What happened to T3's? - hijacked

[rainier2004]

I have never owned a T3 but have always thought they were possibly the most aesthetically appealing issue and always stopped stared at them at the national. Eventually I would like to own a couple and it seems like the prices have dropped drastically. Why has the price of this set, full of beautiful cards and stars seem to drop so drastically? Have prices just returned to pre-spike level? I seem to remember for awhile about 10 years ago every time I saw a T3 the price had risen. Maybe my memeory just sucks...

[Griffins]

I know a few years ago there was some pretty intense competition between a few people building the set. A guy in Maryland, another in NYC, both paying and trading very generously for cards they needed. As we've seen in other sets, the market isn't that deep, and once their sets were completed competition (or lack thereof) worked to drop the market price.

[rainier2004]

Are todays market prices in-line with the previous prices prior to those set builders enetering the market? I guess I thought more folks were involved in T3s than that.

[CW]

I think the hobby also saw a slight pricing spike when these cards first started to be graded by PSA and, later on, SGC. For years, those two graders didn't slab T3's, and once they started grading these gems (5 to 7 years ago?) the prices seemed to take off. This, of course, also ties into the registry, which likely ties into the competition that Anthony already mentioned.

[Jerry G]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

I have never owned a T3 but have always thought they were possibly the most aesthetically appealing issue and always stopped stared at them at the national. Eventually I would like to own a couple and it seems like the prices have dropped drastically. Why has the price of this set, full of beautiful cards and stars seem to drop so drastically? Have prices just returned to pre-spike level? I seem to remember for awhile about 10 years ago every time I saw a T3 the price had risen. Maybe my memeory just sucks...

Nothing wrong with your memory. There is a similar discussion including the boxing Turkey Reds over on the Boxing Forum.

[Republicaninmass]

I think they are a great buy at these prices, they a visually appealing and I would think the prices will start climbing. Also, it appears there have been quite a few for sale recently

[T3s]

Hello,

Thought I'd chime in, but essentially just to agree with the points made in each of the previous comments on this thread.

I can remember 10 years or so ago, buying a stunning T3 common on Ebay with a BIN of $300. At the time, I couldn't believe I was paying so much for a T3 - easily the most I'd ever paid for a common - and hoping I wouldn't regret it. Sometime around 2005, when PSA started grading them, I sent the card in and it received a 6. I ended up trading that card for a pile of other T3's (actually wish I had it back, but it was an offer I couldn't refuse), that were probably worth about $3500. That was an insane deal, and I certainly couldn't get that much today, but the right buyer would still go $1500+ for that card.

I remember being angry and a bit confused as Dave Levin paid what seemed like way too much for some nice commons on Ebay one day. Only to discover that he was being shrewd and must have known that PSA was beginning to grade them and prices would most likely rise. Very, very shortly thereafter, the big slabs appeared. Well played, Dave.

So in short, the T3 market has absolutely come back down to earth, relative to the start of their debut with PSA. However, when compared to the late 90's and early 2000's, they're still way ahead. Further, most PSA-3 thru PSA-5 examples right now are a great deal - in my opinion. Over the years, I've loosely tracked the PSA pop report and it's easy to see that submissions have slowed to a crawl. Certainly expensive to submit, but not that many more out there to be submitted.

I hope you enjoy them. They are beautiful cards.

Happy Collecting,
Craig

[BCauley]

Looks like I might need to pick up my token T3 card for the collection soon then, Jake Stahl. Great looking cards and like the first poster, I always make sure to stop and check them out when I see them.

[mintacular]

I think they suffer from folks like me who do not view them as "cards" due to their enormous size. Thus they are in the blindspot of cardaholics who might appreciate their aesthetic qualities but view them more as a baseball "antiques". Also, storage issues, easier to hold a few boxes of cards/binders than picture-frame sized stuff.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by mintacular

Also, storage issues, easier to hold a few boxes of cards/binders than picture-frame sized stuff.

Nothing like two giant rubbermaid containers filled with t3's!

[rainier2004]

Craig: Thanks for that detailed timeline. Even though I stopped to stare at the T3's, I never cared if they were slabbed or not...Im definitely hooked on the crack so that observation, generally like many others, flew right by me.

I appreciate all the other answers and there seems to be different energy with the T3 folks that Ive encountered on the board and at nationals. I use to not consider them a card but definitely do now. I would personally like to get the Tigers Team one day of T3's, but I tend to build sets and fear it would become an obsession similar to CJs for me now and start to push for a set...and sometimes your wallet struggles to keep up with obsessions.

[BleedinBlue]

I am very new to the T3 game but already know where it is going based on my history with obsession. In the last few months I cleared the 500 level in my pursuit of a T206 set and with the opportunities to add new cards to my collection quickly diminishing I decided to work on a T-card type set. I had picked up a lot of the more common T-type cards but an affordable T3 had eluded me until late last month. A fellow board member sold me a PSA 2 Bill Bergen card which I viewed as a great addition to my Brooklyn collection and at the same time filled a hole in my type set.

It's been a long time since I opened a package and was in awe. I've had the card for a couple of weeks now and can't force myself to put it away. I really enjoy looking at the card. The aesthetics are unmatched in an other issue I've found. The next logical step for me is to pick up the other Brooklyn players. After that I'm sure I'll go for a set of the Baseball Players. Then I'll want a Boxing Type card. Then the rest of the T9's will get onto my list. Cost and budget are going to be butting heads for a while I'm sure.

[kcohen]

In one sense, at least for me, it's ironic that the advent of slabbing T3s fueled the price rise. IMO, it's one issue, more than most others, whose aesthetics are destroyed by slabbing. So much nicer in their natural state.

Note: This is not meant to be an anti-grading rant, simply an opinion on the aesthetics.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by kcohen

IMO, it's one issue, more than most others, whose aesthetics are destroyed by slabbing. So much nicer in their natural state.

Note: This is not meant to be an anti-grading rant, simply an opinion on the aesthetics.

Couldn't agree more...I hate slabs and if I were to purchase a T3 I would be slab busting as always. The Cobb would make me think about it for awhile first but eventually Id get into the Jameson and Id get slab crackin...For a guy that just won a ton of CJs Im doing a lot of thinking about T3's.

[jbbama]

I doubt i will ever own one, however, the T3 Cobb has to be one of the most beautiful cards i have ever seen. Easily one of the most eye appealing sets ever produced.

[dstraate]

Okay I've had it, I want to see some. If this is a thread hijack, just disregard, but I just haven't seen many.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by dstraate

Okay I've had it, I want to see some. If this is a thread hijack, just disregard, but I just haven't seen many.

Hi-Jack away - Here's one from Memory Lane's webstore...

[Bosox Blair]

FYI, I have an unslabbed T3 McConnell for sale/trade on the BST, here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=mcconnell

Also, I picked up a gorgeous Griffith T3 from the BST here a few months back - now in a SGC 60 holder and not for sale...a keeper...here is the pre-slab scan:

[Bosox Blair]

As to the original post, I agree and have noted the same thing. In my mind, the T3s are one of the sets that took the worst beating in the downturn from late 2008-2011.

I was truly shocked by some of the low prices at auction in that timeframe...even on high grade cards for that set, like 5-6 grades.

Not sure if they have bounced back recently, but it seems to me that a few sets are on the rebound in the last few months.

Cheers,
Blair

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by kcohen

In one sense, at least for me, it's ironic that the advent of slabbing T3s fueled the price rise. IMO, it's one issue, more than most others, whose aesthetics are destroyed by slabbing. So much nicer in their natural state.

Note: This is not meant to be an anti-grading rant, simply an opinion on the aesthetics.

Really with you here, Ken. I've gotten used to seeing most cards in their slabs (didn't say I like it), but these beauties really need to be on their own. Someday maybe they will come up with a method of authentication (and grading, if they must) without entombing, so we can have the best of both worlds.

[sycks22]

I'll chuck up a T3. Love the design.

[CW]

[byrone]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Hi-Jack away - Here's one from Memory Lane's webstore...

I always liked the Cobb card too, but after carefully looking at the image, doesn't his head look a little disproportionate (too small compared to his torso)?

[Jay Wolt]

The soft economy has made many issues a bargain compared to what they were a few years ago.

I never get tired of viewing T3's, keep em comin'

[Jerry G]

Here is my first T3.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by byrone

I always liked the Cobb card too, but after carefully looking at the image, doesn't his head look a little disproportionate (too small compared to his torso)?

Yeah, it kinda does. Subconsciously I think I had thought that before...

I was going to compliment the T3s, but I honestly have never seen one I didnt like so kudos to all here. These really are nice. Alright, Im hijacking my own thread...

Is the Cobb the priciest card out there? The set is 104 bb players, I wouldnt go after the others, but are there a couple that you just dont find? CJ's dominate my world, but T3s are a display with each and every card. If you keep them slabbed you can turn them into wallpaper for the man cave as well.

It seems as if I allow pinholes most of the cards are completely findable. Any guesstimates on how much a low-grade presentable set (a bunch of 1's with pinholes and minor back damage and general wear ok) would run a guy?

[dog*dirt]

I love the T3 and T9 cards and I really do not mind pinholes or writing on the back since they display so nice.

[jcmtiger]

Steven, you should collect the Detroit set. I did and am very happy. And one of my Tigers is a T3 proof. I had them framed years ago before slabbing was in vogue.

Joe

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Steven, you should collect the Detroit set. I did and am very happy. And one of my Tigers is a T3 proof. I had them framed years ago before slabbing was in vogue.

Joe

Got a pic?

[FrankWakefield]

Steven, there are a few T3's that would not be readily "completely findable."

When these cards were distributed, folks sent in coupons and requested a card. The thinking is that there were more star players distributed than regular players. Still, the stars now command good prices. Cobb, as you mentioned. The Mathewson card is a piece of art, I don't have one, but someone should post one in this thread. The Johnson card gets a good price, and Cy Young does a bit. Young cards usually sell for a bit less than those other 3, I think that's because there are many more Young cards out there. Don't rely on pop reports on these, some of the HOFers have been resubmitted, and they're also more likely to be graded than the card of a regular player. The Rhoades card is less plentiful than other regular cards, if you're going to try to complete these I suggest getting the first Rhoades you find, because it could be some time before you see another. Once in a while one or two will surface and be for sale. If we all piled all of our T3's on a table, together, and stacked them in piles by player, I think there would be fewer Bob Rhoades cards than any other. The cards from the second series are ever so slightly less plentiful. Same goes again for cards with the Turkey Red ad on the back. The generic cards like "Out at Third" and "A Close Play" are less plentiful, who'd have asked for one of those if they could get a Cobb or Lajoie instead???

We need someone to post the Mathewson card...

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

The Mathewson card is a piece of art, I don't have one, but someone should post one in this thread.

We need someone to post the Mathewson card...

Frank, here ya go.
My old Matty (I miss it)
I bought this ungraded from a guy in the UK on eBay for around $400
Sold it w/ the set, had 115 of the 126 Baseball & Boxer subjects

[zimp]

The year was 1970 and there was a large flea market on the streets of Gettysburg, Pa. We left early Saturday morning around midnight to be there bright and early. The only problem was that it was raining so had you could hardly see. When we got to Gettysburg we found that they canceled the flea market until the next day so it was off to finding antique shops. Riding the old country roads we saw a old greenhouse next to an old farm house advertising antiques. Looking through the windows of the greenhouse you could see T-3's lined all across the top of the walls. We went pounding on the farm house door until someone answered. I asked about the baseball pictures in the greenhouse and the owner said $5.00 apiece. I had about $300. on me. That was a lot for me in those days. I picked out 25 cards and figured I'd better save money for the next day at the flea market. Among the 25 cards was Cobb plus other HOF'ers. Well the next day we go to the flea market and I found one card the whole day. a Old Judge cabinate of Stovey for $1.00 so we head back to the greenhouse to buy the rest of the T-3's. We rode around for hours looking for the place and never was able to find it again. Was I in the Twilight Zone or what. Oh well I was happy with my find but it could have been so much more

[drumback]

These may be PSA 1, but they are good enough for me. I can live with the pinholes. I have no idea why there is an MK qualifier on the Raymond.

[Jay Wolt]

Drumback, those are great looking 1's
The mk qualifier could be on the back of a mark that was erased
look on top of the back.

I've seen several erasures that were given the mk qualifier when I was pursuing the set

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Got a pic?

Won't be able to post pics for a couple of weeks.

Joe

[rainier2004]

Frank - Thanks for the nice summary. I finally stopped being lazy and got out Lipsets encyclopedia.

Joe - Looking forward to those pics.

I gotta say, Id love to make this thing my next "huge" project after the CJs are done, which will still be some time. A Tiger team set, 7 cards I believe, would be much more realistic in the short run. I think those generic cards are actually my favorite and would love to pick one up. I really like the Chance card...thats not Frank? I though I read it here, but cant find it now, that its soemone else on the card. Were the premiums the same size as the non-premium issue?

[drumback]

I am sure that is Frank Chance on the Chance card. You may be thinking of the Frank Baker card, which actually shows Jack Barry.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by drumback

I am sure that is Frank Chance on the Chance card. You may be thinking of the Frank Baker card, which actually shows Jack Barry.

THat was it!

[rdixon1208]

I always thought it would be funny to buy some with pinholes already in them and tack em to the wall in my office.

[martindl]

Strange for me that this thread show up now. I love T3's and bought a few small collections, won some lot auctions, along with some individual cards 6-7 years ago. Got some of them graded about 18 months back and when I got them back looked up some prices. I don't keep up with pricing, or the hobby in general anymore, but was surprised at low prices relative to what I had paid. They weren't any less but they weren't any more either. I'd have thought they'd have gone up some, and the big names had, but overall there wasn't much movement.
Fast forward to this week, when i somehow ended up on eBay looking at completed auctions. It looked to me like the prices were looking a little stronger.
I do think grading has had a negative effect on this issue and its value. Not the fact that the cards themselves are slabbed but more that there is no consistency with the grading. It's all over the place. If your means of assessing value is the grade on the slab, and for a lot of people it is, then you're up the creek.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Got this bad boy about 5 or 6 years ago for $250, never thought I would own one, a true classic:



One more for the quality T3's, prime candidate for pinning on the wall:



Lee

[jmk59]

[2dueces]

Joann, Very nice example!! I think they are the nicest looking cards ever made. JMO

[novakjr]

My lone T3. Joss, looks like sh!t, but got it for around $15, so I can't complain.

[jmk59]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

Joann, Very nice example!! I think they are the nicest looking cards ever made. JMO

Thank you Joe. It's one of my favorites. I posted it for the Detroiter upthread (or the DTW collector, anyways).

J

[Republicaninmass]

ONe of my worst, but a great background. The beginings of a huge NYC infracstructure loom in the bacground beyond the Brooklyn field.

[majordanby]

i got into T3 collecting at a bad time - at its peak in the mid 2000s. ive had to sell quite a few of them off the last two years because of financial hardship - some going for significantly less than what i paid for. i may be wrong, but i dont think T3s will reach quite the high they did back when i first started collecting them. however, i do expect the cards to level off at some point. the only T3s ive been able to sell at equal or higher price were my cobb and young. ive decided to keep a few just because i like them so much. the jordan was my first T3 - it was the one that got me into the set. the image doesnt do the card justice - the color literally leaps out of the card. ive contemplated selling off the lajoie and brown and just keep the jordan since it is truly my two or three favorite cards in my meager collection.

[71buc]

This Clarke is the only T3 in my collection. I agree that the T3s are some of the most attractive cards ever produced. My scanner does a poor job of displaying the vibrancy of it's colors. I purchased this one slabbed and have considered removing it as I think the PSA slab takes away from the aesthetic appeal. I have never understood the grading of these. I have seen others examples in seemingly lesser condition grade higher. However, if this had not graded a 2 I wouldn't have been able to afford it. So as a buyer I definitely benefited from the grade.

[jtschantz]

My favorite trio....I seem to remember the momentum of the cards may have been slowed a little when Mike Wheat produced full sized reproductions for $15

[dstraate]

Wow, they are amazing, It looks like the issue takes on much more background detail than other cards of the era. Then again, I guess they had more space. Thanks for the fix!