'55 all americans

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Posted By: macboube

I did post two scans of some GEM MINT 10's in this very forum last week. Problem is, Leon and most of the old prewar dudes are pissed off about me doing this here. Of course, I did post them on Postwar Football as well, along with scans of some great 8.5's and 9's, too. These are cards I have lying around. The really great cards I intended to get out of the vault and scan and post (in the football section) next week. We'll see.

Fyi - Posting on any other forum other than here gets virtually no results/responses and is a useless waste of time. That is why I have posted here, but if my story about what most consider an amazing 53 year old VINTAGE card find is unwelcome, so be it.

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Posted By: Jim VB

This is a PRE-WAR (WW II, by the way), BASEBALL card forum.

Your cards qualify as NEITHER pre-war, nor baseball.


You complain that posting on the correct forum gets little or no response. So the solution is to post on the wrong forum and then get mad when people don't care? Sure. That makes sense.

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Posted By: macboube

Leon gave me a solution after the very first post and that was to wait a day or two to see if there was any feedback on the Postwar Football site (where my original post was) and if there was not, then post here. Sorry for following instructions. Consequently, Leon asked to cease any/all of my '55 AA posts here, so after this thread is history, so am I and the AA topics in this forum. No worries dude..........

fyi.........My solution which would be a benefit to anyone with exciting and pertinent vintage card topics (and in my opinion, a 54 year old card is "vintage")would be to have an open forum page to anyone with pre-1960 card topics, baseball, football, non-sports, et al. That is a much more sound cutoff period than WW II in this day and age.

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Posted By: Rob D.

Ah, thank goodness for the daily, meaningless bump of this thread. It's as sure of a thing as the sun coming up.

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Posted By: leon

You are certainly entitled to your opinion(s). First and foremost this is a Pre-WWII Vintage Baseball card chatboard. It has been from day 1. You might not have been here since the beginning but I have. I always wanted a more focused chatboard and at one time even split off and made another. Rest assured that this front page chatboard will continue to be entirely what it is. We (myself and Brian M) made the other side of the board, which doesn't get the participation this one does, in response to our members that want to talk about other things. We try to be somewhat lenient while being FOCUSED on the front page. It is a balancing act. At first you did do as I asked and I appreciated it. It was still considered off topic on this main board but I/we made an exception.

The exception was not supposed to be the rule that basically said....."if I post on the other forums and get little or no response, REPEATEDLY, then I can post other stuff on the front page"....That is not what was ever meant to be. I know you are taking this a little personally but it really isn't personal at all. You are probably a great guy and just want a good place to chat about other cards. Unfortunately this front page won't be one of them. I am sure there must be other chat boards that will be more to your liking for discussing football and other sports. I hope this sort of explains my feelings on the subject. BTW, there is no reason to disparage the other boards we have. best regards

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Posted By: Jim VB

From the Network54 Forum Rules (carefully hidden in an icon at the top of the page.):

About This Forum
This is an open, moderated forum created in September 2001 for discussions about Pre-WWII vintage Baseball cards.



You said:

My solution which would be a benefit to anyone with exciting and pertinent vintage card topics (and in my opinion, a 54 year old card is "vintage")would be to have an open forum page to anyone with pre-1960 card topics, baseball, football, non-sports, et al. That is a much more sound cutoff period than WW II in this day and age.


Look, you are entitled to your opinion, but if that's the definition of a board you want, go ahead and start one. The people who started this board drew the line at WW II. They also drew the line at Baseball. They later created options for topics outside of these guidelines. You are trying to modify the stated purpose of this board.

You were certainly fine to follow Leon's advice by trying a post here after you got little response on the football board, but when you didn't get the response you wanted here, I think you took it too far. If people aren't interested in any given topic, they won't post. But you can't complain about it.

I will give you credit for being civil and decent the whole time. The other moron who plays golf and sings had 4 different threads going because he didn't get the grades he wanted. Between your posts and his, the whole board seemed to be off topic.

No hard feelings (at least from me.) Best of luck with these.

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Posted By: JimB

FWIW, I understand your frustration, but I don't think 17 10's is all that bad. I certainly do not see a call for a 9.5 intermediate grade. Is there that big of a difference between a 9 and a 10 that we need another half step? What would the difference be between the three. To me, and I could be wrong, but the only real difference between a 9 and a 10 is 60/40 centering vs. 50/50 centering. Maybe there is a minor, undistracting printflaw in an otherwise perfect card that would justify a 9 also.
jimB

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Posted By: macboube

For the kind words and sincere suggestions. I've tried he PSA forums and they are not even close to having the informed and intelligent readership that this forum does, let alone the sheer volume.

Jim B - When you get down to brass tacks and are seeking to have the best set on the planet, and are trying to surpass what is already considred to be one of the highest grade sets for any PSA Set Regisrty, the difference between 9 and 10 is humongous. Just as the difference between 9 and 9.5 becomes monstrous. A half grade becomes very large indeed on a card weighted 4, 5 , 6 and so on..........

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Posted By: Jim Thierfelder

I haven't followed the various grading posts all that closely because I am not that interested in grading. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the concept and even have several graded cards. It can be reassuring when purchasing an a expensive card to know that it is, in someone's opinion, authentic and unaltered.

What I can't wrap my head around is why it is so confounded important for someone to have a 9 vs a 10 vs an 8. They are all nice cards and if busted out of their respective holders the casual observer would never tell them apart. It seems to me that the importance of a grade when speaking of higher condition cards is about competition for ranking in a set registry and having a better score than someone else. Competition is great in sports, business, industry, and many other places in life. However, I don't see why competition is so important in what should be a hobby.

Every day there are posts about how trimmed, recolored, doctored, and counterfeit cards are such a blight to the hobby but it seems like one that collectors have brougth on themselves by placing so much importance on a number.

I guess it is easy for me to have this perspective as I would rather have a pile of nice looking T206's than a PSA 10.

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Posted By: Steve

Jim

Great thought out post! One thing you failed to mention though is $$$

The $$$ spread between those grades can be great. But you are right

to most observers grades 8 thru 10 won't be noticed.

I have seen 9's that appear better then 10's and 8's that blow 9's away

(all from within the same set and in some cases the same card)

I recall one time a seller had two of the same cards up for sale,

one in a 9 the other a 10. I won the 9 and IMO it looked nicer then the 10!

And, because most were off bidding on the 10 I got the 9 for what I felt was 1/2

of what it could have gone for. As for the cards being discussed in this thread

$$$ was the underlying factor or money that the OP felt was being left on the table.


Steve

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Posted By: JimB

Sure the $$$ difference could be big. And the ego difference could be big. But my question is: What are the differences in THE CARDS between a 9, 9.5, and 10?
JimB

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Posted By: Doug

Apparently the motto for 2009 is "buy the holder, not the card".

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

nail on head......E.....G....O.......
because to the naked eye, there is no major appreciable difference other than the shape of the number on the slab on some 8/9/10's of the same issue.

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Posted By: macboube

The underlying factor in trying to ascertain above grade 9 is twofold:

1. Highest rank in Registry
2. Highest value

Ego? See number one

I emphatically disagree that the naked eye cannot discern between 8's, 9's and 10's. If yours cannot, get to an Optometrist.

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Posted By: barrysloate

If cards are graded accurately, you can discern slight differences between 8, 9, and 10.

But I've seen overgraded 9's and undergraded 8's- at that point it becomes a blur and they all start looking the same.

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Posted By: Phil

Oh good, I was waiting for our daily bump about football cards.

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Posted By: JimB

I agree with Barry. WHen properly graded, the difference between an 8 and 9 is clear. Though it would be more subtle, one can argue for a clear difference between a 9 and 10. But adding a 9.5 into that mix just seems like in practice it would be adding complete subjectivity since the diference between a 9.5 and a 10 (whatever that might be) would be so subtle as to be bordering between negligible to non-existent.
JimB

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Posted By: Nigel Tufnel

I think they should go to 11.

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Posted By: Doug

They need to go to 11.5 so we know what a high end 11 looks like!

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Posted By: Jim VB

"I think they should go to 11."

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Posted By: macboube

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Posted By: Jason

c'mon.


I think it's fantastic that these are all for sale now on Ebay, as advertised on the BST.
I can't imagine why the thread was started last week

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Posted By: Rob D.

macb,

I'm disappointed there was no bump yesterday; you're slipping. Got any Wacky Packages scans?

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Posted By: Jim VB

Jason, Rob,

In fairness to macboube, he posted this last night on the football board and asked Leon if he could post one pic on the main page, to "vindicate himself." Leon told him it was OK if he posted it in the thread that already existed. (At the time, Leon was "under fire" over the "noise maker" and didn't mind bumping a few things around on the main board.)

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Posted By: leon

Jim is correct....anything to get out from under the bus ....

I didn't feel the same thread was a big deal but I asked for a new thread not to be started. So it's my fault as usual....best regards

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Posted By: Rob D.

Ok, my bad.

But if anyone has a scan of a PSA 10 Gadzooka, let's see it!

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Posted By: Jason L

Leon or any other moderator of this fine Board, because my issue is not with the management of this fine establishment, very honestly.

But if it is permissable or in good etiquette to now use the main forum for sending out teasers for upcoming sales of non vintage baseball materials, I would like to just add that I expect to be bringing to market the finest collection of beat-up Star Wars cards this place has ever seen - so stay tuned!



have a good weekend, everybody.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Leon,

I think you were feeling more "heat" than really existed.

In any social setting (which this board is) there are some unwritten rules. Newcomers who try to inject themselves into an existing group often fail to sense these "rules". On this board, it would be a major faux pas to intimate that Barry was a "crook", Ted didn't know anything about T cards, or that Joann was a "babe", a "broad", or a "hon". (there are lots more examples but those are just a few.) I'm not saying Marshall did ALL these things, but he did get into verbal disagreements with at least Joann and Barry.

By the same token, if a newbie said that Rob D, wonka, myself, et al, were wiseasses, they would be correct and no one would object. (Sorry Rob and John.)

MB3 tried to take the board by storm and crossed a few (OK, a lot) of those lines. He may not be a bad guy, but the personality is a little abrasive. Had he simply apologized to Joann it all would have blown over. Instead he took her suggestions as a personal attack and struck back.

But one of the problems with banning someone like that is that it deters other new members from posting. That's a bad thing. This board and this industry need new people all of the time. (We'll need somebody to sell our cards to someday!) How many times do we read "I've been lurking for years but rarely post..." That's another bad thing.

New people should never be afraid to post, as long as they keep within societal norms of decorum.

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Posted By: Rob D.

Jim,

No apology necessary on the wiseass characterization.

You make valid points. I would add only that I lurked on this board for a significant amount of time before I ever made a post. And I made dang sure that my first post wasn't about Cleveland Indians pennants (and this was before a memorabilia side even existed). I quickly realized that the board is primarily about prewar baseball cards and respected that. So these days when someone makes his or her debut by posting about 1955 football cards -- and then argues that he or she is in the right to do so -- my opinion is that he or she shouldn't be surprised when board regulars ... wait for it ... BRING THE NOIZE.

Edited to add:

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Posted By: macboube

Being new, I find Jim's take very solid. Seems he has some sense and acumen re. we green people. For Jason who is upset about me "advertising" the sale of football cards here, you are incorrect. The only promotion for sale was done elsewhere, in the appropriate places and in private via email. In addition, I have had many favorable responses from people here who appreciate seeing a find like this. I personally appreciate most of the humor on my thread and am beginning to understand this group/forum. Should I say Bring the Noise now?

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Posted By: Rob D.

Agreed. The numerous private e-mails that always are sent in support of off-topic posts are one of the best things about this forum.

Just don't send any to Barry.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm getting a lot of mileage out of my email moratorium.