M101-5 Ruth (Closed Ebay Auction)

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Posted By: Matt

http://cgi.ebay.com/Babe-Ruth-1915-Sporting-News-RC-rookie-AUTHENTIC_W0QQitemZ160178696319

Now, red flags abound, but let's ignore those and discuss the card on it's merits and use it hone our repro ID skills.

In the newly created Net54 forgery ID section, there is an article on IDing reproductions of exactly this card:
http://www.network54.com/Index/86178

However, the card on ebay seems to pass many, if not all of the criterion:
1)This space between the border and image
2) Space under foot
3) No trimming on bottom of card
4) Gap in the corner of the border

So, looking at the card, was it real or fake?

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Posted By: quan

matt there's a difference between reprints and counterfeits. of course there are also stolen scans, photoshops etc.

i've seen a couple good home-made counterfeits with hi-end printers (and sometime fuzzy off-angle scans) but when you have the cardboard in hand it becomes apparent.

edit: oh yeah...and the ruth is fake....reading the description for about 15sec the seller admits as much.

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Posted By: Matt

quan - You're suggesting a reprint doctored to look like the real thing wouldn't be called a counterfit?

I understand having a card in hand can help, but many of us have no vintage card sources close by and shop online, so that doesn't work.

Again I ask, looking at just the card, is it real or fake and how do you know (or can you not know on this one)?

I don't really care about this card in particular, so just imagine this card was posted by a seller with 300 ebay feedback, who sells all his items raw and there are no obvious flags.

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Posted By: dan mckee

I think this is bad because of the difference in the color of the paper from the front to the back. Could I be wrong? yes but I would bet on me on this one.

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Posted By: quan

usually i brush off these noob questions (smiley) but i like you so here's my system for identifying (not so obvious) reprints/counterfeits and an *** if it applies to this ruth auction.

1. take him for his words when he says it's a reprint***
(...my great grandpa got this card direKly from a paidmont pack and he died of lung cancer in 1939 but i wAsn't there wit him so cant garantee its authenticity...GOD BLESS AMIRKA SUPPORT OUR TROOPS IN IRAQ)

2. when he has a history of selling cheap graded cards but not this 15k card if real***

3. again...trust him when he says it's not authentic*****************************
one more example (...i've had this card looked by 18 different dealers and they told me it's real but i'm not sure so there will be no return)

I guarantee you will eliminate 90% of the fake crap out there if you just follow those 3 rules. If card passes those 3, then u gotta know the particular issues like front font ot a t206, the whiteonwhite of a cracker jack, that n300 mayo have black backs...or why this ruth have a white back like my 1989 score card right out of the pack while the front is so toned!

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Posted By: Matt

quan - thanks for entertaining the question, but I think you're missing my point. The auction is over and done with and clearly we knew not to bid due to the flags.
The question was:

just look at the card - forget the seller.

can you tell?

the answer seems to be the back being so white is the giveaway...

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

It's a counterfeit, or it's two different scans. The front is almost certainly m101-5, and the back is m101-4. No way you have a toned front with a white back like that. TSN cards are not toned like that either, so if he tried to photoshop the back to look more yellow, that would be another sign. I am unaware of any authorized (licensed) reprints of m101-4, so this is a case of two "cards" being scanned, printed, and melded into one through a re-back, or, as I mentioned, it's two separate cardscans. Either way, it should be even more obvious once the "winner" receives it, although it is obvious now also.

Edited to add: BTW, the "card" is trimmed, and there is one other obvious clue it's fake, but I'm not sure I should say, as the pinhead seller could be reading and the blunder could be corrected.

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Posted By: Matt

Todd - would you at least email me what that other clue is?

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Posted By: Bob

I guess if you have the money to spend $600 a pop for Star Wars action figures and $200 for Albert Pujols shiney cards, you can throw away $3500 on a bad fake Ruth card....