Reporting live from the Hunts Ted Williams auction

[scooter729]

STRONG prices thus far through the first 100-ish items. Most signed pieces have been beating estimates (Bush / Ted / Joe D. pics bringing over $1K each).

The most impressive items thus far have included Williams' WWII and Korea flight logs ($15K - $20K) and a game bat (almost $50k).

The signed checks are bringing more than I expected, considering the quantity of them available (over a thousand). They are bringing an average of $200 per check at least.

Some big items coming up later - this will be fun to see how it goes!

[Splinte1941]

I landed lot #37. That signature is fantastic. I'm hoping the photo came from his personal collection but regardless I'm happy to have it.

[Giants00]

is it crowded there?

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

I landed lot #37. That signature is fantastic. I'm hoping the photo came from his personal collection but regardless I'm happy to have it.

That's a fantastic picture! They did announce at the start of bidding on #37 that JSA wouldn't issue a COA for the picture, because they had never seen that exact style of signature. Hunt's felt certain it was 100% legit, but JSA wouldn't cert it because of the unique style.

And they did say the picture originated from Ted Williams' belongings as they were sorting through things, so you should be happy! The image might be unique as well, I believe!

Crowd is maybe 150 people or so right now, plus some various media outlets in town. People seem to be coming and going a bit, since this is going to be an all-day affair.....

[Splinte1941]

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[scooter729]

Good luck in dealing with them on this - I would certainly have thought that information would be (and should be) shared with any bidders on the lot.

I had been interested in the picture as well but was a bit surprised to hear their announcement.

[Splinte1941]

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[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

I was bidding via phone and I wasn't privy to that information about the signature nor did the woman taking my bid tell me anything. Looks like a problem in the making. There was nothing about JSA refusing to cert the thing in the catalogue.

why is it a problem in the making? the lot never said jsa cert. do you need a jsa cert on everything? it is just one guys opinion.

You got exactly what you bid on, a ted williams signed photo with no cert, just as the description states. why let one guy run the autograph collecting world? You should have done your own research BEFORE you bid and you should have felt comfortable with the signed photo BEFORE you bid. There is no disclaimer on these auctions that everything is sold with the expectation that it will pass psa or jsa.

do you need a list of all the people who will or won't give it a cert on every single item in the whole catalogue? How many names do they need to list?

on this item, psa will cert it, but jsa wont, on this one, jsa will but psa wont, on this one, psa and jsa wont, but global will.

Why not get the opinions of the authenticators of your choice on any one particular item before you bid? Just saying.

[Splinte1941]

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[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

They're not getting paid until PSA has a look at it. I even asked the girl over the phone what they were saying and she said they were saying how rare it was. More BS from this business. Someone is supposed to call me back, but they'll probably end up relisting this live if I don't get a good explanation.

where in the description does it say jsa cert?

i dont get it. why does psa's approval all of the sudden mean its good again and that's the only way they are going to get paid? Where does it say you are only obligated to pay if just two people in the world give it the thumbs up? You bid on it as is and you should pay for it. I have sold stuff that jsa and psa did not like, but it was real so who cares unless you are only interested in the cert.

something tells me you just want the cert, you are cert shopping.

If an auction lists no cert, does that mean if psa and jsa fail it in the future, you are entitled to your money back? that's ridiculous. It's their opinion and if you didnt get their opinion beforehand, its not the auction houses problem. nobody should be subject to the whims of psa or jsa.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

Get a life. No one asked for your opinion. Your response is rude and not welcomed.

I'm on the phone waiting to bid asking the woman for the information and you would have thought theyd have provided the info.

they DID provide the info. they listed it on their auction with no cert. that's what you bid on. they are under no obligation to list who may or may not cert this item in the future. that's for you to figure out BEFOREHAND.

[Splinte1941]

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[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

No. I want a legitimate item you *******.

Am I supposed to take Dave Hunts word for it? Whos word am I supposed to take? If I wanted to resell it someday a cert would nice, wouldn't it genius? Now go back to doing whatever you were doing before I didn't ask for your 2 cents.

so you are cert shopping, good. a cert would be nice for resell? Hey, HUNT sold it to you without one. worked for them, didnt it?

you mentioned resell, which means you are only interested in the cert, not if it is real. if psa gives you a cert, you won't be mad at the auction house anymore or jsa either. that's the point. whether or not it is real doesnt really matter to you as long as jsa or psa issue a cert for it.


so if psa certs it and jsa won't, what does that tell you about the legitimacy of the item? NOTHING, because it is a split opinion. so if the two world's experts disagree, you only care about the one that certed it, because it is now real, but if psa wouldnt cert it and jsa would, then it would also be real, as long as one of them certs it, you will believe THAT person, because for the moment, he is giving you what you want. If it was the other way around, then that same person's opinion would be junk in your opinion, and the OTHER one would be gold. See how crazy it is?

[HRBAKER]

If they had the info about JSA's refusal bf they went to print they should have put it in the description. If it is important enough to announce to the live bidders and they didn't have the info bf the catalogs went out then a note should have been made to share the same info with all phone bidders IMO.

Their announcement of such info IMO acknowledges that they consider it relevant to most bidders.

EDIT TO ADD: JSAs refusal to cert certainly doesn't mean that the item is no good.

[scooter729]

FWIW it's worth - the auction catalog states "Auction LOA from JSA". My guess is that it used to be on the website description and was removed when they got the add'l info from JSA.

They should have updated the website listing with this info, and informed anyone who had bid on it of this info.

And geez travrosty, seriously - do you have to yell at everyone who ever buys an autograph? You called me a moron the other day for admitting I'd bought some bad autographs years ago; it's people like you with your negative attitudes that make people stay away from the autograph forum. Now please stay over there and do NOT ruin another legitimate thread please!

[carrigansghost]

Thank you for keeping us updated, Scott.

Rawn

[Splinte1941]

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[yanks12025]

But travrosty does make a point dealing with passing one and failing another.

[Splinte1941]

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[carrigansghost]

Now is it any wonder why I consigned all of my auto's to auction. Maybe it's a ploy to pick up auto'ed items for cheap by bashing everything on the market or everything out there is bad? Either way, I'm glad there is a seperate forum now.

Rawn

[Splinte1941]

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[murphusa]

$120,000 for a world series program scorecard

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by murphusa

$120,000 for a world series program scorecard

I'm sorry but that's stupid to pay that much for a piece of paper. Must be nice to drop 120k on paper.

[CW]

Thanks for the updates, Scott. I'll be interested to see how high the Babe Ruth signed ball goes. Congrats to all that won items.

[Runscott]

Nice thread title and potential - too bad Hunt is also auctioning autographs.

I've won one lot so far, and still high internet bidder on five more - very cool, interesting stuff.

[travrosty]

he has no idea if the autograph is good or not, and asked if he should take hunts word for it?

the listing did not list a cert at all, so of course you have to take hunt's word for it. just like lelands who does not use jsa or psa at all.

if he didnt want to take hunts word for it, then dont bid on a listing with no certs listed. just because psa or jsa give a no opinion (and that's what it is concerning jsa, a no opinion, not a fail), that shouldnt then make it the auction houses problem.

[HRBAKER]

IMO if the auction house chose to make the info re the attempted certification available to the live bidders then they owed the same consideration to the phone bidders.

[Splinte1941]

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[scooter729]

One important thing not to be overlooked here...

The auction catalog stated "Auction LOA from JSA." This is no longer on the website, which says that it likely had been there before, but when JSA came back unable to render a full opinion, they removed the auction LOA verbiage from the website listing.

Had they gone with full disclosure, they would have stated why they removed the "Auction LOA" description which had been there at one time.

[murphusa]

Originally Posted by cw

thanks for the updates, scott. I'll be interested to see how high the babe ruth signed ball goes. Congrats to all that won items.

$170,000.00

[Splinte1941]

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[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

he has no idea if the autograph is good or not, and asked if he should take hunts word for it?

the listing did not list a cert at all, so of course you have to take hunt's word for it. just like lelands who does not use jsa or psa at all.

if he didnt want to take hunts word for it, then dont bid on a listing with no certs listed. just because psa or jsa give a no opinion (and that's what it is concerning jsa, a no opinion, not a fail), that shouldnt then make it the auction houses problem.

Leland's has two people there who really know what they are doing regarding autographs, Josh and Mike Hefner.
Does Hunt? (Delehanty?)

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Leland's has two people there who really know what they are doing regarding autographs, Josh and Mike Hefner.
Does Hunt? (Delehanty?)

Richard, what is your opinion on my situation. Am I wrong here? I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.

[CW]

Originally Posted by murphusa

$170,000.00

Ah, cool -- thanks! Quite an amazing item.

Some other cool pieces...

.400 club hitters ball sold for $55K.



Ted's Hall of Fame induction ring.



And more than double the auction estimate for Ted's 1957 "Babe Ruth Sultan of Swat Award"

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

Richard, what is your opinion on my situation. Am I wrong here? I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.

As someone who does not put his faith in TPA's I am not the right person to ask here but it does seem you are not being unreasonable.

[Splinte1941]

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[travrosty]

just because lelands has auto experts and hunts doesnt in your opinion, so what? you knew that going in.

You entered into a contract to buy a signed photo without a cert, then when you find out you cant get one from a company that you want one from, you make it hunts problem?

they didnt list a cert, so there is no guarantee for a cert. that's the way it works. doesnt mean it is a fake autograph. jsa gave a no opinion, not a fail. why are you acting like its fake? you bid so you should pay.

its what cheeses me off, and reminds me of a high priced boxing autograph that the buyer liked a lot, and said it looked good, paid for the item, and then when jsa and psa either gave a no opinion or a fail, wanted his money back from the seller, and when the seller stuck to his guns, the seller got sued, but thankfully won the case. just because the buyer couldnt get his favorite guys to give it a cert, does not make it the sellers problem.

the buyer could have gotten all the opinions he wanted AHEAD OF TIME, and asked anybody he wanted ahead of time. he didn't. that's his problem. both this boxing autograph i am referring to and this williams has not been proven a fake, but since the buyer is more interested in the cert than the autograph, the problems start and thats why the hobby has been going downhill since the tpa's started the "unless we give it a cert, it is not good" type nonsense, and the collectors fell for it.

[Splinte1941]

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[Splinte1941]

And just as an aside, its incredible some of the prices being realized for stuff that has been going unsold on eBay for years. Most of the massed produced Green Diamond stuff is going for ridiculous and unreasonable prices.

$1k for a single signed Bobby Brown baseball? They can't give these away anywhere else.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

And just as an aside, its incredible some of the prices being realized for stuff that has been going unsold on eBay for years. Most of the massed produced Green Diamond stuff is going for ridiculous and unreasonable prices.

My guess would be that there are a lot of non-collectors in the crowd, with more money than sense.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

My guess would be that there are a lot of non-collectors in the crowd, with more money than sense.

You're not kidding.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

My guess would be that there are a lot of non-collectors in the crowd, with more money than sense.

They hyped this auction a lot in the local Boston media this week, so I think a lot of non-collectors showed up and it became a "gotta have something from the Williams auction" for the non-collectors. That's what drove up the prices on the low-end items, to $1K for a ball and $500 for an 11x14 photo.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by scooter729

They hyped this auction a lot in the local Boston media this week, so I think a lot of non-collectors showed up and it became a "gotta have something from the Williams auction" for the non-collectors. That's what drove up the prices on the low-end items, to $1K for a ball and $500 for an 11x14 photo.

Wait until those non-collectors try to sell that stuff, somewhere down the road.

[barrysloate]

Brian Williams did a story about the auction on NBC's evening news. A whole lot of people watch that. So a lot of the money may be coming from outside the hobby.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by scooter729

They hyped this auction a lot in the local Boston media this week, so I think a lot of non-collectors showed up and it became a "gotta have something from the Williams auction" for the non-collectors. That's what drove up the prices on the low-end items, to $1K for a ball and $500 for an 11x14 photo.

I live outside of Boston and this was really high profile. It's a shame a lot of collectors were edged out due to the hype.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

I live outside of Boston and this was really high profile. It's a shame a lot of collectors were edged out due to the hype.

I would guess collectors were blown out, not edged out.

[Splinte1941]

$1K for a modern day single signed ball is a joke and borderline criminal.

The ton of old Green Diamond garbage unloaded is in the same boat. I'm biased though as I'm already in a battle with Hunt over shenanigans so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

[Runscott]

edited: removed non-autograph content, as inappropriate for this forum. My bad. (sorry about the duplicate post)

[Splinte1941]

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[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I would guess collectors were blown out, not edged out.

Never underestimate the "crazy-stupid" factor of the live auction. I've always been amazed at the crazy prices that garden variety items sell for in an auction....