Mathewson pronunciation? (and book recommendation)

[timn1]

After hearing great things about it for years, I've finally gotten around to reading Eric Rolfe Greenberg's novel The Celebrant (which WP Kinsella, author of [Shoeless Joe]/Field of Dreams, calls the best BB novel ever written). I think WPK may be right, it is tremendous. The characters are really well drawn, and the baseball action done well. Highest recommendation!

Mathewson is central to the book, and one moment in which a character calls him "Matson" got me wondering whether his name might have been pronounced "Matheson" at the time.

This infoplease site gives both pronunciations:
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0832207.html

I also found this thread from 2011:
http://www.net54baseball.com/archive...?t-137301.html

"Matheson" makes sense to me. Should he join the list of recently revised (or at least proposed) names? "Nap Lajoway," "Johnny Ee-vers," "KyeKye Cuyler," "Earle Coombs," "Dan Broothers"... am I forgetting anyone?

[Bugsy]

add Ha-nus Wagner, not Hoe-nus.

[terjung]

Ed See-cot (Cicotte)

[bn2cardz]

It has happened several times growing up that I would call a player by a pronunciation until I finally would see a televised game of that player and realize I had been saying it wrong all that time.

It would be nice if the cards had the pronunciation on the back of the cards for some of these newer players.

Maybe someone can make a pronunciation set for the vintage players.

[T206Collector]

Most of these debates can be decided when listening to the Glory of their Times CD...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Glory-Thei...their+times+cd

...and the 1939 Hall of Fame Game and Inductions CD...

http://www.amazon.com/1939-Baseball-...+centennial+cd


I believe it is LA-zha-way ...and MATH-eh-son....

[packs]

I remember when I was younger and just getting into cards I would ask dealers at shows if they had cards of Nap Lajoy. It would be a while until I found out it was La-Joo-Way.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by packs

I remember when I was younger and just getting into cards I would ask dealers at shows if they had cards of Nap Lajoy. It would be a while until I found out it was La-Joo-Way.

Ditto... I probably had never heard it pronounced LaJooWay until listening to Glory of their times.

I believe Sam Crawford also pronounced Eve-ers which I had never heard.


edit to add:

Originally Posted by timn1

"Matheson" makes sense to me. Should he join the list of recently revised (or at least proposed) names? "Nap Lajoway," "Johnny Ee-vers," "KyeKye Cuyler," "Earle Coombs," "Dan Broothers"... am I forgetting anyone?

Sorry Tim, I went back and re-read your post....You beat me to Ee-vers !


Loved the Celebrant. Read it on rec from this site (FrankW I think). It really lit a fire under me to go for the t206-518 set

[packs]

There was a while where I was pronouncing Schoendienst like I was saying Shown-a-dentist.

[ElCabron]

Alejandro Pom-pay. (Pompez)

-Ryan

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I believe Eddie Frierson who has made a life study of Christy for his one man play told a SABR Deadball gathering that it is Math-U-son?

At some of these gatherings we have often gone over player names, I do know Eve-ers is correct. One SABR member called every Lajoie in New England and came up with a variety of choices?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by timn1

After hearing great things about it for years, I've finally gotten around to reading Eric Rolfe Greenberg's novel The Celebrant (which WP Kinsella, author of [Shoeless Joe]/Field of Dreams, calls the best BB novel ever written). I think WPK may be right, it is tremendous. The characters are really well drawn, and the baseball action done well. Highest recommendation!

Mathewson is central to the book, and one moment in which a character calls him "Matson" got me wondering whether his name might have been pronounced "Matheson" at the time.

This infoplease site gives both pronunciations:
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0832207.html

I also found this thread from 2011:
http://www.net54baseball.com/archive...?t-137301.html

"Matheson" makes sense to me. Should he join the list of recently revised (or at least proposed) names? "Nap Lajoway," "Johnny Ee-vers," "KyeKye Cuyler," "Earle Coombs," "Dan Broothers"... am I forgetting anyone?

In the book, as I recall, the character who pronounces it Matson -- I think it was the narrator's uncle who has a thick accent --knows nothing about baseball and the mispronunciation is a humorous way to convey that.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Most of these debates can be decided when listening to the Glory of their Times CD...

I've noticed different players pronounce players' names differently, even the old guys on this cd who were contemporaries. Makes sense, as we do the same (Gonzaga, etc.), so you can't rely completely on "Glory of Their Times".

I'll re-listen and write down some examples.

[jimross]

Ma-the-wson

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I've noticed different players pronounce players' names differently, even the old guys on this cd who were contemporaries. Makes sense, as we do the same (Gonzaga, etc.), so you can't rely completely on "Glory of Their Times".

I'll re-listen and write down some examples.

I don't remember any inconsistencies in pronunciation, but that doesn't mean there weren't any. Cicotte, maybe? Or was it just that Ritter pronounced it "sa-COTT-tee" and others like Joe Wood called him "SY-cott." Neal and I were struck when doing the set by how many names were different from what we had thought. Just with Washington players, for instance, Joe Cantillon and Clyde Milan. Makes me wonder how many pronunciations are to be found on the raw tapes that would change the common perception?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

...Makes me wonder how many pronunciations are to be found on the raw tapes that would change the common perception?

Sounds like you've got a new project to work on

[bbcard1]

A little off topic, but Kinsella's Box Socials is funny, sweet and an excellent read

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

A little off topic, but Kinsella's Box Socials is funny, sweet and an excellent read

Did you read "Iowa Baseball Confederacy"? I thought it was even better than "Field of Dreams".

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Did you read "Iowa Baseball Confederacy"? I thought it was even better than "Field of Dreams".

+1

I also think the correct pronunciation is Math'-yew-son

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Makes sense, as we do the same (Gonzaga, etc.)

Only folks from outside of Spokane (That's SPO-CAN, not SPO-CAIN, LOL) mispronounce it

Gahn-Za-Guh

Not quite sure how to write out the middle syllable

Tabe

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by tbob

I also think the correct pronunciation is Math'-yew-son

That's how I've always said it.

Tabe

[T206Collector]

La-zha-way was at the 1939 induction, and you can hear him announced and then hear him talk on the Centenial CD i posted above. The announcer also says Math-eh-son, i believe, even though i always say Math-u-son, which is what I call my son of the same name (when I'm not calling him Matty).

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I don't remember any inconsistencies in pronunciation, but that doesn't mean there weren't any. Cicotte, maybe? Or was it just that Ritter pronounced it "sa-COTT-tee" and others like Joe Wood called him "SY-cott."

My parents had friends with the name Cicotte and as I remember it, it was pronounced "Sa COTT Ta"

[z28jd]

I was going to post a reply to something similar with Bill Hedin in the related to pre-war player thread. He basically said people in his family pronounce his last name three different ways. I'm going to a family reunion tonight, where half the people pronounce my last name a different way than I do, and we are all from the same section of the same small state!

Basically, there may not be just one way to properly pronounce a last name. Heck, I know first hand from my mom, who moved down to Florida over 20 years ago, she doesn't even pronounce her name the same. She picked up a southern accent somewhere along the line and can't shake the darn thing, even when she's in Jersey

[Hankphenom]

Just heard back from a friend to whom I recently lent the raw tapes, and who has become more or less obsessed with listening to them. He said:

"Can recall from the tapes 4 pronunciations for Cicotte, 2 for Evers, 2 for Manush, 2 for Wagner's first name, 2 for Donie Bush's first name, 2 for Marquard ... DON'T GET ME STARTED!"

Ha! I did not remember any of this, but wasn't really paying attention to that aspect. Also, that was 15 years and many brain cells ago.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Just heard back from a friend to whom I recently lent the raw tapes, and who has become more or less obsessed with listening to them. He said:

"Can recall from the tapes 4 pronunciations for Cicotte, 2 for Evers, 2 for Manush, 2 for Wagner's first name, 2 for Donie Bush's first name, 2 for Marquard ... DON'T GET ME STARTED!"

Ha! I did not remember any of this, but wasn't really paying attention to that aspect. Also, that was 15 years and many brain cells ago.

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