything else considered, a movie can add even more to the charm of a collectible or card. Take James Braddock as an example, yes, his story was nice, and yes, he was once the heavyweight champ, but the "Cinderella Man" took him from falling into obscurity(with the exception of the boxing die-hards), to once again a household name... Braddock's stuff took a pretty nice spike in price after the movie came out. I imagine "Eight Men Out" had a similar effect on the Black Sox collectibles. Obviously, not quite to the extent of Braddock, but similar nonetheless.

[uffda51]

I've got a Black Sox page at imageevent:

http://imageevent.com/uffda51/1919chicagoblacksox

[quinnsryche]

I am on the other side of the fence from most on this one. As a White Sox fan I find it ebarassing and shameful to be associated with such an act. I actively avoid any and all cards of the "Black Sox" and only look at their actions with disdain. There is nothing romantic or cool about what they did. I know others have been involved in such actions in baseball history (Chase & the like) but that doesn't make it right. Collect what you like, I'm not judging, but I will not partake in the glamourization of such criminal actions in the game I truly love more than any other.
Peace!

[Matt]

Oversized PC:

[ValKehl]

Gandil with the Senators.

[71buc]

1920 News item

[Bosox Blair]

Borderline Hall-of-Fame career flushed down the old john...

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

I am on the other side of the fence from most on this one. As a White Sox fan I find it ebarassing and shameful to be associated with such an act. I actively avoid any and all cards of the "Black Sox" and only look at their actions with disdain. There is nothing romantic or cool about what they did. I know others have been involved in such actions in baseball history (Chase & the like) but that doesn't make it right. Collect what you like, I'm not judging, but I will not partake in the glamourization of such criminal actions in the game I truly love more than any other.
Peace!

Interesting tha you feel this way considering the tight wad owner certainly contributated to the way the palyeres felt hence the reason they felt the needed a pay day.

I don't think what they did was right but there is a lot more to it then just some greedy players looking for a pay out.

James G

[quinnsryche]

James, I understand that Comiskey was a jerk and cheapskate but that doesn't excuse what the players did. Just because my boss is a cheapskate doesn't give me the right to steal from the company. Those players signed contracts to play for a certain amount of money, if they didn't like it, they could go back to working in the mines or carrying ice etc. I get a tad tired of the "oh poor players" excuse as most made 100X what the average worker of those days made. We're they paid and treated like the players of today? No, but they didn't suffer much either considering the alternative.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

James, I understand that Comiskey was a jerk and cheapskate but that doesn't excuse what the players did. Just because my boss is a cheapskate doesn't give me the right to steal from the company. Those players signed contracts to play for a certain amount of money, if they didn't like it, they could go back to working in the mines or carrying ice etc. I get a tad tired of the "oh poor players" excuse as most made 100X what the average worker of those days made. We're they paid and treated like the players of today? No, but they didn't suffer much either considering the alternative.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

It was more then just being a jerk and a cheapskate. He did whatever he wanted to that was in his best interest. That including not talking to Jackson, benching Cicotte so he wouldn't get his bonus and god know what else. Sure they were treated better then coal workers but they were still taken advantage of to a high degree.

My point is that if you love the team and hate what the players did that you have to hate the owner as well, which IMO makes it tough to love the team when Comiskey pretty much made the team. I just feel that if commy wasn't so selfish this might not have occured.

Anyway to keep up with the nature of the post, here are some of my goodies.















Some of these photos are a bit out of date as I have upgraded many of these and added others that aren't shown.

James G

[E93]

Tony,
Nice BL T207 with Lionel Carter prov!!!


There are so many other amazing cards and photos here.
JimB

Here is one of my favorite CJs:

[E93]

One more CJ

[wonkaticket]

Wow guys great stuff!

Jim when I grow up which my wife says is doubtful I wan't to be you!

Nice cards.

[tbob]

Judge Landis didn't bring integrity to the game IMHO. He was a self-serving, overblown and overbearing, arrogant racist who made sure African-Americans didn't get in to MLB until after he was no longer commissioner. He also turned a blind eye to Speaker, Cobb and other players yet crucified the Black Sox. He was appointed commissioner because he sold out to the owners in a previous case. Granted he told the owners he was the sole power and made them subservient but that was probably due to his arrogant attitude more than anything else.
Babe Ruth saved baseball. Period.

[drdduet]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

Some time between 1911-1919. Mineral Wells, Tex. Anyone recognize the player?

Dick Egan with some white sox guy on his back?

[ErikV]

There have been some great items in response to this
post. Thanks to all who replied. I love reading opinions
about the Black Sox Scandal which has also been fun to
read. Part of the initial post has not been addressed yet:

Besides baseball cards, what's the second most popular
form of Black Sox collecting (ie, photos, bats, memorabilia,
autographs, etc.)

Keep the responses coming.....

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by ErikV

Part of the initial post has not been addressed yet:

Besides baseball cards, what's the second most popular
form of Black Sox collecting (ie, photos, bats, memorabilia,
autographs, etc.)

Keep the responses coming.....

I think after cards is it is ticket stubs programs and other things directly from the games.

James G

[ksfarmboy]

My favorite Black Sox item.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by ksfarmboy

My favorite Black Sox item.

WOW that is UBER cool. I have never seen that before but the D&M stuff is a good way to get a period item cheap with some great pictures and content. Usually the covers are not player specific like this one.

I prefer cards but the other stuff is very cool.

This is one piece that I really like with killer pictures and content. Also has a picture of the 1915 champs in the centerfold.





James G