National prices?

[Leon]

As I was going through my cards I am taking to the National to sell, I was putting prices on them. I adjusted most of them down because of the economy. Any thoughts on what you think prices will be like? Will they be like the ebay BIN museum pieces, or more like a real sale with fair prices? I spoke with a large ebay and website dealer earlier today and he said he thought the economy might take a toll on buyer's budgets. I concurred but said I feel the less seldom seen cards and good buys will still do ok. The 2-4 yrs old inventory with no adjustment in prices will be back next year .

[Kzoo]

First of all, I'm happy when dealers actually put prices on their cards, instead of wasting everyone's time when they have to look something up. Leon, your table with make me happy (especially since you're already dropping prices!!).

I think many dealers should/must/will have competitive/flexible prices on cards at the National due to the economy and the fact they have to pay for their expensive tables and lodging. If not, they'll be the ones complaining about sales on Sunday afternoon. In my opinion, it will be a good year for buyers that have some patience and some extra cash. I'm personally looking forward to buying some good stuff!

Matt

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Kzoo

First of all, I'm happy when dealers actually put prices on their cards, instead of wasting everyone's time when they have to look something up. Leon, your table with make me happy (especially since you're already dropping prices!!).

I think many dealers should/must/will have competitive/flexible prices on cards at the National due to the economy and the fact they have to pay for their expensive tables and lodging. If not, they'll be the ones complaining about sales on Sunday afternoon. In my opinion, it will be a good year for buyers that have some patience and some extra cash. I'm personally looking forward to buying some good stuff!

Matt

And btw, I get the idea behind putting prices on the backs of the cards so dealers can have dialogue. The prices on my cards will all be on the fronts. That is always a tiny pet peeve (not a big one) of mine.

[calvindog]

Leon, you're a cock-eyed optimist, much like Billy Mumphrey. As you noted, the BIN ebay prices are still insane; there's no reason to believe that the dealers at the National -- most if not all sell on ebay -- will suddenly be hit with a dose of reality and adjust their prices. I was pretty stunned by how crazy the prices were last year and I expect more of the same. Some dealers are realistic during a negotiation and some just are not.

[bbcard1]

There are a lot of dealers who don't realize they are collectors but their pricing makes them that way. I hate not making the national this year, and I certainly always spend all my money, but I have not found the national to be a very good buying experience.

I would expect realized prices on mid grade stuff to be down a bit.

[Big Ben]

Hey Leon, what is your table number at the National? If you are there on Sunday I'll be certain to stop by.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Big Ben

Hey Leon, what is your table number at the National? If you are there on Sunday I'll be certain to stop by.

We will be at table 538 but not positive about setting up on Sunday.....

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Leon, you're a cock-eyed optimist, much like Billy Mumphrey.

Leon, just don't get mixed up in world diplomacy or international intrigue. The stakes are just too high.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Leon, you're a cock-eyed optimist, much like Billy Mumphrey. As you noted, the BIN ebay prices are still insane; there's no reason to believe that the dealers at the National -- most if not all sell on ebay -- will suddenly be hit with a dose of reality and adjust their prices. I was pretty stunned by how crazy the prices were last year and I expect more of the same. Some dealers are realistic during a negotiation and some just are not.

I would be surprised if there are more than a handful of folks with realistic/reasonable prices.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would be surprised if there are more than a handful of folks with realistic/reasonable prices.

Agreed. I think that the great majority overprice by far; some come down to market prices if begged considerably.

[camlov2]

Originally Posted by calvindog

As you noted, the BIN ebay prices are still insane; there's no reason to believe that the dealers at the National -- most if not all sell on ebay -- will suddenly be hit with a dose of reality and adjust their prices.

However... seeing someone holding dollar bills might make a reduced sale more tempting to someone who hasn't sold items in a while.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by camlov2

However... seeing someone holding dollar bills might make a reduced sale more tempting to someone who hasn't sold items in a while.

The psychology works both ways. Sellers know buyers don't want to come home with nothing but a Net 54 pin, so they are banking on people being willing to overpay for that card they really want.

[4815162342]

I would agree. The captive audience of buyers with cash burning holes in their pockets trumps the casual eBay window shopper.

[4815162342]

If you're not going to bring out the "good stuff" at the National, when in the world are you?

[peterose4hof]

Can anyone confirm or debunk the theory that dealers are willing to make better deals on Sunday because they don't want to take their inventory home with them?

[Rich Klein]

If the dealer had a good show or not. If the dealer had a bomb of a show (that does happen) and if they are still around on Sunday -- then cash in pocket beats merchandise going back home.

Your best deals do come at the very beginning (Beginning with Tuesday set up -- through Wednesday Night) and at the very end.

But good deals do pop up all weekend. I bought many cool things for the Beckett archives in my day wandering around all weekend. Sometimes Sunday would be my best day for pickups as some dealers left so others spread out -- or new items would be on display.

Now, since my purpose in going is different --- I don't pay as much attention to that as I used to

Rich

[bijoem]

I wish I was there with you guys.

Have a good time!

[calvindog]

I'm bringing MAJOR Taddy cash. MAJOR.

[Fripples]

Leon,

If you could do me a favor while you're at the National? Tell Lichtman to quit stealing my jokes. Billy Mumphrey, the 'cock-eyed optimist' is mine.

Have an awesome time and I'm peeved that I'm absent. Bye!!

Fripples

*token Middle East PhD*

[4815162342]

I got a really good deal on a few t206s, and got a few post war cards, but besides that, yes a lot of tables had prices @ 1.5-2 times market value. I negotiated the best I could, and politely walked away if the price was unreasonable. That's all you can do. It was funny how many times I heard "come back Sunday and I'll sell it to you at that price!"

[Kzoo]

Like most have already noted, a lot of prices were laughable, but having some patience and searching yielded a few good deals on e95's for me. eBay definitely has better deals, but walking the floor for two days was a blast!

Matt

[Big Ben]

Just got back from my first National. I want to thank people here for their tips about the show etc. I definitely used a lot of the tips which helped make my experience a very enjoyable one. I agree with a lot of comments on here about pricing. If the prices were not shown, I would ask the dealer about the price and if the price was the usual 1.5 to 2 times the ebay price I politely thanked the dealer and walked away. I tried to negotiate on a couple of those type of deals (priced 2 times greater than ebay) and got nowhere. That being said, after considerable walking around, I found and negotiated a nice T206 PSA 3 Cobb and ended up buying that card. Overall a very enjoyable experience. Would I go to another National. YES.. That being said, it would take a lot of convincing for me to attend more than one day.

[HRBAKER]

I just rolled in from my tenth National this afternoon. Had a great time, picked up a few things and probably overpaid for some of them. My choice.

I don't think that the National is, was or will be the place for bargain hunting or even market-reflective pricing. The prices are high generally and to me it functions more as a seller's marketplace rather than a buyers. By and large most people who aren't selling junk know that most of us don't want to go home empty handed.

To me the National has become more of a planned vacation where I pick up a few things, meet up with the crew I have attended all ten with and also renew hobby acquaintances on an annual basis.

[tbob]

As usual prices were high but any buyer who pays the listed price just doesn't get it. Dealers mark up their cards because they can then come down some and sell the cards for prices they actually want.
As predicted, you could hear crickets at the 707 tables. Ebay too high prices, Convention too high prices. I looked at ebay a couple of times and the same guys with ridiculous BINs were at it again during the Show.
Now, that said, there were bargains. I managed to score a very nice E90-1 Cobb, a sharp E102 Matty and the best looking T207 Weaver PSA 2 in existence (formerly in a PSA 7 holder but that's a story for another day). Beckett bumped the Weaver to a 3 and it still looks undergraded but I understand the grade and it is a killer card. Thanks to Richard Masson for that one.
To me the key was to buy from 54ers you knew. They were reasonable and I bought a beautiful T213-3 PSA 7 Kelley from Ed Hans for a nice price.
I managed to find a PSA 6 "thin" Matty Domino Disc for $100 which is a real bargain. Pete Calderon sold me an E94 gold Cobb for my master set, thanks Pete! I understand he had a higher offer after he agreed by email to sell it to me. Pete is head of consignments for Heritage and I recommend people consider contacting him for future consignments as he is great to work with and a solid guy in the hobby.
On the other hand, some dealers refused to budge on their prices and I paid almost full sticker price for some Series 5 and 6 T210s. They just aren't out there anymore in nice shape, so you have to somtimes bite the bullet.
A mixed bag, but I had fun. I sold some duplicate M116s to 54ers and one made its way in to an 80 holder so I was happy about that. I sold some Home Run Kisses (non Portland guys) and helped pay for some cards.
Now back to the ebay wars

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I just rolled in from my tenth National this afternoon. Had a great time, picked up a few things and probably overpaid for some of them. My choice.

I don't think that the National is, was or will be the place for bargain hunting or even market-reflective pricing. The prices are high generally and to me it functions more as a seller's marketplace rather than a buyers. By and large most people who aren't selling junk know that most of us don't want to go home empty handed.

To me the National has become more of a planned vacation where I pick up a few things, meet up with the crew I have attended all ten with and also renew hobby acquaintances on an annual basis.

I completely agree with Jeff's statements and could not have said it better myself. This was my 5th straight National and 7th overall. Had a fantastic time as usual. There was a memorabilia item that I didn't buy last year, but the dealer still had it, so I pulled the trigger and bought it this year. I actually saw 3 concerts on this planned vacation. It was a pleasure meeting some guys from Net54 (Hi Blair !!!!!, etc,...) that I haven't met before.