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  #1  
Old 07-08-2019, 12:32 AM
Mainstreetsportscards Mainstreetsportscards is offline
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Default Different take on Trimming/Grading...

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  #2  
Old 07-08-2019, 12:37 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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It is unbelievable to me that:

A. People still don't understand what constitutes fraud

B. You really thought we needed a new thread on this topic.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:23 AM
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2019, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
It is unbelievable to me that:

A. People still don't understand what constitutes fraud

B. You really thought we needed a new thread on this topic.
Post is gone. Maybe he didn't want to be called out for his 89 negative and 54 neutral ebay feedbacks?

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...242031&page=10

Fools indeed.
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:00 AM
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I don't know how people sleep at night with a feedback (and their actions) like that? Here are the most recent negatives....Actually, not sure they are a fit for this forum?


Feedback From When
Negative feedback rating Never received. And got damaged card in other order. Beware! Buyer: s***0 ( 2886Red star icon for feedback score in between 1,000 to 4,999) During past month Feedback conversation
Mike Modano 2018 Leaf ITG Rare Materials Patch 11/15 (#323797865849) US $4.69 View Item
Negative feedback rating WARNING!! Never received item, never answered messages DO NOT BUT FROM!!! Buyer: c***s ( 2724Red star icon for feedback score in between 1,000 to 4,999) During past month Feedback conversation
Brett Hull Signed Full Size Sher-wood Hockey Stick JSA Authentic (#323819112879) US $35.56 View Item
Negative feedback rating Seller is HORRIBLE with responding to messages had to file claim then item came Buyer: 2***g ( 411Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499) During past month Feedback conversation
Gordie Howe Signed 8x10 Detroit Red Wings Photo Auto JSA Authentic (#223532351604) US $59.00 View Item
Negative feedback rating Took the seller almost 2 weeks to ship my item. Will not be buying here again. Buyer: 7***7 ( 805Purple star icon for feedback score in between 500 to 999) During past month Feedback conversation
J.T Realmuto 2011 Topps Pro Debut Rc Signed Auto BGS BAS Authentic #1 (#223525858224)
US $60.00
Best Offer Price was AcceptedThis item was listed in fixed price format with a Best Offer option. The seller accepted a Best Offer price. View Item
Negative feedback rating Do not buy.Seller is a scam artist.Won 2 auctions only received 1. Buyer: 8***0 ( 417Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499) During past month Feedback conversation
(14) Michael Jordan Vintage Costacos Mini Promo Locker Poster Lot (#323810729041) US $2.25 View Item
Negative feedback rating Absolutely terrible. No communication. Never shipped. Very Frustrating. Buyer: o***t ( 4421Red star icon for feedback score in between 1,000 to 4,999) During past month Feedback conversation
Cody Bellinger 2018 Panini Flawless Finishes Gold Auto 5/5 (#223212518545) US $150.00 View Item
Negative feedback rating Seller is unresponsive to multiple messages.Do NOT expect the Seller to respond. Buyer: i***s (private) During past month Feedback conversation
Connor Cook 2016 Panini Impeccable Rc NFL Shield Rc Auto 1/1 (#323782592565) US $58.96 View Item
Negative feedback rating NEVER shipped but marked as delivered. No reply. Opened case with PayPal. AVOID! Buyer: 2***d ( 366Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Michael Jordan 1985 Nike Promo Card Rc WCG 10 (#223504705950) US $43.00 View Item
Negative feedback rating NEVER shipped but marked as delivered. No reply. Opened case with PayPal. AVOID! Buyer: 2***d ( 366Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Ted Kluszewski 1954 Topps #7 Near-Mint BVG 7 (#223504697472) US $25.55 View Item
Negative feedback rating never shipped, ebay had to refund. Buyer: e***v ( 2281Red star icon for feedback score in between 1,000 to 4,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Danny Jansen 2019 Panini Diamond Kings RC Autograph Toronto Blue Jays Z184 (#323781429823)
US $8.00
Best Offer Price was AcceptedThis item was listed in fixed price format with a Best Offer option. The seller accepted a Best Offer price. View Item
Negative feedback rating No communication, junk cards, trash packaging absolute GARBAGE SELLER!!! Buyer: n***r (private) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Andre Dawson 1991 Donruss Elite Series 1599/10000 (#323805425216)
US $20.00
Best Offer Price was AcceptedThis item was listed in fixed price format with a Best Offer option. The seller accepted a Best Offer price. View Item
Negative feedback rating ??????????????????? Buyer: n***s ( 746Purple star icon for feedback score in between 500 to 999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Ed Mathews 1957 Topps #302 VG-EX (#323777094903) US $5.00 View Item
Negative feedback rating Do not buy from this seller zero communication poor transaction no card Buyer: e***s ( 273Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Stephen Curry 2009-10 Upper Deck Rc #234 ER20 (#323786322393)
US $40.00
Best Offer Price was AcceptedThis item was listed in fixed price format with a Best Offer option. The seller accepted a Best Offer price. View Item
Negative feedback rating Sent wrong item, never responded to messages, never got correct card. Bad seller Buyer: a***i ( 896Purple star icon for feedback score in between 500 to 999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Albert Rusnak 2019 Topps MLS Orange Patch /25 U2 (#223470252904) US $15.00 View Item
Negative feedback rating Took 2 week for him to ship, won’t ever buy again Buyer: i***i ( 1691Red star icon for feedback score in between 1,000 to 4,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Wander Franco 2019 Bowman Chrome Top 100 Tampa Bay Rays A13 (#323783129864)
US $10.00
Best Offer Price was AcceptedThis item was listed in fixed price format with a Best Offer option. The seller accepted a Best Offer price. View Item
Negative feedback rating Paid $1000 over 30 days ago. Hasn’t responded to messages or shipped product. Buyer: e***c ( 21Yellow star icon for feedback score in between 10 to 49) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
2018 Panini Flawless Football Hobby Box Factory Sealed Presale (#323770466206) US $1,000.00 View Item
Negative feedback rating one month later, no item, and doesn't respond. Worst ebay experience in 15 years Buyer: a***a ( 16718Yellow shooting star icon for feedback score in between 10,000 to 24,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Eli Manning 2004 Fleer Tradition RC Player of the Day New York Giants W259 (#323770469535) US $1.42 View Item
Negative feedback rating one month later, no item, and doesn't respond. Worst ebay experience in 15 years Buyer: a***a ( 16718Yellow shooting star icon for feedback score in between 10,000 to 24,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Eli Manning 2004 Fleer Tradition RC Player of the Day New York Giants W257 (#223475192771) US $1.42 View Item
Negative feedback rating one month later, no item, and doesn't respond. Worst ebay experience in 15 years Buyer: a***a ( 16718Yellow shooting star icon for feedback score in between 10,000 to 24,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Aaron Rodgers 2005 Bowman Rc #112 Green Bay Packers #2 (#223475192794) US $10.50 View Item
Negative feedback rating one month later, no item, and doesn't respond. Worst ebay experience in 15 years Buyer: a***a ( 16718Yellow shooting star icon for feedback score in between 10,000 to 24,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Dave Winfield 1974 Topps #456 EX RC San Diego Padres N28 (#223475192786) US $12.50 View Item
Negative feedback rating one month later, no item, and doesn't respond. Worst ebay experience in 15 years Buyer: a***a ( 16718Yellow shooting star icon for feedback score in between 10,000 to 24,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Francisco Lindor 2011 Panini Limited Draft Hits Chrome /199 Cleveland Indian V44 (#223475192772) US $0.99 View Item
Negative feedback rating Not authentic seller! Has not sent a card! Does not respond to messages! Buyer: 6***m ( 187Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Donovan Mitchell 2018-19 Select In Flight Auto 77/99 (#323726774743) US $31.00 View Item
Negative feedback rating Negative feedback outweighs the plus. Three weeks after expected date still nada Buyer: h***c ( 2562Red star icon for feedback score in between 1,000 to 4,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
2018 Panini Flawless Football Hobby Box Factory Sealed Presale (#323755511449) US $1,450.00 View Item
Negative feedback rating No communication what so ever. Refuses to even try and reach out to customers Buyer: j***0 ( 1136Red star icon for feedback score in between 1,000 to 4,999) During past 6 months Feedback conversation
Wade Boggs 1983 Topps Rc #498 Signed Auto SGC Authentic (#323766636109)
US $50.00
Best Offer Price was AcceptedThis item was listed in fixed price format with a Best Offer option. The seller accepted a Best Offer price. View Item
Negative feedback rating 6 weeks is gone, no reply to news, no solid behavior, bad experience.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Post is gone. Maybe he didn't want to be called out for his 89 negative and 54 neutral ebay feedbacks?

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...242031&page=10

Fools indeed.
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Last edited by Leon; 07-08-2019 at 08:08 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:49 AM
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It's astonishing anyone can be that bad at customer service.
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:34 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_spaeth View Post
it's astonishing anyone can be that bad at customer service.
psa...Ö...
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  #8  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
psa...Ö...
Wise guy.
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:18 PM
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' ----is different from most prior takes

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 07-08-2019 at 01:19 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:09 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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SO hard to believe he finds nothing wrong with fraud...
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  #11  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's astonishing anyone can be that bad at customer service.
Even more amazing eBay allows him to sell. 5 percent of sellers represent 80 percent of eBay problems
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  #12  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:23 PM
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Open mouth, insert eBay feedback.
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #13  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainstreetsportscards View Post
Last edited by Mainstreetsportscards; Today at 06:33 AM.
Well, I'll be. He is capable of responding to criticism, after all.

I don't what's more astonishing, to me: that his customer service skills are that terrible, or that he'd put his shop name in his signature here. He had to anticipate that at least one Net 54 member would make the connection to his Ebay store, didn't he?

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  #14  
Old 07-10-2019, 09:56 AM
callou2131 callou2131 is offline
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He continued his asinine argument on Blowout for quite a while before giving up. Amazing this guy owns a Brick and mortar store.
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  #15  
Old 07-10-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callou2131 View Post
He continued his asinine argument on Blowout for quite a while before giving up. Amazing this guy owns a Brick and mortar store.
I have always used the if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is more than likely a duck.

So when I see the people sticking up for PWCC, PSA, or saying altered cards are OK......
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  #16  
Old 07-10-2019, 07:39 PM
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What "different take" was originally posted here?
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  #17  
Old 07-10-2019, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by lowpopper View Post
What "different take" was originally posted here?
He said that it's the grading company's fault, not those that scam them and then customers afterwards.

I think he had a wee bit too much Pabst before he made this post.

-Stan Golen

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  #18  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:54 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake View Post
He said that it's the grading company's fault, not those that scam them and then customers afterwards.

I think he had a wee bit too much Pabst before he made this post.

-Stan Golen

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Ah, so the utterly inept grading company gets a pass....

The degree of denial/deflection here is disheartening.
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Ah, so the utterly inept grading company gets a pass....



The degree of denial/deflection here is disheartening.
Who said that? Here's his rant, judge for yourself

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...2&share_type=t

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  #20  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:38 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Ah, so the utterly inept grading company gets a pass....

The degree of denial/deflection here is disheartening.
Nobody's saying that. The problem is he was absolving the actual fraudsters. I think most of us agree there's plenty of blame to go around, but the people who were acting with intent to defraud are, for most of us, the worst of a bad bunch.
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:39 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Here's the OP:

"I keep telling myself who the hell has the right to tell somebody they can't alter anything they own? If you understand the law this is not illegal. You can do whatever you want to your cards. If PSA/BGS/SGC grades the card then that is on there service standards not the guy doing it. This has been going on for over 25 years.

If somebody is selling a card that is trimmed on ebay and you win it, Simply return it, the buyer always wins the case..

Grading companies are never going to even be close to consistent. The whole grading on new cards is a crock of #@#@#@#@ to begin with. The people who pay stupid money for black labels and PSA 10 need to be checked in the head to begin with. There are most likely PSA 9 and BGS 9 of the same quality of card on the market. Vintage cards should just be given an authentic by grading companies and let the people determine the condition on there own.

The people calling out others for trimming cards and finding evidence need to go to the local trophy shop and have one made up for yourself. I hope your proud of your nothing accomplishment.

I understand there is real corruption in any business, but the guy trimming the cards is not doing something illegal, its simply the grading company not having high enough standards. The sad part is the same fools calling out people for trimming will complain when they get their future PSA orders back with trimmed cards. But But I pulled it straight from a Pack??? Well sir you should learn not #@#@#@#@ where you eat because you just made PSA raise their standards......

Ill get this out of the way. I don't trim or alter cards. I simply can see past the foolishness around this topic."

- Jeff Francis
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Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 07-11-2019 at 08:39 PM.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:57 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Here's the OP:

"I keep telling myself who the hell has the right to tell somebody they can't alter anything they own? If you understand the law this is not illegal. You can do whatever you want to your cards. If PSA/BGS/SGC grades the card then that is on there service standards not the guy doing it. This has been going on for over 25 years.

If somebody is selling a card that is trimmed on ebay and you win it, Simply return it, the buyer always wins the case..

Grading companies are never going to even be close to consistent. The whole grading on new cards is a crock of #@#@#@#@ to begin with. The people who pay stupid money for black labels and PSA 10 need to be checked in the head to begin with. There are most likely PSA 9 and BGS 9 of the same quality of card on the market. Vintage cards should just be given an authentic by grading companies and let the people determine the condition on there own.

The people calling out others for trimming cards and finding evidence need to go to the local trophy shop and have one made up for yourself. I hope your proud of your nothing accomplishment.

I understand there is real corruption in any business, but the guy trimming the cards is not doing something illegal, its simply the grading company not having high enough standards. The sad part is the same fools calling out people for trimming will complain when they get their future PSA orders back with trimmed cards. But But I pulled it straight from a Pack??? Well sir you should learn not #@#@#@#@ where you eat because you just made PSA raise their standards......

Ill get this out of the way. I don't trim or alter cards. I simply can see past the foolishness around this topic."

- Jeff Francis
I agree with one statement made above.... this has been going on for over 25 years....people who think it hasn’t been are not thinking logically....it’s a very sad state of affairs...the level of corruption and malfeasance just keeps growing....why? Because it’s very difficult to hold any TPG accountable... it’s just an opinion....people are benefiting on almost every end so people stay hush...guys are passionate about the sport/hobby...guys with money/collectors are passionate about the registry.....dealers/auction houses are passionate about making money using their services....it benefits more to keep business as usual...it’s so sad.....we either have to accept the fact the industry is the way it is... or find something new to find enjoyment in.......

I won’t say, don’t take a dump where you eat...it’s more like don’t bite the hand that feeds you....in my view many benefiting have this philosophy they want the gravy train to continue

Last edited by Johnny630; 07-11-2019 at 09:14 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:16 PM
Kenny Cole Kenny Cole is offline
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Or you could choose to be honest and disclose what you know happened to your card, particularly if you are the one who did it. Pretty simple. And, when you sell a card that you trimmed, it is fraud irrespective of whether the TPG catches it or not. I'm not absolving the TPGers, because it has been made pretty clear that they are doing an abysmal job of performing what they advertise they explicitly say they can do.

But that doesn't matter insofar as the trimmer is concerned. If you trim then sell without disclosure, that is the textbook definition of fraud. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

Last edited by Kenny Cole; 07-11-2019 at 09:18 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny630 View Post
I agree with one statement made above.... this has been going on for over 25 years....people who think it hasnít been are not thinking logically....itís a very sad state of affairs...the level of corruption and malfeasance just keeps growing....why? Because itís very difficult to hold any TPG accountable... itís just an opinion....people are benefiting on almost every end so people stay hush...guys are passionate about the sport/hobby...guys with money/collectors are passionate about the registry.....dealers/auction houses are passionate about making money using their services....it benefits more to keep business as usual...itís so sad.....we either have to accept the fact the industry is the way it is... or find something new to find enjoyment in.......
Sure, but some are being duped into paying top prices for altered cards. Maybe they don't care, but I bet most would.

This is different than back before grading, grading gives alot of people comfort, but that comfort is an illusion.

Even worse are the Brents of the world, who provide an avenue for the scammers.

-Stan Golen

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  #25  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:44 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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Ah, ok.

I read the Pabst bit of the comment as saying that he was wrong to blame the grading companies.

I think all three parties are to blame, the people doing the alterations and using the inept grading companies opinions to hide behind, the grading companies that just can't seem to get it right, and the people who act as .. what's the word, fence isn't quite right.

I almost blame the grading companies more. They hold themselves out as experts, but aren't even close. And they have advertised themselves into the position where their opinion can be used as a shield for fraud - "PSA says it's a 5 so it's a 5, what do I know, I'm just a hobbyist/reseller"
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  #26  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Ah, ok.

I read the Pabst bit of the comment as saying that he was wrong to blame the grading companies.

I think all three parties are to blame, the people doing the alterations and using the inept grading companies opinions to hide behind, the grading companies that just can't seem to get it right, and the people who act as .. what's the word, fence isn't quite right.

I almost blame the grading companies more. They hold themselves out as experts, but aren't even close. And they have advertised themselves into the position where their opinion can be used as a shield for fraud - "PSA says it's a 5 so it's a 5, what do I know, I'm just a hobbyist/reseller"
Agree... and it's the grading companies that enable the entire scandal to perpetuate. Once the butchered card is sealed into the prized slab, it is "gold".
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