About Beckett and SCD

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I was looking through a 1985 Beckett the other day, which said on the cover "almost every card in existance" is in here. There was nothing from the 19th century,. No WONDER I didn't start collecting old stuff till the '90s. It was amusing, because many 19th century ollectors and dealers were advertising in it, so you'd see these pictures of Old Judges interspersed with Fleers and Donrusses. The publisher himself included a few black and white photos of 19th century stuff--but not a checklist or a set price, nor an individual price. It was as if he were saying "these couldn't possibly interest you, except in passing."


I can't BELIEVE how cheap everything was...so recently.
Nobody had discovered Dummy Hoy, or the Black Sox except marginally for Jackson--I mean, his cards were more expensive than other "commons," but only about the same as minor HOFers.

This reminds me: why is the 2002 SCD Guide still listing the near mint/mint Wagner for 600,000+? Last year, I figured he had all the type set before the auction, but that's no longer an excuse. Is it because it's graded? Aha. That may be it.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The early Beckett's had 19th century cards in them. I am pretty sure the second edition (1981) had OJs and other 19th century issues. I think Lee still has that Beckett somewhere. I know I have not seen it in my stuff since I left MN.

Jay

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

Hello Julie, We continue to list the T206 at $640,000 because we list vintage cards in NM condition, not NM-MT. You realize there is often a huge difference in value.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Ah yes, I see the difference, a near mint vs. a near mint/mint. Ah yes...

There are NO 19th CENTURY CArds in my 1985 BECKETT!!!

(1, maybe, but not 85...

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

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Posted By: Plastic Dog

The early Becketts (including #1) had a section at the back entitled "Price Guide for Other Sets" and listed a number of more obscure sets, including the 19th century stuff. The first time that Old Judges were actually checklisted was in 1986 (#8). But remember, Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia didn't begin to make an appearance until 1983 (vol. 1) and was reprinted again in 1987. That said, the Sports Collectors Bible was already available (the first 3 printings were 1975, 77, and 79) and Erbe's American Premium Guide to Baseball Cards, with extensive checklists (including some interesting Old Judge team checklists) was issued in 1982.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

although they acknowledge the existnce of 19th century cards in their glossery (of terms) under "cabinets" and "N"), and in their "history of baseball cards," there are no checklists, individual prices, or catalogued pictures ANYWHERE. In Lipset's ads, and Beckett and E. put a couple of cabinets at the bottom of a page an identified them.2 of Lipset's books were already out, and they mention them, under references,as "a good place to look for cards before 1930." (sic!)

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Posted By: Plastic Dog

Numbers 1, 2, and 3 had a section at the back entitled "Price Guide for Other Sets" and listed a number of more obscure sets, including the 19th century stuff. Numbers 4 (1982) and 5 (1983) actually checklisted Old Judges and other 19th c sets. For some reason, Numbers 6 (1984) and 7 (1985) omitted the 19th c checklists as well as the "Price Guide for Other Sets" altogether. The checklists reappeared in Number 8. So Julie, you happen to be looking at one of the two editions of the Beckett that omitted the 19th c. Just bad luck.

Tom

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Sorry. I have some of the others, too. I just picked Number 7 because it was in better shape than the others.

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Posted By: runscott

I just attempted to send out the vintage links list and your address was "unmailable" - thanks

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I found one of my own cards in the Old Judge link. The Pud Galvin, furthest to the left. It's missing a triangle of emulsion lower right-hand corner. Terry Knause just sold it to me.

Also, when your list first came out, Joe Jackson's testimony in court was quite an eyeful. (under wwwblackbetsy.com). He doesn't seem so stupid. I remember one thing he said, "If you hang out with crooks, you tend to become crooked yourself." Or something like that. (I know illiterate doesn't mean stupid, but I had read and been told by many people that he was stupid, and had no sense of humor).

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Posted By: runscott

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Posted By: David

He owned a liquor store, so must of had a brain or two (or lost a brain cell or two). I think Barry Halper owned (re-cycled through MastroNet if I recall correctly) was a small spiral/lined notepad that he wrote typical counter/sale henscratched notes on in pencil. On one page he wrote some else's name who also happened to be named Joe. Even though the Joe was someone else, the pad sold for something like $8,000. And, to be candid, I bid or considered bidding on it (when it was at a much lower bid price), as I like oddities like that and that it would be as close to a Jackson signature as I could come.

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Posted By: runscott

just looks like chicken-scratch to me. Also up is a "Mrs. Joe" signature.