I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

[Tcards-Please]

Greg,

How do we know that he was really "caught stealing" and not just thrown out on a regularly played ball?

r/
Frank

[packs]

I looked at the Cleveland T200 and Jackson has his stirrups all the way down on both legs. If Jackson was injured and wearing the half stirrup for a limited time, it would be very lucky to have caught him in action with his injury. The Joss game was towards the end of July, when were the photos for the T5 set taken? Were they taken before the 1911 season, after, during? He's wearing his stirrups down in that photo.

I think the big question is, are there any players featured on the centerfolds of the T202 set that don't also appear in the set as a tab? I know some images are identified and some aren't, but are there any images that aren't identified on the card, but can be identified unconditionally, and the player doesn't appear in the set itself? For example, in the Cobb stealing photo he is sliding into Jimmy Austin, who also is featured in the set as a tab.

[botn]

Originally Posted by T's please

Greg,

How do we know that he was really "caught stealing" and not just thrown out on a regularly played ball?

r/
Frank

Frank,

You are correct. The back of the card only states "The runner was out at third and he might well be; for the bag was being held down by the able Harry D. Lord of the Chicago White Sox." Finding a play by play which covers the game in such detail that it recorded ordinary put outs is going to be a long shot. I thought if a play by play could be found which listed the caught stealing stat it might be more conclusive one way or another.

Greg

[Exhibitman]

Find games Lord and JJ both played in during 1910-1911

[benjulmag]

Second best post on this thread (after Brett) is bmarlowe1. Without more, we'll never know.

That said, I strongly suspect the market value of this card has increased materially and that many/most future descriptions will make reference to Joe Jackson being depicted in the middle panel. In this hobby, fact often plays a very small role.

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Second best post on this thread (after Brett) is bmarlowe1. Without more, we'll never know.

That said, I strongly suspect the market value of this card has increased materially and that many/most future descriptions will make reference to Joe Jackson being depicted in the middle panel. In this hobby, fact often plays a very small role.

Sad but true

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Second best post on this thread (after Brett) is bmarlowe1. Without more, we'll never know.

I agree whole heartedly with this statement but love threads like this. So much can be learned from the collective ideas of the group. Even when a thought or idea is proven wrong it's a learning experience.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Second best post on this thread (after Brett) is bmarlowe1. Without more, we'll never know.

That said, I strongly suspect the market value of this card has increased materially and that many/most future descriptions will make reference to Joe Jackson being depicted in the middle panel. In this hobby, fact often plays a very small role.

Was thinking the same thing. Maybe we can make an another possible addition to the "hobby myth" thread as well.

[Easy506]

I think "Baker Gets His Man" looks more like Joe than the Lord card. The sliding players nose on the Lord card looks wider than Joe's long nose.

[slidekellyslide]

This has been a fascinating thread. The question may never be answered, but the fact that it has never even been brought up on this board in the past is simply amazing to me. It was also fascinating to see this thread spark a bit of a a buying frenzy.

[Vol]

Great thread.
I say it is Joe.

Now, off to ebay!

[Bob Lemke]

Let me also congratulate Brett on a great first contribution to this forum.

I have a full set of TSN microfilm for those years, which offered great box scores, but the film is in PA and I am WI.

For what it's worth, as someone mentioned, the National Game action card that is widely believed to picture Ty Cobb sliding sells (or at least carried a "book" value of 6X the other action cards in the set.

If corroborative evidence is found that it is, indeed, Joe Jax in an uncredited cameo on the T202, I could see similar increase in demand/price.

[T206DK]

again, you will never prove that it is Jackson unless you find the photographer that took the picture or the original along with some sort of documentation saying it is Jackson. While intriguing, this thread will only serve to artificially jack the price up on yet another card. the player looks more like Lord than Jackson. This is wishfull thinking at best, and plays to the mindset of those that look for pots of gold at the ends of rainbows. Is that a UFO hovering in the sky outside the stadium in that picture above "Jacksons" head and to the left. Wow, this card has something for everyone. I think I see Jack the Ripper peering over the fence to look at Jackson's slide also. Unbelieveable ! what was he doing in America at this time

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by T206DK

the player looks more like Lord than Jackson.

Dave,

Sorry, no way the person sliding is either Harry Lord (who is pictured on the panel) or Bris Lord as he was with Philadelphia in 1911.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Originally Posted by T206DK

again, you will never prove that it is Jackson unless you find the photographer that took the picture or the original along with some sort of documentation saying it is Jackson. While intriguing, this thread will only serve to artificially jack the price up on yet another card. the player looks more like Lord than Jackson. This is wishfull thinking at best, and plays to the mindset of those that look for pots of gold at the ends of rainbows. Is that a UFO hovering in the sky outside the stadium in that picture above "Jacksons" head and to the left. Wow, this card has something for everyone. I think I see Jack the Ripper peering over the fence to look at Jackson's slide also. Unbelieveable ! what was he doing in America at this time

You mad ?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by T206DK

again, you will never prove that it is Jackson unless you find the photographer that took the picture or the original along with some sort of documentation saying it is Jackson. While intriguing, this thread will only serve to artificially jack the price up on yet another card. the player looks more like Lord than Jackson. This is wishfull thinking at best, and plays to the mindset of those that look for pots of gold at the ends of rainbows. Is that a UFO hovering in the sky outside the stadium in that picture above "Jacksons" head and to the left. Wow, this card has something for everyone. I think I see Jack the Ripper peering over the fence to look at Jackson's slide also. Unbelieveable ! what was he doing in America at this time

you forgot about his wife, Morgan Fairchild, who is also there...yeah, that's the ticket!

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

you forgot about his wife, Morgan Fairchild, who is also there...yeah, that's the ticket!

I heard there was a bigfoot sighting at the field right before this very picture was taken. the cameraman was too slow and clumsy to reload fresh film and therefore only captured Jackson sliding, and not the Sasquatch

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by T206DK

again, you will never prove that it is Jackson unless you find the photographer that took the picture or the original along with some sort of documentation saying it is Jackson. While intriguing, this thread will only serve to artificially jack the price up on yet another card. the player looks more like Lord than Jackson. This is wishfull thinking at best, and plays to the mindset of those that look for pots of gold at the ends of rainbows. Is that a UFO hovering in the sky outside the stadium in that picture above "Jacksons" head and to the left. Wow, this card has something for everyone. I think I see Jack the Ripper peering over the fence to look at Jackson's slide also. Unbelieveable ! what was he doing in America at this time

Can you be any more of a Debbie Downer. This is one of the more interesting threads I have read on here in awhile. No need to pee in everyone's Cheerios.

[botn]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Can you be any more of a Debbie Downer. This is one of the more interesting threads I have read on here in awhile. No need to pee in everyone's Cheerios.

Agreed. Each post T206DK has made on this thread is filled with hostility. Why not find another sandbox to play in? Nobody here needs the chip on your shoulder.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Can you be any more of a Debbie Downer. This is one of the more interesting threads I have read on here in awhile. No need to pee in everyone's Cheerios.

Hmmm, I guess card collectors don't have much of a sense of humor then sportscardtheory. Sorry for mixing in a little here to make a point and peeing on everyone's fire who wants this to be Joe Jackson soooooo very badly. My brother just called me after reading this post and he says there could be more cards in the T202 set that could have resemblences of Jackson in them. He is hoping it turns out to be true so he can sell all 3 of his for inflated prices. How many others are out there waiting to do the same thing ? How many on this board went out and bought a T202 the day this thread was started ? Many of you don't realize how reactionary and opportunistic this hobby of ours has become sometimes. I don't mind pointing it out when I see it. If you are going to slam me and name call for it ....then so be it ! I will be the first to admit, I did not even look for T202's that were for sale after reading this thread. My brother , on the other hand is already on the Collectors universe boards trying to make deals with his buddies to buy more

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by T206DK

again, you will never prove that it is Jackson unless you find the photographer that took the picture or the original along with some sort of documentation saying it is Jackson. While intriguing, this thread will only serve to artificially jack the price up on yet another card. the player looks more like Lord than Jackson. This is wishfull thinking at best, and plays to the mindset of those that look for pots of gold at the ends of rainbows. Is that a UFO hovering in the sky outside the stadium in that picture above "Jacksons" head and to the left. Wow, this card has something for everyone. I think I see Jack the Ripper peering over the fence to look at Jackson's slide also. Unbelieveable ! what was he doing in America at this time

Excellent points. Maybe someone will start another "I can't believe this card didn't grade higher" thread instead of an interesting one like this that's about, you know, an actual prewar card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't believe this card didn't grade higher.

[tbob]

Did anyone else notice that in the Addy Joss panorama picture Jack Graney is pictured twice?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by tbob

Did anyone else notice that in the Addy Joss panorama picture Jack Graney is pictured twice?

From that to the collection of talent, to Cobb in a Cleveland uni, to the history surrounding it, it's a special photo. I created a wall display surrounding it.