Goodwin HOF Lenox back Brown T206

[danmckee]

Fetches $7700 as a complete beater 2

I put up 2 comparable or better HOFers on ebay for less money with offer and get no bites at all

What does this tell you?????

[jimross]

Shill bidding??

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Fetches $7700 as a complete beater 2

I put up 2 comparable or better HOFers on ebay for less money with offer and get no bites at all

What does this tell you?????

At least two people wanted the Goodwin Lenox really bad. Also those two(or more) don't look at ebay especially the Buy it Nows.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by danmckee

What does this tell you?????

That you should consign yours to Goodwin?

[FrankWakefield]

Could it tell you that Mr. Goodwin knows collectors, knows what they are seeking, that he travels around the country constantly, and that when he gets an unusual item he knows the handful of folks who'd seriously compete for that item? That Mr. Goodwin has a really strong group of customers / bidders / patrons? I doubt it tells you that, sounds like you've already made up your mind. Unset that mind and send Bill 2 or 3 good items, then see how well he does for you. Then post here on how that went.

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by jimross

Shill bidding??

Jim, how irresponsible, careless and stupid of you. You don't know what you are talking about and yet you accuse someone that you probably have never done business with or spoken to. How would you like it if someone came into your place of business and kicked the Slurpee machine. Next time, be careful with your words and take the time to think before you act.

[David R]

As someone who has purchased HOFers with Lenox, Drum, Uzit and Broadleaf backs in the last 12 months, I think the Goodwin and OP's eBay prices are both way too high. It surprises me that the Goodwin card went for that much and it doesn't surprise me at all that the OP's eBay listings haven't gotten a sniff.

That being said, I am happy since I've already bought mine.

[sycks22]

Bill is a great guy and he runs honest auctions I feel. I love how if a price is high everyone immediately assumes shill bidding and not the fact that maybe 2 guys really needed the card for a set or another reason. A lot of cards go for more than what they should, but a lot also go for less than they should. Did the auction houses forget to shill those bids?

[forazzurri2axz]

most of the present-day"" tough back whales"" don't buy on ebay,Dan--

[Matthew H]

Why would a guy, who is already obsessed enough to pay a 6500 premium for a slightly different color ink on the back of a card, not take the 2 seconds to type brown Lenox and hit search... I know it's true but I just dont get it. Dan has had those cards up there for some time now... Is it really that big of a waste of time to look for deals? What happened to the thrill of the hunt?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Why would a guy, who is already obsessed enough to pay a 6500 premium for a slightly different color ink on the back of a card, not take the 2 seconds to type brown Lenox and hit search... I know it's true but I just dont get it. Dan has had those cards up there for some time now... Is it really that big of a waste of time to look for deals? What happened to the thrill of the hunt?

Because typing in brown lenox yields 62 items, none of them baseball cards.

Expanding to include title and description yields 1,811 listings, only one under baseball cards.And it's a pair of big collages.

T206 Lenox finds 31 items, only two with Lenox backs, neither of them brown.

Waste of time ? Yep.

Steve B

[Matthew H]

Ok I just realized they're not brown. The buyer might have seen those. BTW I just typed in t206 lenox and got just two results. Maybe I should know what I'm posting before I hit submit .

[CW]

Either I am confused, or there is some confusion within this thread.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (it has happened before )...

The card sold in Goodwin was a T206 Mordecai Brown card with a standard black (not brown) Lenox back.

Neither of Dan's cards up on eBay has a brown Lenox back -- those are also standard Lenox backs.

[atx840]

As stated these aren't the elusive brown variation, if so these would have been sold by now.

A low grade Tinker recently went for $3100, the last two low grade Chance yellow portraits went under $2k. The PSA 4 hit $8800.

I would tend to agree these are a bit overpriced for their condition.

[Bridwell]

I, for one, will hesitate to buy a card over $3000 on Ebay. Just not sure whether ebay and paypal will refund me if the card never shows up in the mail. Too much of a hassle buying from somebody I don't know if there's no real guarantees.

[mrvster]

Goodwin is in the top 5 of auction houses that realizes the highest prices...

How many mord. brown t206 black lenox cards exist?????????

what's the population??????????

if it is one of the only examples seen could have gone much higher

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Goodwin is in the top 5 of auction houses that realizes the highest prices...

How many mord. brown t206 black lenox cards exist?????????

what's the population??????????

if it is one of the only examples seen could have gone much higher

Could you please reveal the names of the remaining four auction houses , just in case the Widow Garcia needs some funds , 'way in the future , he said hopefully ? Thanks , MikeGarciaAlive

[CMIZ5290]

Bill goodwin is a class act and straight shooter. If and when i decide to part ways with my prized t206s, he's the one that's going to get them.....

[calvindog]

This is a hilarious thread. Too bad there's not a polygraph machine hooked up to Net 54.

[Jlighter]

Even if it was shill bidding, which I am not accusing Goodwin of, someone obviously did set a max bid or bided live on that item for that price. With 7 billion other people in the world it is not that outrageous to believe that someone else would want that item at a high price. As for you not recieving as high of bids, Goodwin has the ear of the World's top collectors, which I can only assume you do not. Please don't see this as an endorsement but as an opinion.

[JohnP0621]

I have won some T206 from Goodwin at very reasonable prices and below what they sell for on Ebay. But when it comes to Rare back T206 there seems to be no limit on what price some collectors will pay. Also , The ones that he sold in his Auction are Graded and yours are not. Most Collectors will never pay 7500.00 for a card that has not been Graded and may be altered. I would get them Graded and send them to Goodwin. You may not get your asking price but you will get the back collectors bidding high for it.

John P

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sometimes people just bid crazy prices.

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=3293

[CMIZ5290]

What in the world is up with that card? What could i possibly be missing?

[atx840]

1962 topps maris/cepeda

The exact card is currently on eBay for a $250 BIN....very odd.

Auction

[philliesphan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sometimes people just bid crazy prices.

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=3293

Don't underestimate the value of a bidding war. The price on that card was so amazingly obscene, how or why could there be any funny business going on with it? It sold for a significant multiple of what 9s sell for (and they come up frequently enough). Legitimate cards do often sell for crazy prices, vintage and modern.

We have a Tiger Woods PSA 10 SI for Kids card that once sold for $125,000, and two Michael Jordan rookie cards in BGS 10 that both sold for over $100k -- seems to me that this 1962 topps may be a blip for a deep pockets collector or two who got into a bidding war.

[calvindog]

Maybe Frank DeRoberto bid on it?

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

most of the present-day"" tough back whales"" don't buy on ebay,Dan--

This may be true but they do buy at shows, I sold my AB Matty for $8500 at the Oaks show, it was a PSA 6.5.

Why would you pay $7700 through an auction house when a $4500 offer would get you one on ebay from a reputable seller? You could have someone else buy it for you if you wanted to stay anonymous.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Could it tell you that Mr. Goodwin knows collectors, knows what they are seeking, that he travels around the country constantly, and that when he gets an unusual item he knows the handful of folks who'd seriously compete for that item? That Mr. Goodwin has a really strong group of customers / bidders / patrons? I doubt it tells you that, sounds like you've already made up your mind. Unset that mind and send Bill 2 or 3 good items, then see how well he does for you. Then post here on how that went.

Hi Frank, I have consigned to Bill, I consigned a T206 Murr'y variation and got absolutely killed on it. It sold for $4k when one less than a year prior sold for $12,500 I believe.

This thread did go crazy!

I am not sure where the "BROWN" Lenox mention came from, all of the cards I have mentioned all have the more common black Lenox.

Maybe the $7700 price was so crazy you gents assumed it had to be brown?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I am not sure where the "BROWN" Lenox mention came from, all of the cards I have mentioned all have the more common black Lenox.

How about the title of the thread "Goodwin HOF Lenox back Brown T206"

[danmckee]

Yea not sure where the brown came from, that was not my mistake

[Matthew H]

I assumed it was Brown due to the price and the thread title. I didn't click the link as I didn't feel the need to see another T206, I apologize.

The price on the brown was crazy... but the price on that 62 topps

[danmckee]

Yes the hammer on the Black beater Goodwin auction at $7700 is a JOKE!!!!!

I haven't had a single bite exce3pt 1 idiot trying to steal the pair of mine on ebay.

Sure looks fishy to me but you board members draw your own conclusions.

Maybe the imbecil that paid $7700 will chime in ?

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Leon

How about the title of the thread "Goodwin HOF Lenox back Brown T206"

DAH! Just saw this!

Too funny

Brown was in Mordecai Brown, not brown back, I can't win.

[CW]

Heck, even some of the lines from the Goodwin Auction description could be misunderstood. The title is clear, but someone with poor reading comprehension skills could be confused with....

NONE could possibly be rarer than this miraculous “Lenox” Brown offering that stands alone on the “pop” charts as the only one of its kind.

Yet, as most meticulous T206 ad back enthusiasts realize, the “right to own a Mordecai Brown Lenox specimen”....

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...Copy-listed-on

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Goodwin is in the top 5 of auction houses that realizes the highest prices...

How many mord. brown t206 black lenox cards exist?????????

what's the population??????????

if it is one of the only examples seen could have gone much higher

This is a great point that maybe people are overlooking, about how many M.Brown black Lenox T206's are out there. I know you can only use pop reports to attempt to "guage" what's really out there, and we never know what could reside in private collections or * what hasn't been discovered but is still out there(like those E98's in the Black Swamp Find, for example).But it's the combination of the player on the front and the scarcity of the back in general, with an estimate on "population", that actually make this a very rare card (IMO).

With that in mind, I'm actually not too suprised that someone who could afford it would pay that much.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Jlighter]

They wrote Super Rare and We won't see one like this in some time. so it must be worth a ton of money.

[JerryTotino]

Clayton,

I totally agree with your statements. It appears that most collectors have not yet fully grasped the impact of how the T206 Master Set collectors will influence pricing. Since these master set collectors are looking for an example of each front/back combination when a combination comes up that is perceived to be very rare then you can throw all reasoning out the window when it comes to prices realized. If you have multiple deep pocketed master set collectors going after the same card the crazy prices make sense.

Also if you pay attention to the prices that some scarce backs are getting in auctions like Goodwin that will also start to make sense. Even scarce backs become rare when you combine them with a player having very few examples of a specific combination available.

Jerry

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Jerry-

Great point on the Master Set collectors. You also may have someone going for an all known confirmed Black Lenox subset, and this would be a must have in that situation as well.

Sincerely, Clayton