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  #1  
Old 02-10-2019, 05:15 PM
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Al@n Kle!nberger
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Default Need A Little Help...

Hello everyone. I'm a long time collector and I've recently been digging through some long-neglected boxes of stuff I've picked up over the years.
One lot I've rediscovered is a bunch of autographed material I picked up over twenty years ago. I had pulled, catalogued and kept the more attractive stuff (signed gum cards and PC's), but a lot of cuts and oddball items remained in the box until now. Notably, I've pulled out a quantity of team sheets - pieces of paper or card stock autographed by anywhere from four to a dozen players. All of them date to about 1962 or 1963. While the obvious stuff (Mantle, Maris, Clemente etc) has been pulled, there's still a lot of good material. Anyway, here is a 6x9 piece of notebook paper with five Pittsburgh Pirates signatures. I can make out Smokey Burgess, Don Schwall, Jim Pagliaroni and Joe Gibbon easily enough, but I'm stumped by the one in the middle. Ted something? Anybody recognize this?

WARNING - I may be posting more of these things as my ability to decipher 55-year old signatures hits an occasional snag. In the meantime, thanks everybody!

Alan Kleinberger
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  #2  
Old 02-10-2019, 06:04 PM
saltbox68 saltbox68 is offline
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Looks like Ted Savage, middle 1960s.

Last edited by saltbox68; 02-10-2019 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:26 PM
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Mmmmaybe..I've checked my Ted Savage signed cards and there are some similarities, but also some differences. Any other guesses?

Okay, just to pile on, here's another one. It's a Houston sheet where I've got everyone ID's except for the very last one at the lower right, below Bob Bruce. Any idea?

And yes, I know whose signature that is at the middle right. Anyone have any guesses as to the value of this sheet, given the scarcity of that name?

Alan Kleinberger
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:17 PM
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I'd guess the signature below Bob Bruce, is Howie Goss.


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Old 02-10-2019, 08:29 PM
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I would also agree on the one being Ted Savage. If you look on ebay, you'll see where there is a Cardinals team issue with a facsimile autograph that matches up, and also his 1971 Topps card has a facsimile autograph that matches how the "e" in Ted is written. Evidently, he signed that way early in his career, and later changed to the more common lower-case "e".
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  #6  
Old 02-10-2019, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akleinb611 View Post
Hello everyone. I'm a long time collector and I've recently been digging through some long-neglected boxes of stuff I've picked up over the years.
One lot I've rediscovered is a bunch of autographed material I picked up over twenty years ago. I had pulled, catalogued and kept the more attractive stuff (signed gum cards and PC's), but a lot of cuts and oddball items remained in the box until now. Notably, I've pulled out a quantity of team sheets - pieces of paper or card stock autographed by anywhere from four to a dozen players. All of them date to about 1962 or 1963. While the obvious stuff (Mantle, Maris, Clemente etc) has been pulled, there's still a lot of good material. Anyway, here is a 6x9 piece of notebook paper with five Pittsburgh Pirates signatures. I can make out Smokey Burgess, Don Schwall, Jim Pagliaroni and Joe Gibbon easily enough, but I'm stumped by the one in the middle. Ted something? Anybody recognize this?

WARNING - I may be posting more of these things as my ability to decipher 55-year old signatures hits an occasional snag. In the meantime, thanks everybody!

Alan Kleinberger
Definitely Ted Savage. Look at the "e" and "d" in Ted.

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Old 02-10-2019, 09:13 PM
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Okay, you've convinced me on Ted Savage; I was thrown off by the fact that he didn't seem to use the final "e" in his last name. As for Howie Goss, wow - I never would have suspected, but the more I stare at it the more I think you're right.

Final one of the night - this seems to be a mixed Giants/Orioles sheet, and I've got everyone figured out expect the first name at the upper left, and the last one ("Clark" somebody) at the lower right. Any ideas?

As always, I'm very appreciative for all the help.

Alan Kleinberger
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  #8  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:28 PM
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Clark Nealon was a sportswriter for the Houston Post in the 1960s.

I checked on ancestry.com, and the signature on your sheet matches exactly with his WWII draft registration card.


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  #9  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:31 PM
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The one at the top-left of your last post, is Fred Hutchinson, manager of the Cincinnati Reds.

Steve
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Successful BST deals with Leon, veloce, shammus, lharris3600, jimivintage, sb1, seablaster.

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1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
T205 Adkins, Donohue, Fisher, Graham (Cubs), A. Leifield, Wilhelm
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  #10  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:36 PM
BillyCox3 BillyCox3 is offline
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Hutch had uniquely beautiful penmanship. That particular signature is the nicest one of the many I've seen. Too bad it wasn't alone on a vintage 3X5 signed far away from the meddling hands of Kerby Farrell!
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  #11  
Old 02-10-2019, 10:05 PM
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Thanks everyone! The information on Clark Nealon is interesting; the previous sheet I posted had Houston broadcaster Loell Passe on it, so the kid collecting these autos didn't avoid the gentlemen of the press!

As for Hutchinson - yes, of course, I see it now. I have other Hutchinson auto's, and the only reason I didn't spot this one was that there are no other Reds signatures on it. This sheet is really all over the place! Thanks again, and I promise to push my luck and try your patience some more tomorrow!

Alan Kleinberger
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:28 PM
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Okay, back for more. I hope some of you are at least enjoying these auto sheets - and I'm still very grateful for all the help.

This first one for today sports an impressive 15 signatures, made up mostly of
Cleveland Indians players. I've got most of them, but I can use some help with the second sig at the extreme left, the one next to Jim Perry. I also need some help with the upside down auto at the bottom left. Sorry I've not good enough with computers to flip it around for you.

Any ideas?

Alan Kleinberger
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  #13  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:32 PM
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I think the one next to Jim Perry, is Sam McDowell.

Steve
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  #14  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:39 PM
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I also think the upside-down one is Chuck Essegian.


Steve
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Successful BST deals with Leon, veloce, shammus, lharris3600, jimivintage, sb1, seablaster.

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1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
T205 Adkins, Donohue, Fisher, Graham (Cubs), A. Leifield, Wilhelm
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  #15  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akleinb611 View Post
Mmmmaybe..I've checked my Ted Savage signed cards and there are some similarities, but also some differences. Any other guesses?

Okay, just to pile on, here's another one. It's a Houston sheet where I've got everyone ID's except for the very last one at the lower right, below Bob Bruce. Any idea?

And yes, I know whose signature that is at the middle right. Anyone have any guesses as to the value of this sheet, given the scarcity of that name?

Alan Kleinberger
I see pitcher Jim Umbricht on this sheet, who is a desirable autograph due to the sad fact that he died from cancer at the young age off 33.........
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  #16  
Old 02-11-2019, 06:26 PM
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Thanks again for the quick turnaround. The results have been coming much faster than I could have hoped!

The next one is a White Sox sheet that's easy to decipher, except for the signature at the lower right, under Jerry McNertney. Any ideas?
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  #17  
Old 02-11-2019, 07:20 PM
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Last one looks like Herb Score.

Steve
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1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
T205 Adkins, Donohue, Fisher, Graham (Cubs), A. Leifield, Wilhelm
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  #18  
Old 02-11-2019, 08:30 PM
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Thanks again, Steve! You're on fire! Hope you're not getting bored with this...

One more for tonight, a Dodgers sheet, seven sigs. I've figured out Larry Burright, Ralph Branca, Wally Moon, Phil Ortega and Tim Harkness. I'm stuck on the signature in red below Wally Moon, Jerry D-something, and the one at the bottom. There must be some hard-core Dodger fans out there who recognize these autographs, right?

Thanks again in advance.

Alan Kleinberger
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  #19  
Old 02-11-2019, 08:34 PM
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Okay, wait a minute, I'm getting good at this. The auto in red is Jerry Doggett, the broadcaster.

Still need help with the one at the bottom right...

Alan Kleinberger
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  #20  
Old 02-11-2019, 10:27 PM
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That last one is a real stumper.

The closest I can get is Claude Osteen, but he didn't join the Dodgers until 1965. He was with the Washington Senators from 1961-64.

Larry Burright was with the Dodgers only in 1962; he was with the Mets in 1963-64. Tim Harkness also joined the Mets in 1963.

Ralph Branca was gone before the Dodgers moved out of Brooklyn, but his presence is understandable, as the Dodgers have always been one of those organizations who have embraced and welcomed back their former players, especially as spring training coaches and advisors.

Steve
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Successful BST deals with Leon, veloce, shammus, lharris3600, jimivintage, sb1, seablaster.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
T205 Adkins, Donohue, Fisher, Graham (Cubs), A. Leifield, Wilhelm

Last edited by Steve D; 02-11-2019 at 10:30 PM.
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  #21  
Old 02-11-2019, 10:54 PM
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I was once in line behind an old man at the supermarket. He presented a coupon to the cashier and asked, "Do I have to buy five of these to use this?"

The cashier replied, "Yes".

"Wes?!?!"

To avoid being impolite, I had to exit the building to burst into laughter. Why on earth would the reply have ever been "Wes"? Couldn't he have just taken a stab at it and assumed it was yes?

Long story short, I'm always reminded of this moment in time whenever I see anything about or happen to bump into Wes Parker.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:04 AM
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I think BillyCox got it!

That last one looks like an early Wes Parker.

Steve
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Successful BST deals with Leon, veloce, shammus, lharris3600, jimivintage, sb1, seablaster.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
T205 Adkins, Donohue, Fisher, Graham (Cubs), A. Leifield, Wilhelm
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  #23  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:05 AM
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You guys are the best!

As for Branca, something I should have mentioned is that these team sheets are filled with signatures of older players. I think the original collector had a soft spot for Old-Timer's games. One sheet I haven't put up (because I can identify all of the signatures) has a mixture of early Mets, and HOF players like Zack Wheat and Frankie Frisch.

Anyway, I'm taking a few minutes off from work to post another piece. Please let me know if I'm exceeding hobby etiquette by asking for so much help. This one is a Red Sox piece from the same period as the others. The mystery auto is at the left center, between Bill Goodman and Bob Tillman. Thoughts?
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:52 AM
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It's Bill Gardner, not Bill Goodman and below him is Pumpsie Green
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  #25  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:20 AM
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Once again, thank you. There's nothing like the wisdom of the crowd.

Looking at these pieces, I'm struck by how modest our expectations were back in the day. I can't imagine that the collector who snagged all of these signatures concerned himself about using the right pen, having the signatures line up properly, or any of the stuff so many of us lose sleep over these days. Just getting an autograph, on any handy scrap of paper - that was good enough.

Last one for the time being - this is a mixed bag, mostly Giants. I do see Harmon Killebrew at the top, so who knows where this was obtained. Also some old timers - Joe Haynes and Tom Henrich. The mystery is the signature at the lower right - Joe Binks. I believe he was an Olympic athlete - can anyone provide more details on this? I don't imagine he was hanging around at a ballpark, so most likely the collector got the auto somewhere else and just used this sheet. Anyone have any other theory?

Alan Kleinberger
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  #26  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:00 AM
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That is Joe Burke ...longtime baseball career ..front office for the Louisville Colonels in the 1950's, Senators in the 1960's and most notably the general manager of the KC Royals mid 1970's to early 1980's
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:55 AM
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Now THAT makes MUCH more sense! Thank you!

If nothing else, that proves that even in the good old days of good penmanship, it was possible to get names completely wrong!

Alan Kleinberger
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:48 PM
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So, that seems to do it for now; I've got lots of other random cuts, index cards and even photos where I need help identifying the signature, but I'll hold off for a time to give you guys a rest! I can't emphasize enough how grateful I am for your help. I've been a member of this board for years, even thought I don't post much, but I never cease to be amazed at how generous most of you are with your time and your expertise.

For a final gesture, here's a sheet in this collection where I've identified all the players (note the post-it listing the names at the upper right), but I thought you'd get a kick out of seeing it. I believe it was obtained at an old timer's game at the Polo Grounds during the NY Mets' legendary inaugural season.

Again, thank you.

Alan Kleinberger
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