NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-22-2012, 10:53 AM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Paper loss on Front = PSA 6

This is just plain silly. I can't imagine what ailment the grader has

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T-205-E...#ht_500wt_1205


Lets see those high grade paper loss examples that should be low grade
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-22-2012, 10:57 AM
chaddurbin's Avatar
chaddurbin chaddurbin is offline
qu@n nguy3n
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,688
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pup6913 View Post

Lets see those PSA high grade paper loss examples that should be low grade
fyp.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:04 AM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
KEVIN MIZE
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: VALDOSTA, GA.
Posts: 6,301
Default

are you sure that's not the scan? maybe, tiny pieces of paper that had not been wiped off the holder? no way PSA missed that if it's paper loss.....

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 05-22-2012 at 11:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:05 AM
SetBuilder SetBuilder is offline
Manny
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Key Biscayne, FL
Posts: 611
Default

I have a raw T206 Hulswitt card that looks like a PSA 8. Super sharp corners, no stains, excellent color and centering, etc. The only negative is a tiny speck of paper loss about 0.5mm in diameter (the tip of a pencil) on the front of the card, near the back of his head.

I'm sending it to PSA next month. I'm curious as to what grade it will get. Hopefully a 4 or 5?

Last edited by SetBuilder; 05-22-2012 at 11:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:09 AM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
KEVIN MIZE
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: VALDOSTA, GA.
Posts: 6,301
Default

Manny...my guess would be a psa 4. It's tough to get a psa 5 with obvious paper loss
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:13 AM
Matthew H Matthew H is offline
Matt Hall
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,817
Default

A tiny spec of paper loss downgrading an otherwise NM card to P-F is ridiculous IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:14 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

IMPOSSIBLE...PSA would never miss paper loss...NEVER!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:24 AM
Abravefan11's Avatar
Abravefan11 Abravefan11 is offline
Tim
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,466
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pup6913 View Post
I can't imagine what ailment the grader has
Maybe he thought it was Sunday.
__________________
T206 & Boston National Type Card Collector
T206Resource.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:26 AM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
KEVIN MIZE
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: VALDOSTA, GA.
Posts: 6,301
Default

My point about tiny pieces of paper not wiped off happened to me on a card i bought from goodwin (nov. 11, 2011, lot #373). It is a psa 6 kid elberfeld that appeared to have several defects on the card. It was in fact tiny pieces of paper that had not cleaned off. Might be why it realized the price it did....

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 05-22-2012 at 11:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-22-2012, 12:09 PM
E93's Avatar
E93 E93 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew H View Post
A tiny spec of paper loss downgrading an otherwise NM card to P-F is ridiculous IMO.
+1 JimB

That is a gorgeous card!

Last edited by E93; 05-22-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-22-2012, 12:36 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
D@v!d J@m3s
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,981
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pup6913 View Post
Lets see those high grade paper loss examples that should be low grade
I've shown this before, but his entire left ear is missing:



No paper loss, but here is a nice example of what a PSA 10 should look like:

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-22-2012, 12:41 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abravefan11 View Post
Maybe he thought it was Sunday.
Lmao. Let's just hope he got in the correct car to go home
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-22-2012, 01:12 PM
irishdenny's Avatar
irishdenny irishdenny is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,537
Default

Originally Posted by Abravefan11
Maybe he thought it was Sunday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pup6913 View Post
Lmao. Let's just hope he got in the correct car to go home
Wait a minute.... Was this card Also on the BST?
__________________
Life's Grand,
Denny Walsh
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-22-2012, 01:54 PM
esd10 esd10 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: baltimore oh
Posts: 788
Default

i read in a book called the card about the t206 honus wagner and from what they said its impossible for psa to look at every card from top to bottom they get. it was like 10 seconds or less a card and thats without hollidays,lunch and bathroom breaks and 365 days a year so i doubt every card unless its very high end gets the utmost attention that people pay all that money for. I'm not bashing psa they do a good job most of the time but when you see certain things it makes you wonder what they are doing and who is looking at the cards. Net54 should start a grading service and have the most advanced collectors look and slab our cards i know i would use it in a heart beat.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-22-2012, 01:59 PM
tiger8mush's Avatar
tiger8mush tiger8mush is offline
Rob G.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew H View Post
A tiny spec of paper loss downgrading an otherwise NM card to P-F is ridiculous IMO.
I guess I'm in the minority ... IMO the point of TPG should be to grade the card technically. Sometimes those in the hobby confuse the technical grade of a card with its beauty. If you grade a card a "5" how will a person know it has paperloss, even a spec?

The beauty of a card is subjective. The technical aspect is (well, should be) objective.

Hobbyists often error, IMO, by putting a value on a card based on its grade. Buy the card, not the grade! Let the TPG tell you it has paperloss, or a crease, or an ink mark, or that its trimmed. That stuff is valueable when buying online.

Rob

Last edited by tiger8mush; 05-22-2012 at 02:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-22-2012, 02:23 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by esd10 View Post
i read in a book called the card about the t206 honus wagner and from what they said its impossible for psa to look at every card from top to bottom they get. it was like 10 seconds or less a card and thats without hollidays,lunch and bathroom breaks and 365 days a year so i doubt every card unless its very high end gets the utmost attention that people pay all that money for. I'm not bashing psa they do a good job most of the time but when you see certain things it makes you wonder what they are doing and who is looking at the cards. Net54 should start a grading service and have the most advanced collectors look and slab our cards i know i would use it in a heart beat.
I have often thought of this. I have even went as far as designing a slab to be black/charcoal in color and close to the same size as PSA's. A bright blue and white flip. If the card was crossed over the info of the grading co, grade, and cert number to be included on the back to cut down on pop report issues. The slab would also be made of lexan and sealed air tight. You would have to cut it open to free a card. For those who want protection but don't care about grades we would give an A grade with a notation stating numerical or altered. If altered it would have a code to show the alteration such as 3BT: lower left corner, bottom edge, trim. I would ask guys like Dan mackee, Ted z, and several others for help in authenticating and possibly grading certain issues. Who cares if we are collectors. We care more than them anyways and can give honest expert opinions. Also pricing structures would be flat rate wether its a Wagner or common. Your choice to pay for standard or expedited grading service. Who knows. If I had enough backing I would give it a shot. I have been working on a scanner type machine since 05 for grading cards. Needless to say I am electronically challenged and this is a feat that will cost in the $500,000 range for machine and program each. That's the quote from last yr

Last edited by Pup6913; 05-22-2012 at 02:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-22-2012, 02:30 PM
Matthew H Matthew H is offline
Matt Hall
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,817
Default

Why can't authentication be done with a detailed photograph and no slab?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-22-2012, 06:07 PM
Harford20's Avatar
Harford20 Harford20 is offline
Dave H@rford
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 570
Default Machine Issue

I may be what happened recently to a T205 Marquard for me. PSA graded the card a PSA 3, but when the slab returned, there was a large piece of paper loss on the maroon colored background and a free floating piece in the slab.

I was told that, especially with the T205 cards due to the surface, that the "vibration" associated with the final slab process has frequently broken paper loose that was not noted by the graders.

I was asked to send the card back in; they removed the card from the holder, payed me for the cost of the card and the grading fee and sent the card back in a card saver. They offered to slab as Authentic, but then I would not be reimbursed the card cost.

This card may have a "flake" inside the slab.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:18 PM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harford20 View Post
I may be what happened recently to a T205 Marquard for me. PSA graded the card a PSA 3, but when the slab returned, there was a large piece of paper loss on the maroon colored background and a free floating piece in the slab.

I was told that, especially with the T205 cards due to the surface, that the "vibration" associated with the final slab process has frequently broken paper loose that was not noted by the graders.

I was asked to send the card back in; they removed the card from the holder, payed me for the cost of the card and the grading fee and sent the card back in a card saver. They offered to slab as Authentic, but then I would not be reimbursed the card cost.

This card may have a "flake" inside the slab.

Dave
Well thats great news. Not only do they suck as graders but they have sucky machines that will damage your cards for you
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:32 PM
3-2-count's Avatar
3-2-count 3-2-count is offline
T0NY @
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,844
Default

I'm simply amazed at how many PSA fans continue to state every time someone points out paper loss on an EX or better graded card it just has to be something else. C'mon fellas let's get real can we? All TPG-ing companies (PSA, SGC, etc) all have some suspect cards in their holders. ALL OF THEM!!!!! To defend this otherwise is absolutely ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:27 PM
dherm360 dherm360 is offline
Dave
member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 146
Default

this is the sellers explaination

Q: Hi is that spot up top by the C paperloss or just the scan... Thanks RP May-22-12
A: Thought it might be paperloss at first look but a closer look under a magnifying glass and it appears to be a print defect. Apparently not severe enough to be identified as such though by PSA with the PD they assign for such problems in the description tag. Hope that helps
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:27 AM
Pup6913
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

He must work for PSA.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:32 AM
glynparson's Avatar
glynparson glynparson is offline
Glyn Parson
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Blandon PA
Posts: 2,184
Default ill trust dan and ted for

ill trust dan and ted for authenticty issues, but i would not trust them as unequivocally on alterations or technical grading. Not that I think they'd make some of the dishonest maneuvers being done in my opinion by the grading services. I just don't think they've dealt in the highend market enough to detect some of the subtle alterations being performed to enhance grades.Team them with Kevin and someone else versed in alteration detection and it would be a tremendous service. It would probably fail though as many dealers making their living in high-end cards could get very little through. And would unmercifully bash the service.

Last edited by glynparson; 05-23-2012 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:08 PM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
KEVIN MIZE
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: VALDOSTA, GA.
Posts: 6,301
Default

Just to throw something out there about tpg, i just bought a psa 5 frank chance that looks like a 7.5 or 8.... I can't find any paper loss or wrinkles, this card just simply looks much nicer than the grade. I know alot of people think that i support psa, but where they truly frustrate me is cards that seem to be undergraded. I then turn around and see high rollers (who shall remain nameless) that get every benefit of the doubt with grades. Having said all of that, if you are in the hobby for return on your money when you cash in, psa will bring the top dollar on vintage cards, hands down.....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:42 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 11,237
Default

SAD but TRUE!

"Having said all of that, if you are in the hobby for return on your money when you cash in, psa will bring the top dollar on vintage cards, hands down..... "
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-24-2012, 05:16 AM
rp12367's Avatar
rp12367 rp12367 is offline
Ralph Pr3y€r
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Savannah
Posts: 889
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dherm360 View Post
this is the sellers explaination

Q: Hi is that spot up top by the C paperloss or just the scan... Thanks RP May-22-12
A: Thought it might be paperloss at first look but a closer look under a magnifying glass and it appears to be a print defect. Apparently not severe enough to be identified as such though by PSA with the PD they assign for such problems in the description tag. Hope that helps
That was me who asked, I was going to post his reply, just got super busy workwise. He must work for PSA LOL... Thx Dave for posting.

Last edited by rp12367; 05-24-2012 at 05:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vintage FOOTBALL Cards For Sale - Graded and Raw (1930's through 1990's) Shouldabeena10 Football Cards Forum 2 09-24-2012 10:06 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:24 PM.


ebay GSB