P-F in your collection?

Archive · #1 09-10-2005, 02:28 PM

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

There have been a few threads recently about buying trimmed or altered cards. Just how bad of a card would you have in your collection? Would you take the P-F card in your collection because it's what you collect or because it's a filler or because it's rare? What reason?

Regardless of issue, where would you draw the line?

For example, I like N172 cards. There is a very low condition Jake Beckley for sale on ebay. I would have paaid up to about $150 for this card. As you can see by the san below, it's pretty beat. How much would another N172 collector value this card at?

Archive · #2 09-10-2005, 02:36 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar

My beautiful SGC 10 N172 Boston Kelly portrait--back is written all over (nothing interesting), and YES, I'd wanted one for a long time.

Archive · #3 09-10-2005, 02:46 PM

Posted By: john/z28jd

Because i collect Pittsburgh players from the OJ set i wouldve paid at least $200 for that Beckley.For cards i really want id pay alot for OJs because specific cards dont always come up often but just a random player(common) i wouldnt pay more than $50 in that condition.

I think the condition youll accept depends on how tough the set is.When i collected t206s i wouldnt even have thought about one in that shape,not even as a filler

Archive · #4 09-10-2005, 02:51 PM

Posted By: Daniel Bretta

What kind of value would you place on this skinned Brouthers card? And any idea what it would cost me to get it rebacked by someone who knows what they are doing?

Archive · #5 09-10-2005, 02:54 PM

Posted By: zach

the rarer the card to me the more I will pay and the more I won't care about the condtion.

my t227 Rube is a good example...I really like the card so when one came up that was cheap I bought it insted of waiting around for a much more expensive one. 10 dollars vs. paying 350 or so for one.

Archive · #6 09-10-2005, 02:59 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar

Spot is actually under the top layer of the card, and is brown, and shaped like--an ink splash. Guess it happened between the two photographic processes...anyhway, I'd been wanting one of THEM for a long time, too.

Archive · #7 09-10-2005, 03:11 PM

Posted By: joe brennan

I aquired this from a fellow board member and I think its a great looking card and very appealing to me. Doesnt matter a bit to me that it might be trimmed? LOL. I treasure it as much as any card in my collection.

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

Archive · #8 09-10-2005, 03:20 PM

Posted By: joe brennan

I know we,ve touched on this in a few posts. I really feel that if the cards come back ungraded and trimmed but they are nice looking cards and they are going to stay in my collection, I dont care if they were trimmed. I'm not going to try and decieve any one with them and alot of trimmed cards are not noticeable with the naked eye. SO, if I buy some trimmed cards that I'm happy with I feel I am accomplishing 2 things. Adding some beauties to my collection and maybe saving some other buyer from buying a trimmed card that is not disclosed later on. ANyone have any thoughts on this?

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

Archive · #9 09-10-2005, 04:34 PM

Posted By: jay behrens

The only condition requirements for my collection are no heavy crease thru the face and a legible name. Chunks of the card can be missing, especially when it comes to rare, expensive cards. Besides, beat up cards have character that a high grade example lacks.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

Archive · #10 09-10-2005, 05:07 PM

Posted By: joe brennan

Nice sheckard Jay. What issue is it? Sorry for the ignorance, but its the only way I can learn. Thanks Joe

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

Archive · #11 09-10-2005, 05:21 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar

Archive · #12 09-10-2005, 05:58 PM

Posted By: JimCrandell

I would never buy a trimmed or altered card.

The only circumstances I would buy less than a PSA 7 or a SGC 84 is if there was a genuine scarcity of the card.

Jim

Archive · #13 09-10-2005, 06:03 PM

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Is there a grading service that grades based on "character" not condition? Of course it couldn't slab the card because that would be uncool, but maybe it could make a notation on the back of a cardsaver or something.

Archive · #14 09-10-2005, 06:05 PM

Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

JIM, If you are not willing to buy anything less than a 7... that means there are many pre-war sets that you will never own a card of.
-Rhett

Archive · #15 09-10-2005, 06:09 PM

Posted By: JimCrandell

Rhett,

Maybe so--but I have learned you can't collect them all. For the obscure sets I would probably be satisfied
with 1 psa 8 sample.

Jim

Archive · #16 09-10-2005, 06:23 PM

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Dav, you appear to be suffering from a medical condition known as Mike Baker's Disease -- defined as an undue fascination with high grade slabbed cards. It is a psychiatric disorder, listed in DSM-IV under the obsessive compulsive disorders (although there are those who claim it belongs under narcissistic disorders). There is a cure, however. Sell all your cards and replace them with low grade cards -- creases are mandatory (sorry, I know it sounds painful). For a while you will feel ill, but eventually you will learn to love them. You not only will be cured, you will have much more money to spread around.

Archive · #17 09-10-2005, 06:34 PM

Posted By: joe brennan

Some of us dont have the option of buying just PSA 8 cards for our collection. Even if the issue isnt rare. Thats a statement that will definately change my opinion of your views towards my collection. I think we had another person on this board at one time that turned his nose up at any thing less than auction quality material. Glad you dont have any interest in the cards that I collect, It will be one less person bidding against me. But I sure would like to get you in a poker game and see if your superiority holds up against mine there.

Statements made from a lowly PSA 4 collector.

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

Archive · #18 09-10-2005, 06:46 PM

Posted By: Paul Lehr

I don't have any P-F cards in my collection but I would buy them if they had great eye appeal like Julie's Boston Kelly. I personally would never buy a card that looked like that Jake Beckley....it's way too beat up for me.

Archive · #19 09-10-2005, 06:46 PM

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

The original question asked what is the lowest condition card people would buy. Jim just answered the question, he didn't intimate that he was "superior" or criticize anyone else's collection or look down on people who only have the resources to buy lesser grade cards. Methinks his response was taken the wrong way.

Archive · #20 09-10-2005, 07:27 PM

Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Hey Joe,

Don't know if Jim is any good at Poker or if he even plays at all but I heard he was pretty darn good at Go Fish and Crazy 8's. How about you?

I hope you did not mind, Jim, my sharing this with the world.

Greg

Archive · #21 09-10-2005, 07:38 PM

Posted By: JimCrandell

Leon inadvertantly took this down as I had mistakenly posted it twice but what I think I said is that there is nothing wrong with collecting lower grade cards although I like high grade cards.

I do play poker but as Greg says Go Fish is my game.

Jim

Archive · #22 09-10-2005, 07:49 PM

Posted By: jay behrens

The card is a Breisch-Williams e107

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

Archive · #23 09-10-2005, 07:51 PM

Posted By: Craig Lipman

One of the worst condition raw cards I ever bought. Now it's one of my favorite cards.

Archive · #24 09-10-2005, 09:20 PM

Posted By: William Brumbach

I had a Goudey 4-in-1 and a T202 with a side panel split off I sold recently that were pretty nasty and still have a '54 Topps Spahn that is pretty tore up but this is the probably the lowest graded card in my actual collection that I could post here.

Archive · #25 09-10-2005, 09:50 PM

Posted By: joe brennan

I think that this post will be my exit from the forum also.

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

Archive · #26 09-10-2005, 11:07 PM

Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Joe,

You cannot leave until you post a Vaya con dios thread.

Greg

Archive · #27 09-10-2005, 11:12 PM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Greg, you've made me laugh now twice about that departure....

Archive · #28 09-10-2005, 11:16 PM

Posted By: bcornell

Here's one that, thankfully, is beyond the realm of grading, since E125's are too big and too oddly shaped for holders (note: this is not a challenge to GAI. Please don't.). Wiltse was still not verified when Lipset's encyclopedia came out 20 years ago, so I assume it's one of just a few.

Zach - your t227 Marquard has an impeccable provenance, as I used to own it. It came in a hodgepodge lot from Mastro a few years ago, then on to Mike Peich.

Archive · #29 09-10-2005, 11:21 PM

Posted By: zach

thats very cool...nice to know that it was once in the Bill C. collection lol.

Archive · #30 09-10-2005, 11:58 PM

Posted By: Mike P.

I really hate to hijack this thread with a seemingly dumb and off topic question but I have been wondering this for quite some time. Bill, is that Mr. McFeely (of Mr. Rogers fame) on your avatar image?

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.

Archive · #31 09-11-2005, 12:04 AM

Posted By: bcornell

Nope, it's Bill Klem, HOF umpire. You're ejected, Mike!

Bill

Archive · #32 09-11-2005, 12:11 AM

Posted By: Mike P.

I hold my head in shame! I should have known that after reading the vintage card umpire thread! In my defense, with that small avatar there is a resemblance. Thanks for the answer, now I can sleep better tonight!

Archive · #33 09-11-2005, 12:17 AM

Posted By: tbob

You'll never own an E98 set, an E94 set, a D311 set or a T212-1, 2 or 3 set. In fact you won't ever be able to own most of the cards in any of the sets because they just don't exist in the slab grade you want. If you could pry Scott Mosley's cards from his hands (no chance) you would have a good go at the E98 and if you robbed Mark Macrae at gunpoint you might have a decent start on the Obaks and D311, but E94s? Fuggetaboudit.

Archive · #34 09-11-2005, 12:28 AM

Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Catfish!

Archive · #35 09-11-2005, 06:19 AM

Posted By: JimCrandell

tbob,

I'm sure you are right. As of now, I collect about 11 pre-war sets and samples of others that I can get in psa 8 or sgc 88(or gai 8). So I will never collect these as you say.

Jim

Archive · #36 09-11-2005, 06:42 AM

Posted By: T206Collector

I picked up these two lovelies in a lot of 105 T206 cards that I won on eBay a few years back. The seller had a -1 feedback score, and had never sold any baseball cards in his history. Mostly he had been dealing in adult movies. But, the seller was in New York City (where I lived at the time) and so I bid highest and then arranged for an in person meeting to exchange cash for cards. Well, the seller arrived at Grand Central Station about an hour late. He was covered in filth, I recall his nails being the color of soot. He was emaciated. He had the look of a heroin addict selling his grandfather's collection to make up some money for smack.

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your appetite for abused cards) he had the baseball cards in his left hip pocket, no sleeves, no plastic covering, nothing. Just 105 T206 cards in his pocket. Many of them were as beat up as the Burchell and the Dunn posted here, some of them were in fair-good condition. About 15 Hall of Famers and a dozen, or so, rare backs, including American Beauty and Cycle. He (or one of his associates) had spent a lot of time soaking some of them in a substance of some sort and trying to color in the creases with magic marker. To this day, the cards warp any penny sleeve that gets the privilege of housing them for more than a few days. I have no idea what the cards were soaked in, but they still -- after many many years -- feel damp to the touch. I have to wash my hands after touching them.

I have sold off most of these cards as I have upgraded along the way. Even with the condition problems I was able to make back my money easily. I still have a couple left over. These two pretties were the worst of the lot and I just recently upgraded the Burchell. So this one will be coming to an eBay auction near you as soon as I get the replacement in the mail this week.

If it's authentic, I'll accept it as a filler.

Archive · #37 09-11-2005, 11:40 AM

Posted By: J Levine

Here...

Archive · #38 09-11-2005, 12:47 PM

Posted By: Ed McCollum

Trimmed to alter condition...wouldn't buy it.

Beat to hell through the course of time...I got no problem with that.

Ed

Archive · #39 09-11-2005, 05:45 PM

Posted By: Ben

Quite a beater as you can see...Personally, I find it sorta charming. I've always enjoyed collecting raw/low grade cards like this one. Nice thread guys.

Archive · #40 09-11-2005, 06:16 PM

Posted By: David Vargha

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

Archive · #41 09-11-2005, 07:24 PM

Posted By: FYS

"I would never buy a trimmed or altered card.

The only circumstances I would buy less than a PSA 7 or a SGC 84 is if there was a genuine scarcity of the card.

Jim"

This statement reminds me of one Adam J. Moraine :>)

Archive · #42 09-11-2005, 07:34 PM

Posted By: Bob

"This statement reminds me of one Adam J. Moraine :>)"

I'm definately in the "old beatup is OK" camp.
I find it silly that people pay ridiculous amounts of money for high end graded cards.
However, everyone has the right to spend thier money how they see fit.
I don't see that Jim has made any statements that warrant such a cheap shot.

It's comments like this that make the board look bad.

Bob

Archive · #43 09-11-2005, 07:34 PM

Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

One of the many differences between Adam M and Jim C is that Jim HAS the means to buy what he wants.

Archive · #44 09-11-2005, 07:38 PM

Posted By: Jim Crandell

FYS,

That was pretty stupid but I will give you a pass.

Jim

Archive · #45 09-11-2005, 07:50 PM

Posted By: joe maples

I know this is a 1953 Glendale but Houtteman is scarce, traded for this years ago, graded a 10 by SGC, has staple hole in card, besides the normal wear of the Hotdog cards.

Archive · #46 09-11-2005, 07:50 PM

Posted By: FYS

"FYS,

That was pretty stupid but I will give you a pass.

Jim"

Wow, I think people took this one a bit too seriously or I am more naive that I think. In any case, I remember Adam talking one time about how he refused to buy low grade cards. It made me laugh at the time because it was pretty apparent that he did not have the means or even knowledge of vintage cards. Jim statement reminded me of Adam's statement and I thought it was funny, mostly because the people and financial situation could not be any more different, but they did make one similar statement. Thought I would add some humour to the board. Bad attempt, particularly when I am new and do not know Jim personally.

Archive · #47 09-11-2005, 08:48 PM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

...I can smell a vaya con dios coming.....

Archive · #48 09-11-2005, 11:16 PM

Posted By: misunderestimated

But sometimes the option isn't there. ... Nothing wrong with what Jim wrote (unless you are looking to be offended). "To each his own." Frankly, we should be happy he probably won't be bidding against us for a stained '14 CJ Matty, a trashed Pete Browning OJ that looks its age, or a Cuban Oscar Charleston Aguilatas with bug holes ....

Two future HOFers ??

Archive · #49 09-12-2005, 01:16 AM

Posted By: jay behrens

Didn't Biz Mackey go on to have a rap career and a hit call "Just a Friend"?

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

Archive · #50 09-12-2005, 10:12 AM

Posted By: Glen V

I collect the P-F cards when I can't find/afford a nicer one, which is usually the case for tough types.

This one's a shame, but I do like the back:

Don't see too many Cresent Ice Creams in any condition:

Anyone seen the missing corner to this?

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