Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs

bond73 · #1 05-10-2009, 09:45 AM

(Please excuse of my bad English, if u don't understand what I am trying to say please let me know and I will edit them in a way that everyone would understand. Please bare with me)

Sorry for responding to the mess that I made so late. If you have no clue of what's going on, please read this post first. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112134 I am now stepping out from the shallow to say thank you and apologize to everyone. This is Patrick Chan and the owner of t206museum.

First of all, I would like to apologize to the owner+family member(s) of the Hart card. Then, I would like to thank you Jim for winning the Revelle from REA and everyone who have spent their valuable time uncovered the mess and mistake that I made. I have to admit the creation of those Old Mill black overprint backs was a serious mistake and I fully regretted. I am going to uncover the details and hoping I would not cause further damage to the hobby that we all love. Most of all, I am asking forgiveness of the stupid act that I made in the past. I can't change the past but I hope by telling the trust can comfort everyone and answer all those questions that u might have in your mind.

Why did I make those black overprints?
I created those black overprint backs just for my own enjoyment and showmanship and not for money.

How many out there?
I have only created four of those black overprint backs: 1, Revelle (it was on REA), 2, Hart (got traded out), 3, Lipe (never left my possession) and 4, Greminger (never left my possession).

Why did I encapsulate them?
There was a time many collectors bitching about PSA didn't know anything about vintage cards so I decided to submit my creations to PSA and tested how much they know about those overprints and turned out they really didn't know anything about them and that's how they got encapsulated. Such test also did it on SGC and the outcome turned out to be the same.

What happen to the Hart?
The Hart was the only one (other than Revelle) left my possession after being graded by PSA. About 7 yrs ago, my desperation on collecting t206s completely covered my sane and mind and traded out the Hart for some t206 oddities that I had never seen before. This Hart later got changed hand to another collector which was the current owner of the card (there were only two collectors have ever owned this Hart).

What happen to the Lipe?
The Lipe had never left my possession after being graded by PSA. It was on eBay solely for showmanship and have received a lot of cash offer and all got turned down.

Why did I post the Greminger on t206museum and make it available for sale?
First of all, this Greminger had never left my possession after being graded by PSA. Again, I created this double overprint backs only for my enjoyment and showmanship. Showing it on t206museum was to get more publicity of the website. I have no intention selling the Greminger that's why I asked for a ridiculous price knowing no one would willing to pay for. For those of you who have made offer(s) to the Greminger, you should know I was being extremely difficult selling the card.

Why did I consign the Revelle to REA?
First of all, the Revelle was the only other one that left my possession after being graded by SGC. The reason I consigned it to REA was to make their 2009 auction more "completed" after knowing they would have all t206 "Big 4" available in the same auction (which is something never happened before). It was an extremely stupid mistake on my side since my Revelle is not real and how can my card make their auction more "completed".

Where are those cards now?
I do NOT own any of them anymore and they are now under the possession of the appropriate authorities. They will eventually be destroyed.

Who are the victim?
Generally speaking, there's only one collector+his family member(s) got hurt in this mess (at least financially). He is the one who own the Hart. However, such collector has been completely compensated and completely satisfied with the resolution. If you wonder how many other collectors out there got "scammed" by me or how much money I have made in all these. The answer is ZERO. If you have ever scam by me or you think I have ever take your money in a foul play or even take advantage of you in any deals, please feel free to speak up then I can prove myself clean.

Why did I create t206museum?
I created t206museum.com about 10 yrs ago. The site is solely for information sharing and education. There is no one else in the hobby willing to spend so many time creating a free informative website on one topic. I can guaranteed 99% of the info on my site are real and can refer to multiple sources to backup the information. The 1% of the info that was wrong was the OM black overprint backs and their references. I have no intention of using it as a vehicle to cheat people and those OM black overprint backs were solely for showmanship.

What other information on the site are incorrect?
Besides the references of the OM black overprint backs, all other information are correct and based on the best of my knowledge.

What about those unopened tobacco packs?
I can guaranteed all of those Piedmont packs and Drum pouch have never been tampered with. The Piedmont 10 cigs pack can trace down to Mastro auction. The Piedmont 12 cigs pack was one of two packs that I bought from the same source and I did pulled a t206 card from one of them and the other pack remains untouched and available for sale. Since I pulled a t206 from one of them and have reason to believe the other pack would be the same that's why I offer guarantee and full refund on the other Piedmont 12 cigs pack but not the Piedmont 10 cigs pack since I am selling the 10 cigs pack according to Mastro auction description and based on what I learnt about those packs in the past decade. I know many collectors are saying the tax stamp on those packs are not right or they were made in later year etc, I am not sure of all that but I have personally pulled t206 and have proof t206s pulled out from both Piedmont 10 cigs and 12 cigs pack. The graded Drum pouch was sold in a lot less than my asking price early this year you can now find it on eBay. The pack can trace down to last year's CCCP show.

Why did I remain anonymous since the beginning?
Back then, eBay wasn't as secure as of now, collectors can easily found out who was bidding what and what are their interests. eBay WAS really a fun and cheap place to obtain rare materials or t206 oddities that other collectors might not aware of and in a very cheap price especially. However, a few collectors noticed my interest on t206 oddities and would just blindly followed whatever I bidded on and I ended up paying more than what I would if I used another identity to bid on the very same auction. That's the time I realized remaining anonymous on the Internet could saved me a lot of money and troubles. Another reason was I created t206museum to share information on t206s and try to educate collectors. I have been trying to gather as much t206 information as I can and put them all in one place. I know there are many collectors know t206s more than me but they never shared or willing to share what they know. I created t206museum to share free information but I received criticism of my poor English (I know it is bad and u don't need to remind me) and using other people's articles on my site. I tried to give back credits to the original arthurs if I can find them. I also did try to paraphrase some of the information but ended up still read similar to the original. I am not charging money to use my site and a lot of collectors do find it informative but why do I still need to take those unnecessary criticism for not using perfect English or not having current info on my site. I don't update the site all the time and it is not my full time job neither. I do received correction or update from collectors once a while but I have never received multiple emails (as he claims) from the same collector asking me to correct information which I intentionally ignored or refused to do. Yes, it took me some time to update the site (you don't expect me to update the site 5 mins after u emailed me, do u?). I could be forgetful and didn't give u an update after I made the change but I did eventually corrected the info. Did you go back to the site and check?? Do you guys see my frustration? That's why I prefer to remain anonymous and rather not taking any credits for making the site. Again, I have NO intention to hide my identity for so long and hoping one day I can use my site as a tool to scam collectors. I just do not want to take unnecessary criticism and that's why I shutted down the message board since I don't want to spend 24 hrs monitor the board and scrubbing out bad messages. (I really don't know how Leon can maintain Net54 forums so clean, nice job Leon!!)

...to be continued...

bond73 · #2 05-10-2009, 09:46 AM

Why did I come out and speak for the mistake now?
I come out to speak now just because I want to SAVE your t206 collections/investments and want to stop further damaging the hobby. After reading most of those posts on this forum regards to t206museum, I can feel the direction going to the wrong way. Some collectors starting to feel all of those player image overprints, ghost image, test strips that shown on t206museum were all bogus. I can swear to God I have only made four OM black overprint backs and that's it PERIOD. All those overprints with player's image or tobacco brand on the front or back are real and they were true printer's scrap from a hundred year ago. Collectors have reasons not to buy any printer's scrap from my collection but if this misconception keeps on spreading to the wrong directions then I believe the t206 oddities market would crashed. This is completely unfair to collectors who love and already own those t206 oddities in their collection (are you listening Dan?). Again, all those cards (except OM black overprint) that you read on t206museum are real, they can be traced down to eBay or Mastro auctions.

Why did I post in this forum as "bond73"?
Again, I don't want to use my real name to promote t206museum. That's why I used "Scott Bob" as an alias to post. I don't want u guys miss out any new info on t206museum. Regards to the last post by "Scott Bob" of "So there are no real t206 overprints, ghost images, miscuts exist? I guess that guy has a printing factory in his basement or something." I was just trying to use a sense of humor hoping someone would step up and say "No, there are real overprints out there but just not those OM black overprints" after I start seeing the whole overprint topic heading to the wrong direction. However, you guys saw my previous post as a remorseful post, anyways, you guys missed my intention and hope you understand now.

Will t206museum go online again?
For the time being, it will remain unavailable since I have to scrub out the 1% incorrect information about the OM black overprint and review the rest of the 99% information making sure they are current, accurate and reflect new information from new discovery etc. I hope the future t206museum can continue serving and educate collectors on t206s in the future. I have helped hundreds of people on t206 questions in the past and hoping to continuously serve collectors again in the future. (By the way, I really need someone to proofreading my crappy English, any volunteer?)

To start out from stop further hurting our beloved hobby and continue doing good thing for the community. I will donate $206 next month to any charity or foundation of board member's choice. It will be donated under the name of Net54baseball Forums.

Thank you for Robert Lifson encourages me to speak up. I am asking forgiveness from all of you. I am deeply sorry and regret of the stupid act that I have done in the past. I can't change the past but I hope I can use my extensive knowledge on t206s to educate more people in the future and make them love this hobby and make the collecting world a better place.

If anyone has further questions, let me know and I will try to answer it.

And now, you guys can continue criticize my stupid act and start making fun of my Inglsih.

Happy Mother's Day!!

Regards,
Patrick Chan, owner of t206museum.com

19cbb · #3 05-10-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

I will donate $206 next month to any charity or foundation of board member's choice. It will be donated under the name of Net54baseball Forums

I don't see the need of using the 'Net54baseball Forums' name...

Peter_Spaeth · #4 05-10-2009, 09:59 AM

"Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive."

barrysloate · #5 05-10-2009, 10:00 AM

Well, it seems like a sincere apology but no question it was a really stupid, and illegal, thing to do.

May I ask what you used to print those overprint lines? What kind of equipment do you have?

Peter_Spaeth · #6 05-10-2009, 10:17 AM

"Why did I consign the Revelle to REA?
First of all, the Revelle was the only other one that left my possession after being graded by SGC. The reason I consigned it to REA was to make their 2009 auction more "completed" after knowing they would have all t206 "Big 4" available in the same auction (which is something never happened before)."

A truly impressive spin.

slidekellyslide · #7 05-10-2009, 10:28 AM

Can we assume that you are the only person behind T206museum.com?

nolemmings · #8 05-10-2009, 10:26 AM

while contrition is a good thing, it's a fair question to ask whether you're sorry for what you did or just sorry that you got caught. There is other conduct that you have not explained--how you continued to prop up these fake cards for years, continued to perpetuate their existence and made several false and misleading posts in this forum in attempts to legitimize t206museum. Also, as has been suggested, the creation of these fakes required some extensive planning and rather careful workmanship--it can't be chalked up to a whim (times 4).

Wite3 · #9 05-10-2009, 10:32 AM

I am sorry, I do not buy it...you can apologize all you want and insist on not wanting to defraud anyone or make money but you did and it was most likely illegal...

It just sounds like you are trying to get sympathy for your deceit. I guess I am just less forgiving. These cards have been discussed many times before and you could have come on this board or your own site and said you made them. Years ago!! You didn't...you kept trying to sell them and finally consigned one to a major auction.

Good luck with the Feds!

barrysloate · #10 05-10-2009, 10:34 AM

Here's what really scares me about this whole mess:

I've always wondered if the technology to counterfeit a tobacco era card was possible; could one find paper, ink, and printing plates, for example, to reproduce a T206 and get it past a grader? And the answer was always that it would be impossible to do as it would be readily detected.

Now, with this overprint back getting holdered, as well as a couple of E94 overprints being encapsulated, the wall has been broken. What's stopping someone from creating nearly foolproof Old Puts, or taking a blank backed card such as M101-4/5, and creating a new back variation that no one has ever seen before? If the technology is good enough and it passes the grading test, then who knows what troubles lie ahead.

This could be one of the biggest dangers the vintage card market has ever faced.