NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:54 PM
teza11 teza11 is offline
Jeff
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 54
Default N284 Buchner Gold Coin Checklist Add?

Hi. I've reviewed several of the published N284 Buchner Gold Coin checklists and can't find an entry for "Toole, Pitcher, Brooklyn". Is this card a checklist add or something different? Usual Gold Coin printed backside.

Jeff
Attached Images
File Type: jpg n284 Toole Pitcher Brooklyn o.jpg (42.6 KB, 460 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:20 PM
Jay Wolt's Avatar
Jay Wolt Jay Wolt is offline
qualitycards
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Gettysburg PA area
Posts: 2,290
Default

I worked on the set a few years ago & never seen this one
Looks in great shape too!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:32 PM
Cozumeleno's Avatar
Cozumeleno Cozumeleno is offline
An$on
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 853
Default

Wow, that's incredible. Going to link here and add it to the checklist on my site. Great stuff.
__________________
Primary Interests:
T201 Mecca Double Folders (17/50)
T205 Gold Border (208/208)
T206 White Border (520/520)
T207 Brown Background (195/200)
T218 Champions (153/153)
E90-1 (83/121)
E91-A/B/C (55/99)
N28/N29 Allen & Ginter (31/100)
W512/W513 (96/100)
1933-41 Goudey Run (154/478)
1939-41 Play Ball Run (221/473)
1982-83 Wrestling All-Stars PSA Set (63/108)

OBC Member

Creator of:
www.prewarcards.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-15-2019, 11:43 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,468
Default

I don't think I can remember another new player added to this series since I have been in the hobby. Nice find.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-15-2019, 07:48 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,089
Default

I'm a little leery, I've only owned a few, but it just doesn't look right.
__________________
Great experience buying from edjs and mybuddyinc. Check out my ebay store, weird, eclectic, accurate, and reasonable! http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarian-Sports-Cards Also check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-15-2019, 09:39 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

I do not like the looks of this card. Jmho But I have handled a few hundred gold coins over the years..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:24 AM
oldjudge's Avatar
oldjudge oldjudge is offline
j'a'y mi.ll.e.r
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Bronx
Posts: 4,064
Default

Looks good to me. Congratulations Jeff, nice find.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-16-2019, 08:05 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,426
Default

It looks washed out like a lot of the 48 Leaf reprints look. I'm not sure that's an authentic card, but it could mean there is one out there.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2019, 08:38 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,468
Default

It does look washed out or fake but that wouldn't make sense.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2019, 09:04 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,426
Default

Oh wait, the checklist I found has a notation on this card and this thread! Haha, never mind. Agree it would be weird to reprint an unknown card. Maybe it's just the photo.

Last edited by packs; 07-16-2019 at 09:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-16-2019, 10:12 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,525
Default

I think it is legit. Nice find, Jeff.

I think there are 5 different cards of Steve Toole in the Old Judge set featuring him with Brooklyn, KC, and Rochester.
Therefore since the N284 cards were also printed circa 1887, it's not unusual that Steve Toole was printed in this set.

For many years, the existence of an N284 Bill McClellan card was a mystery. In recent years, this card was confirmed.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-16-2019, 10:44 AM
insidethewrapper's Avatar
insidethewrapper insidethewrapper is offline
Mike
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 818
Default

Brooklyn already has a card for "Pitcher" in the set "Porter". It is possible to have more than one card per position in this set . Toole would make that 2 pitchers from Brooklyn. I believe Indy has 2 pitchers , Boyle and Healy.
__________________
Wanted : Detroit Baseball Cards and Memorabilia ( from 19th Century Detroit Wolverines to Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb to Al Kaline).

Last edited by insidethewrapper; 07-16-2019 at 10:53 AM. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-16-2019, 11:42 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,426
Default

Can we see a scan of the back? Maybe a better scan of the front?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:31 PM
teza11 teza11 is offline
Jeff
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 54
Default

I was wrong. Backside is not printed. Advertising cut-out?

Jeff
Attached Images
File Type: jpg toole r.jpg (49.1 KB, 235 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:48 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,426
Default

I would be wary of a blank backed Buchner. Guess that still wouldn't explain why it exists, but perhaps it was a card that appeared on a poster but wasn't actually issued for one reason or another.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:54 PM
Hot Springs Bathers Hot Springs Bathers is offline
Mike Dugan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 957
Default

Lots of blank backed Gold Coins out there
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:55 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,089
Default

Feeling pretty vindicated right about now. Of course the question remains what is it?
__________________
Great experience buying from edjs and mybuddyinc. Check out my ebay store, weird, eclectic, accurate, and reasonable! http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarian-Sports-Cards Also check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:56 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers View Post
Lots of blank backed Gold Coins out there
Scraps or skinned, not legit. At least as far as I am aware.
__________________
Great experience buying from edjs and mybuddyinc. Check out my ebay store, weird, eclectic, accurate, and reasonable! http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarian-Sports-Cards Also check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-17-2019, 01:56 PM
Cozumeleno's Avatar
Cozumeleno Cozumeleno is offline
An$on
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 853
Default

Bummer - given the various N284 advertising posters that were printed, that wouldn't be surprising. Many of the poster cards have the traditional backs with ads but there have been references to blank-backed ones, too. Guessing it's one of those for a card that was not issued.
__________________
Primary Interests:
T201 Mecca Double Folders (17/50)
T205 Gold Border (208/208)
T206 White Border (520/520)
T207 Brown Background (195/200)
T218 Champions (153/153)
E90-1 (83/121)
E91-A/B/C (55/99)
N28/N29 Allen & Ginter (31/100)
W512/W513 (96/100)
1933-41 Goudey Run (154/478)
1939-41 Play Ball Run (221/473)
1982-83 Wrestling All-Stars PSA Set (63/108)

OBC Member

Creator of:
www.prewarcards.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:01 PM
Cozumeleno's Avatar
Cozumeleno Cozumeleno is offline
An$on
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 853
Default

Just ran a search for them on the site and found this old thread. Seems there are a good number of these out there, though I've not seen any in person.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=88940
__________________
Primary Interests:
T201 Mecca Double Folders (17/50)
T205 Gold Border (208/208)
T206 White Border (520/520)
T207 Brown Background (195/200)
T218 Champions (153/153)
E90-1 (83/121)
E91-A/B/C (55/99)
N28/N29 Allen & Ginter (31/100)
W512/W513 (96/100)
1933-41 Goudey Run (154/478)
1939-41 Play Ball Run (221/473)
1982-83 Wrestling All-Stars PSA Set (63/108)

OBC Member

Creator of:
www.prewarcards.com

Last edited by Cozumeleno; 07-17-2019 at 02:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:02 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

Sure that could be it.... send it in to a TPG and see what they say...maybe they could restore the back to it's original Reprint/ fantasy lettering.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:08 PM
teza11 teza11 is offline
Jeff
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 54
Default

A few more details. Toole card is about 1/8" taller than a printed back card. Toole card is printed on card stock, however it is about 50% of the card stock weight (thickness). Definitely a period piece. So what is it? Are there other examples of players used for advertising that did not get printed as a checklist card? Any idea of value as it stands?

Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:09 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,426
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers View Post
Lots of blank backed Gold Coins out there
I don't know of any blank backed Buchners that were actually issued as cards. The only ones I've ever seen are cut from posters. Given that this card is unknown, I would have a hard time believing it was issued on anything other than a poster, and given the way the front looks, I'm still not sure about that either.

Last edited by packs; 07-17-2019 at 02:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:13 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

Definitely a period piece???? Lol
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-17-2019, 08:15 PM
buchner buchner is offline
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 63
Default Toole

Its probably a period piece, but McClellan and Toole are not part of the set. They are different, for one thing, the Brooklyn players are wearing pin stripe uniforms.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-17-2019, 08:20 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,468
Default

With a blank back my guess is now an ad cut. Not uncommon in the hobby.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-17-2019, 08:48 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

Unfortunately cards manufactured to defraud collectors are also not uncommon. This card is part of that unfortunate group.
Pose and coloration NG
Back NG
No pinstripes NG
Size wrong NG
Card stock wrong NG
While I agree that it is possible to "find" a card that has not been cataloged it is also much easier for the person who creates this type of fantasy / fake card say if he gets cought that it is not a counterfeit it is an original piece of art.
The person who created this card knows full well that a handful of cards cut from a poster do exist. And he exploits the doubt that it creates. I owned for over 30 years a 3 card strip of Gold coins that was cut from advertising poster. This is not one of those. Five glaring problems with this card. And yet hope springs eternal.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-18-2019, 08:43 PM
teza11 teza11 is offline
Jeff
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 54
Default

Thanks for the additional comments. Its clear that this is not a checklist series add, however I dont consider it to be fake. If it was produced for/by the Gold Coin company for advertising purposes, then its a genuine cut-out from a period banner, poster, counter card, etc. Even if it did not make if off the production floor (i.e. a proof), Id still consider it to be genuine. Maybe that helps to explain the inaccuracies like color, striping, or whatever.

I still have two questions that Id appreciate your help with
(1) Can someone with a N284 advertising cut-out and a N284 series card verify that the cut-out card is slightly taller than the series card?
(2) Does anyone have an advertising cut-out card for a player not on the N284 series checklist?

Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-18-2019, 09:00 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 994
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Feeling pretty vindicated right about now.
act like youve been there before.
__________________
R0nnie L3hman
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-18-2019, 09:19 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

Act like he's been there before Lol... what about the big guns that stepped up and said this card was good? When do they do the right thing? Or is ok for the OP to go to the national and sell this card and say" so and so and so and so both said it was good so I am completely justified in passing on this modern fake off as a possibility cut from an advertisement that no one has ever seen?
Folks jump and down 24/7 about card doctors and fakes. And once the back of that card was posted there was no longer a debate if the card was good it is a modern FAKE. Everyone makes mistakes me more than most but letting this drag on is just beyond the bounds of what I thought net54 considered ethical.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-18-2019, 09:30 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 994
Default

you drew a lot of conclusions from a one sentence post. scott was right. bravo. no need to flex.
__________________
R0nnie L3hman
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-18-2019, 10:31 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 View Post
act like youve been there before.
Don't like to lie
__________________
Great experience buying from edjs and mybuddyinc. Check out my ebay store, weird, eclectic, accurate, and reasonable! http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarian-Sports-Cards Also check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-19-2019, 08:45 AM
Cozumeleno's Avatar
Cozumeleno Cozumeleno is offline
An$on
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 853
Default

Jeff - I have an advertising cut and it is on significantly thicker stock than the regular cards. I'll check the size of mine tonight vs. one of my 'regular' cards. Mine is the type with the Buchner advertisement on back, however, while yours appears to be the other blank-backed version, so even that might not help too much.

As you stated, just because it isn't a checklisted card doesn't mean it is not a legitimate poster cut. I haven't seen one of the blank-backed types in person so can't speak to your stock and how it should look/feel, as well as the size of it. You'd probably need someone with one of those to weigh in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teza11 View Post
Thanks for the additional comments. Its clear that this is not a checklist series add, however I dont consider it to be fake. If it was produced for/by the Gold Coin company for advertising purposes, then its a genuine cut-out from a period banner, poster, counter card, etc. Even if it did not make if off the production floor (i.e. a proof), Id still consider it to be genuine. Maybe that helps to explain the inaccuracies like color, striping, or whatever.

I still have two questions that Id appreciate your help with
(1) Can someone with a N284 advertising cut-out and a N284 series card verify that the cut-out card is slightly taller than the series card?
(2) Does anyone have an advertising cut-out card for a player not on the N284 series checklist?

Jeff
__________________
Primary Interests:
T201 Mecca Double Folders (17/50)
T205 Gold Border (208/208)
T206 White Border (520/520)
T207 Brown Background (195/200)
T218 Champions (153/153)
E90-1 (83/121)
E91-A/B/C (55/99)
N28/N29 Allen & Ginter (31/100)
W512/W513 (96/100)
1933-41 Goudey Run (154/478)
1939-41 Play Ball Run (221/473)
1982-83 Wrestling All-Stars PSA Set (63/108)

OBC Member

Creator of:
www.prewarcards.com
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-19-2019, 09:38 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
Act like he's been there before Lol... what about the big guns that stepped up and said this card was good? When do they do the right thing? Or is ok for the OP to go to the national and sell this card and say" so and so and so and so both said it was good so I am completely justified in passing on this modern fake off as a possibility cut from an advertisement that no one has ever seen?
Folks jump and down 24/7 about card doctors and fakes. And once the back of that card was posted there was no longer a debate if the card was good it is a modern FAKE. Everyone makes mistakes me more than most but letting this drag on is just beyond the bounds of what I thought net54 considered ethical.
There is almost no way you can be certain it is fake or real, given the photo and info we have. Saying so, imo, is reckless. I still think it is from an ad but am not sure. If I had it in hand I could be about 95%- 99% but just from a scan the percentage is more like 65% - 70%. Again, just my half cent of wisdom from experiences.
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 07-19-2019 at 09:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-19-2019, 03:26 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

Not my opinion that says this is a fake it is my experiance. Handling ad cards hundreds of regular Gold coins and fakes such as these that seem to pop up here on east coast at flea markets and small shows. Everyone has an opinion...and just like the case with this card opinions can hurt less experienced card collectors.
Fact card is wrong size ad cards are same size as regular cards if cut to proportion.
Fact Color is wrong for a Brooklyn player
Fact This player has never appeared on any known Gold coin ad.
Fact I can see from card back stock is wrong for an ad card.
Would it help to have the card in hand...of course it would..
And my first suggestion to the OP after I told him it was fake was to send to A TPG. Saying "I think it's good go ahead and pass it on" that in my OPINION is reckless.
I dont have the deep pockets some here do and getting burned even for a couple hundred bucks of my limited hobby funds hurts.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-19-2019, 09:17 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,265
Default

Looks fine to me. I collect the fronts whether they have the ad or not. Is it skinned? Sending it to a tpg would not change my opinion,although seeing it in hand might. Why would someone make a "fantasy card" of Toole?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg buchneradfront717.jpg (65.9 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg buchneradfrontb718.jpg (51.9 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg buchneresterbrook014.jpg (74.4 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg buchneresterbrookb015.jpg (64.2 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg buchnergillespie716.jpg (57.2 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg buchnergillespieb719.jpg (48.6 KB, 87 views)
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-19-2019, 10:04 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

Ok I will keep this simple 4 easy question1-Do you have any other players with same pose as posted? 2-Any other Brooklyn players without the pinstripes ? 3- Ever seen this player on an Ad for gold coins? 4-Backs of any of your ad cards look like card posted?
As for reason Money lots of the fakes.
And this is a Card not an autograph opinions dont count it is either real or it is not. This is not a Gold Coin. Simple side by side comparison will show this to be a fact.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

Too hard? Ok I will break it down even more simply than
1- wrong size
2_wrong stock
3-wrong pose
4-Wrong colors
5-wrong back

Look at the card start at back ground( close but inconsistent with All known examples)
Then feet the shoes are way to simple they dont match All known examples)
Uniform no shading again simple drawing not up to the quality of Gold coins
Hands holding what? , hands are again to simple and baseball is not even round. Not matching all known examples...

This is just too simple it dose not Match any known examples and a close look shows drawing to be a MUCH POORER quality than ....again all known examples

When as a young man you were sent out for some shinola did you fall for the stinky brown bag with Shinola written on it or did you inspect it a little closer and come home with the right thing?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old Yesterday, 12:09 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,468
Default

You may be right. And I agree that the motive is almost always money. But if that is the case,and it may be, what is this like a $50 scam? I will stick to my percentages. Would really love to fondle it a little bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
Too hard? Ok I will break it d
own even more simply than
1- wrong size
2_wrong stock
3-wrong pose
4-Wrong colors
5-wrong back

Look at the card start at back ground( close but inconsistent with All known examples)
Then feet the shoes are way to simple they dont match All known examples)
Uniform no shading again simple drawing not up to the quality of Gold coins
Hands holding what? , hands are again to simple and baseball is not even round. Not matching all known examples...

This is just too simple it dose not Match any known examples and a close look shows drawing to be a MUCH POORER quality than ....again all known examples

When as a young man you were sent out for some shinola did you fall for the stinky brown bag with Shinola written on it or did you inspect it a little closer and come home with the right thing?
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old Yesterday, 12:13 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,265
Default

Jonathan, I respect your opinion on this, I'm just not as passionate about my take on this. TedZ mentions a 4th or 5th Brooklyn player found, McClellan, originally catalogued by Burdick, but only recently known. From Lipset's book, Brooklyn cards did not fit the 8 subject pattern of most teams. I looked through my 50 or so cards and I do not have any Brooklyn players.
This card has all the trademarks of the series' artwork. The belt and spats on this card match the style of other cards I have. I have seen different colors on Boston uniforms. I don't have all the answers. It's not my card. If you are right, then the creator of the fake has a better understanding of the set than I do.
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 5,577
Default

The McClellan shown on the old cardboard site also has no pinstripes.
And at least two other subjects have poses that are not duplicated.

I'd have to see the details up close. Modern printing should be really obvious.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old Yesterday, 03:06 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,265
Default

Thanks for chiming in SteveB. Same uniform. To the OP, Jeff, where did you find this card?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg n284 Toole Pitcher Brooklyn o.jpg (42.6 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg n284mcclellan.jpg (45.3 KB, 48 views)
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

Yes maybe the person who faked this card used this uniform as model.( but I think I have seen this player and that card had pinstripes not 100% but I will follow up) But look close he still did a awful job, clearly got shoes wrong the real card like all the real gold coins is more detailed they have laces. The card from the OP just has a simple stright line. Simplified uniform no shading just a few stright lines. And the hands have no thumbs ( I just looked at 50 Gold coins on REA site and all of them have thumbs) and as I pointed out before the item in his hand that is supposed to be a baseball is not round. Any other gold coins have these characteristics? The 2 unique poses you mention both are the right size and have full gold coin backs. So you are never going to post another real gold coin that shares all the characteristics of this card as a fake by definition it shares a few known characteristics.
If you choose to look past the obvious signs that this is neither a gold coin or a gold coin ad card. Then go right ahead but it is a fake. And I for one dont think it is good for the hobby to encourage fakes.
If a guy at a flea market sells 20 or 30 of these types of fakes each year it becomes worth his while. That one is here on Net54 and more than one person thinks it is real shows clearly why people have been doing this sort of thing for decades. If you can suspend reality and sell a story folks believe what they want to be the truth. But in this case you have to ignore a whole lot of clear facts...Again
Wrong size, wrong back, The drawing itself is inconsistent with all known examples.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old Yesterday, 05:07 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 983
Default

This is most likely the pose the faker was trying to repoduce. Side by side you can see all the mistakes. Face being one of the keys. But even the shadow is wrong. I admit no thumb but pose shows no ball unlike the OP card which shows a ball that is completely off scale. And is not even round. Like I said a few similarities just enough to make you get greedy and stop thinking.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg n284 Toole Pitcher Brooklyn o.jpg (42.6 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg Buchner-Gold-Coin-Hoss-Radbourn.jpg (26.7 KB, 37 views)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old Yesterday, 05:09 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,265
Default

Here are 3 blank backs. The Orr is very thick, the other 2 are very thin. I'm not trying to win the argument. I have no vested interest in the card. When I see evidence that it's a fake I will happily admit I was mistaken. What size is he saying the card measures? I am not seeing that. Rob
Attached Images
File Type: jpg buchnersblank1131.jpg (58.7 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg buchnersblankback132.jpg (76.1 KB, 38 views)
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old Yesterday, 05:22 PM
RCMcKenzie's Avatar
RCMcKenzie RCMcKenzie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,265
Default

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg buchnerdoyle134.jpg (64.0 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg buchnerboyle136.jpg (23.8 KB, 37 views)
__________________
Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades)
Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old Yesterday, 05:34 PM
teza11 teza11 is offline
Jeff
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 54
Default

Thanks for the feedback and images Rob. The Toole card measures about 1/8" taller than a standard printed back card.

Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old Yesterday, 06:18 PM
teza11 teza11 is offline
Jeff
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 54
Default

Better picture showing more detail.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Toole o1.jpg (39.9 KB, 28 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help w/ N284 (Buchner Gold Coin) Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 06-11-2004 04:17 PM
Question about Buchner Gold Coin N284 Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 03-27-2002 11:13 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 AM.


ebay GSB