Does Pre-war mean pre-1939?

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by rats60

The OP says that he was told that cards had to be before 1939.

I'm only trying to point out the the OP quoted the article incorrectly. The author stated that he believed in using Pre-1940, not Pre-1939.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

I'm only trying to point out the the OP quoted the article incorrectly. The author stated that he believed in using Pre-1940, not Pre-1939.

In all seriousness, the US wasn't involved in the war until the end of 1941, long after Play Ball had finished issuing its 1941 set, no? The war is the great dividing line becasue that's when Play Ball got out of the baseball card business.

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by Mark

In all seriousness, the US wasn't involved in the war until the end of 1941, long after Play Ball had finished issuing its 1941 set, no? The war is the great dividing line becasue that's when Play Ball got out of the baseball card business.

I agree the war is a dividing line, so the debate is when you consider that the war started. It was going on before the US got involved. The author uses 1940 as a compromise date. I just don't see that as very controversial. I believe he also collects non-US cards, so he wouldn't only go by the issue dates of US sets as a determiner.

[mr2686]

Just a casual collector here, and I know far less about cards than I do autographs, so if my premise is flawed, please correct me. Anyway, aren't most of the cards/sets we're talking about from American companies? Isn't Baseball an American game? With that in mind, wouldn't it make sense that pre-war means pre American involvement (pre Pearl Harbor)?

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

I agree the war is a dividing line, so the debate is when you consider that the war started. It was going on before the US got involved. The author uses 1940 as a compromise date. I just don't see that as very controversial. I believe he also collects non-US cards, so he wouldn't only go by the issue dates of US sets as a determiner.

the British stopped issuing cigarette cards in 1940. their pre-war cards have a fixed end date. the "pre-war" label will vary from country to country, and so picking 1940 as the cut off date for US cards does not make any sense. Play Ball 1941 is not a wartime card for the US collector.

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by Mark

the British stopped issuing cigarette cards in 1940. their pre-war cards have a fixed end date. the "pre-war" label will vary from country to country, and so picking 1940 as the cut off date for US cards does not make any sense. Play Ball 1941 is not a wartime card for the US collector.

We're just going to keep going in circles. I believe that 1940 is a good compromise date since different countries entered the war at different times.

[Exhibitman]

Pearl Harbor is a clear line for US cards. If America wasn't at war at the time, an American card issue is a pre-war card by definition.

[brianp-beme]

The vast majority of baseball cards were marketed and distributed in the United States (with a nod to Canada), including all of the major ones produced for the national market, such as Goudey, Play Ball and Double Play. This production virtually stopped with Pearl Harbor and the aforementioned paper rationing.

To try to peg an European dateline to a term that involves such an USA-centric activity such as the mass production of baseball cards doesn't seem practical to me. There is no need to change the informally acknowledged and traditional application of the term PreWW2 from cards produced 1941 and before.

It just makes dang ethnocentric sense!

Brian

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

I agree the war is a dividing line, so the debate is when you consider that the war started. It was going on before the US got involved. The author uses 1940 as a compromise date. I just don't see that as very controversial. I believe he also collects non-US cards, so he wouldn't only go by the issue dates of US sets as a determiner.

Long before the two main allied powers entered the war?He is not including 1940 sets is he? Then he is using no compromise date. He is using the British date, when the Russian date would be almost 2 years later and the American date would be more than 2 years later.

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by rats60

Long before the two main allied powers entered the war?He is not including 1940 sets is he? Then he is using no compromise date. He is using the British date, when the Russian date would be almost 2 years later and the American date would be more than 2 years later.

The compromise is between 1939 and 1941. I just don't see how this is so controversial and why people are so upset that one person's opinion is that 1940 is a good dividing line to make things simple.

[DHogan]

I've always considered prewar to mean anything before the US entered in the war. I have a few non-sports cards from the War Gum. From Gum Inc. The copyright says 1942. What era would these be considered ?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

The compromise is between 1939 and 1941. I just don't see how this is so controversial and why people are so upset that one person's opinion is that 1940 is a good dividing line to make things simple.

How about when Great Britain declared war on Japan? I am sorry, I don't see what the compromise is. It is we should go with when Great Britain declared war on Germany and ignore their interactions with Italy and Japan and completely ignore Russia and USA. How is that any compromise? The war didn't fully begin until 1941.

[Rich Falvo]

Originally Posted by rats60

How about when Great Britain declared war on Japan? I am sorry, I don't see what the compromise is. It is we should go with when Great Britain declared war on Germany and ignore their interactions with Italy and Japan and completely ignore Russia and USA. How is that any compromise? The war didn't fully begin until 1941.

Do you think that maybe you are overthinking this a little? One person's opinion is that pre-war cards are 1940 and earlier. You disagree. I'm out of this debate.

[GasHouseGang]

Well, the name of this forum is "WWII & Older", not "prewar". If you say postwar is after 1945, and prewar is before 1939, you're leaving a hole of six years where cards wouldn't be included in either group. I think WWII & Older is a better definition of what is really intended.