Help needed - Wrigley Field team flags

[ooo-ribay]

Hey guys-

I own the purple and white "San Francisco" flag, pictured. It is roughly 3x6 feet. I bought it probably 15-20 ago from an SCD advertiser by the name of Danny or Denny Graziano. As I remember, Mr. Graziano seemed to specialize in Chicago stuff. I believe my flag flew next to the Wrigley Field scoreboard at some point.

I have also seen black and orange "GIANTS" flags also sold as Wrigley flags and I've seen this variety in pictures of the scoreboard. Goldin has one in their current auction:

http://goldinauctions.com/2014_San_F...-LOT16004.aspx

In addition to these two, I've seen other Wrigley flags with the city, rather than team, name.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/San-Diego-Pa...item234e490762

Can anyone explain these discrepancies to me? If I don't have a Wrigley flag, what DO I have? Thanks!

Rob

[RTK]

Try asking here;


http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/

I used to sit in the right field bleachers for a number of years with the guy, Al Yellon, who runs it, one of his bleacher mates is named Mike, the guy is a wealth of Wrigley knowledge. If they don't know, someone will I suspect.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by RTK

Try asking here;


http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/

I used to sit in the right field bleachers for a number of years with the guy, Al Yellon, who runs it, one of his bleacher mates is named Mike, the guy is a wealth of Wrigley knowledge. If they don't know, someone will I suspect.

Thanks, Rick. I sent Al an email....

[RTK]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Thanks, Rick. I sent Al an email....

Please let me know what they say. I haven't seen those guys in years. I stopped going to games every weekend & holiday after the strike. Those guys have been mentioned in a couple books on the Wrigley bleachers. I really miss chatting baseball with them during batting practice.

[vintagesportscollector]

Rob, any chance your flag could be Seals related?

[Darner]

Found this picture on the web showing Wrigley Field flags with city names. Not sure what year this is from. The picture was labeled 1967 but it shows National League East teams and divisions weren't formed until 1969.

[Tigerden]

What you have Rob is am amazing Giants collection !! The banner shows nice use and undoubtedly hung in a stadium , probably Wrigley if your source specialized in Chicago stuff. Looks great on your wall .

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Darner

Found this picture on the web showing Wrigley Field flags with city names. Not sure what year this is from. The picture was labeled 1967 but it shows National League East teams and divisions weren't formed until 1969.

Thanks for that picture, Ed! Nothing I found showed city names.

Preliminary info from Rick's buddy is that city names w/o any kind of team colors were first used, followed by city names on flags in colors that "made sense," followed by today's flags with team names in team colors. I will pass on anything more I learn.

[whitehse]

I used to work in the Stadium Operations department at Wrigley back in the 1980's and am pretty familiar with these flags as the Stadium Operations group is the one that oversaw the grounds crew which are the people responsible for the flags.

First of all Denny Graziano is a Chicago area dealer who I believe specializes in Sports championship rings but back in the day he sold a large amount of Chicago sports memorabilia. I have known his for decades and he is a good guy.

Your pennant and others just like it used to be sold at the Cubs fan convention every year to collectors just like yourself as game used. If they still do it I have no idea but back in the day these were easily purchased from the team. The pennant you have flew over the scoreboard as these were the pennants that displayed the city names. And in case you were unaware....the order of these pennants are changed on the flag pole each day in order to show the standings for the teams in the division. It is rare to see a Chicago team pennant at the top of the pole!

The other pennants you are seeing with the team name are those that fly on the roof of Wrigley Field and can be seen inside and outside the ball park. Usually the team name flags are spread out on their own flag pole with a Cubs logoed pennant interspersed between the team pennants.

So the long and short of it is.....

City name-Flew over the scoreboard to indicate team standings in the division on that specific game day.

Team name- Flew over the roof of the old ball park around the top of the upper deck.

I hope this helps. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Thanks

[btcarfagno]

Recently, was more than one flag used in a year or was it typical for a flag to be there the entire year? I ask because I purchased the Pirates flag from 2013, which is the year the Pirates finally made the playoffs after 1,324,659,045,777,319,056,785,328 years and they clinched at Wrigley. It would be neat to know that mine was 100% the flag that flew over the scoreboard that day.

Tom C

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Recently, was more than one flag used in a year or was it typical for a flag to be there the entire year? I ask because I purchased the Pirates flag from 2013, which is the year the Pirates finally made the playoffs after 1,324,659,045,777,319,056,785,328 years and they clinched at Wrigley. It would be neat to know that mine was 100% the flag that flew over the scoreboard that day.

Tom C

Hey Tom-

Is this the one you purchased?

http://goldinauctions.com/2013_pitts...-lot14258.aspx

[btcarfagno]

Yeppers.

Some day I would love to have it signed by all of the Pirates players who were in uniform that day, though that is likely just a pipe dream.

Tom C

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by RTK

Try asking here;


http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/

I used to sit in the right field bleachers for a number of years with the guy, Al Yellon, who runs it, one of his bleacher mates is named Mike, the guy is a wealth of Wrigley knowledge. If they don't know, someone will I suspect.

I heard from Mike (thru Al)...I hope he doesn't mind me copying and pasting what he had to say. It actually kind of contradicts what Andrew had to say and I'll get to that in a moment...

From Mike: "Wish I could be a bit more definitive, I have not bought a WF flag in many years. All the scoreboard/yardarm flags I am familiar with have the grommet-type anchorage (the lower photo "GIANTS"). The oblong metal ring (top photo "SAN FRANCISCO") is from other parts of the park (rooftop, marquee, etc). It has also been some years since they have hung city-name flags from the CF board, they went to team-name flags at least from the early '80s. My guess is the lower photo flag is from the CF board, the upper photo is a WF flag, but not from the CF board.

Some of the short-duration flags that are hung from the CF board (W flags etc), use a modified clip structure, the flags that are reused from day-to-day use the grommets."

[Tigerden]

...And in case you were unaware....the order of these pennants are changed on the flag pole each day in order to show the standings for the teams in the division. It is rare to see a Chicago team pennant at the top of the pole!

This is probably why there was a photo taken with the Chicago pennant located at the top. Probably taken during the 1969 season and we all know that the Chicago pennant wasn't on top at the end of the season.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by whitehse

I used to work in the Stadium Operations department at Wrigley back in the 1980's and am pretty familiar with these flags as the Stadium Operations group is the one that oversaw the grounds crew which are the people responsible for the flags.

First of all Denny Graziano is a Chicago area dealer who I believe specializes in Sports championship rings but back in the day he sold a large amount of Chicago sports memorabilia. I have known his for decades and he is a good guy.

Your pennant and others just like it used to be sold at the Cubs fan convention every year to collectors just like yourself as game used. If they still do it I have no idea but back in the day these were easily purchased from the team. The pennant you have flew over the scoreboard as these were the pennants that displayed the city names. And in case you were unaware....the order of these pennants are changed on the flag pole each day in order to show the standings for the teams in the division. It is rare to see a Chicago team pennant at the top of the pole!

The other pennants you are seeing with the team name are those that fly on the roof of Wrigley Field and can be seen inside and outside the ball park. Usually the team name flags are spread out on their own flag pole with a Cubs logoed pennant interspersed between the team pennants.

So the long and short of it is.....

City name-Flew over the scoreboard to indicate team standings in the division on that specific game day.

Team name- Flew over the roof of the old ball park around the top of the upper deck.

I hope this helps. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Thanks

Awesome information, Andrew! It could be they were still using the city names when you worked at Wrigley in the 1980's. That is consistent with what Mike says. I know that these days, they are using team names in team colors on the "yardarms."

Mike mentioned the difference between grommets and D-rings but, with all due respect, I'm not sure that would be an identifying location characteristic. Either one will work with a snap hook on the ropes. The Pirates flag that Tom owns has the D-rings.

The only thing I can't reconcile is the purple and white color of my San Francisco flag...every other example I have seen (for other teams) is done in a color scheme that "makes sense." In the B&W pic posted earlier, it's impossible to know the colors. I would love to know who produced thes flags in the past and if the same company is providing them today. I have a bunch of Giants flags from the Bay Area and they are stamped "Paramount Flag Co." I'm going to keep digging. At least to me, this is as Arte Johnson would say on Laugh In...."Vedy interesting!"

P.S. I'm really not liking the NL West standings in the picture below!!

[ooo-ribay]

Here's a great old picture, pre 1958, but, of course, I can't make out a damned thing!

[andypcl]

Hi Rob, I thought I'd chime in with my flag. I think I've shown you this but it's 7 feet long from tip to tip and it seems like a heavier material than the others pictured. It's actually pretty heavy duty material. I've also wondered about it's origin.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by andypcl

Hi Rob, I thought I'd chime in with my flag. I think I've shown you this but it's 7 feet long from tip to tip and it seems like a heavier material than the others pictured. It's actually pretty heavy duty material. I've also wondered about it's origin.

Ooooooooo! Way cool! But due to the size, material and place of manufacture, I'd have to say it's not a Wrigley flag. One thing that seems pretty consistent about the Wrigley flags is their 70" length.

[andypcl]

Yeah, it's been a mystery to me as to where this one may have flown. I'd like to think it was at Candlestick. Too bad it doesn't say "1962 N.L. Champs" or "Welcome Giants"

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Recently, was more than one flag used in a year or was it typical for a flag to be there the entire year? I ask because I purchased the Pirates flag from 2013, which is the year the Pirates finally made the playoffs after 1,324,659,045,777,319,056,785,328 years and they clinched at Wrigley. It would be neat to know that mine was 100% the flag that flew over the scoreboard that day.

Tom C

They do typically use more than one flag a year as the nylon rips easily in the wind that whips off of Lake Michigan at Wrigley Field.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Awesome information, Andrew! It could be they were still using the city names when you worked at Wrigley in the 1980's. That is consistent with what Mike says. I know that these days, they are using team names in team colors on the "yardarms."

Mike mentioned the difference between grommets and D-rings but, with all due respect, I'm not sure that would be an identifying location characteristic. Either one will work with a snap hook on the ropes. The Pirates flag that Tom owns has the D-rings.

The only thing I can't reconcile is the purple and white color of my San Francisco flag...every other example I have seen (for other teams) is done in a color scheme that "makes sense." In the B&W pic posted earlier, it's impossible to know the colors. I would love to know who produced thes flags in the past and if the same company is providing them today. I have a bunch of Giants flags from the Bay Area and they are stamped "Paramount Flag Co." I'm going to keep digging. At least to me, this is as Arte Johnson would say on Laugh In...."Vedy interesting!"

P.S. I'm really not liking the NL West standings in the picture below!!

Just a thought but could sun fade have caused the change in the color of the pennant?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by whitehse

Just a thought but could sun fade have caused the change in the color of the pennant?

I doubt it. I have a buddy with two of nearly the exact same bluish/purplish San Francisco flags...