Cigarette Boxes

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

This question is for Leon and Jon, or anyone else who has numerous T206/Tobacco card related boxes. If you had to sell your cigarette box collection today, how much money would you want for them? As a group or single boxes. Break it down.

edited to change pack to boxes

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Posted By: scott brockelman

While I can't answer Richard's question, I have a few boxes I would like to know the value of. I know at one time Jon put out a pamphlet on them, I can't find my copy. I have a Mecca and Helmar both with tax stamps of 1910 and inside stamps of 1911. Any idea to value. Also have a Sovereign slide shell.

Scott

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

The reason why I ask this question is because I know Jon & Leon will never sell their boxes. The same with myself. It would take a lot of bad luck, before they would even consider it. The values that Jon put in his book, wouldn't even come close to what Jon would expect for his boxes. My guess would be 5 or 6 figures for all of them, before he would think of selling. I know others that just put these boxes away, and refuse to sell. Am I right Jon?

These boxes are totally irreplaceable. T206 cards can be found easily, except the big ones. Owners of the boxes refuse to sell because they never be able to find them again.

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

Scott:

In Jon's book, prices are for the empty boxes: Helmar-$35. Mecca-$100. Sovereign-$90.

Book was written years ago. Jon also wrote an article in Old Cardboard magazine. Issue #3.
The price for an empty Sovereign box was $150 in this Spring 2005 magazine.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

I'll post pics later, the Helmar is the nicest I have seen, all have the slides as well.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Richard - such a tough question to answer. Obviously some of the packs I own are fairly easy to locate (such as Helmar, Piedmont, SC, etc). Others are tougher to find or near impossible (Broadleaf, Lone Jack, AB, Ramly, etc). In order to maximize value, I certainly would sell them piece by piece but not sure what I would get for them. Never really thought about it to be honest.

Scott - to answer your question, the Sovereign in the best in the group and I would guess that, depending on condition, year, etc, I would probably ask $100-$150 for it. The others are easier to find albeit certainly more desireable with 1910 tax stamps. Mecca I would guess is around $50-$75 and Hlemar less - maybe $25.

On a side note, when I put that guide together, I never intended it to be a price guide as who knows what these things would sell for. I tried to assign some relative values to the packs but certainly the values I did assign are not always a good guage of what the packs would sell for.

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

Jon: If you really really really had to sell them, what would you like to get for them? Do you believe that over the years that fewer boxes are being sold on eBay & elsewhere, making the values increase due to the law of supply & demand on all T206 boxes. The Broadleaf and others that you have could never be replaced, so how much would you expect for that?

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Posted By: leon

Not sure on total value....I would guess somewhere a little north of 10k for mine.....I know I sold a Gypsy Queen pack, in lesser condition than the one I kept, for about $2500.....Packs are more scarce than the cards that came in them, for the most part...

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

A good example is the Broadleaf box. I only know of 2 that exist. They should fetch more than 10k each. Maybe even more.

One day we'll know how many of each box exists, and than values can be determined. In the meantime everyone assumes that they're plentiful, when in fact they're not. Jon told me awhile back that there were only 50 Old Mill boxes in existence. That would mean they're scarcer than T206 Honus Wagner's. Demand is key, and I believe demand has increased big time in the last 5 years thanks to eBay.

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Posted By: leon

I agree with you. I think they are greatly undervalued. I have seen 4-5 Broadleaf packs...still very, very scarce....

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Richard - like Leon said, it's hard to state but some boxes obviously demand much more than others. My Ramly I would expect to go for at least $1000, my Lone Jack maybe the same. The Broadleaf I am unsure of. Also, to echo what Leon has said - I know of 4-5 that are the correct period. I was recently able to acquire a second Broadleaf so I have 2, I know of 1 in a personal collection (but missing the inner slide), and one more that is out there although I am not sure who owns it.

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Posted By: 1880nonsports

it's a hobby like any other - subject to the same whims - desires - fluctuations - and uncertainties as any other. I thought my packs would be saccrosanct - but nothing is forever. I kept some of historical significance - but that too was a crap shoot - as I found them all significant It's a great niche though and I think like any collectible - the scarce packs will appreciate as more people become interested............ I collected the packs long before it was fashionable - - it's getting a bit expensive for the tough ones and frustrating as well - being a completest and having sold my only TTT/Gypsy Queen/Broadleaf packs - I doubt I could replace them anytime soon (TTT may be only example known). At least 10-15 card related brands I've seen or know of in circulation - exist in populations under 10. A few are still unkown to the hobby - especially ones that actually COULD have contained a card. I have a couple of clam shell packs (Murad & Tokio) with strips that say there's a silk novelty inside. The Tokio still retains the original Red Cloud silk. One of my favorite original containers is one Jay Miller showed me of a Yum Yum tin that had a similar strip along the bottom saying something to the effect of cards being packaged inside. Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout. There are tangents one can run with even in cigarette pack collecting. I have a pair of Duke's Mixture packs with cancels just before the ATC merger and just after. It was relatively easy to find the first - not so easy to find the second. GL you'se pack guys. BTW - dat Lone Jack pack a killer. Managed a few unusual LJ items but could never procure the pack.

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Posted By: scott hassel

I started collecting packs just after Henry and have been hoarding them ever since. I think I've got just over 300 pks now. I have always found them more difficult than the cards themselves. They certainly show very well in a display. I think I've contributed to the collections of most of the folks on this board that collect packs. Jon's little booklet is/was a great resource for me as well as picking up the phone and calling Mr.Moses who has taught as much as anyone has about these packs over the years. Leon has done a wonderful job of picking up some of the rare ones even though he started collecting these after some of us that started well before him. The value has not kept up with the baseball cards but have more than kept up with inflation. Most advanced collectors of 19th century baseball cards own packs to go with their collections.

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Posted By: leon

When I took over moderating the forum 2-3 yrs ago I made the top mission statement with these cig packs/boxes/tins in mind.....these are the "related topics" I was referring to. The folks in this thread are some of the most knowledgable pack guys in the hobby. Henry and Scott got me started and, along with the work Jon and Richard have done, have taught me a lot. I know all but Richard personally and knowing these guys is certainly my pleasure. Thanks for chiming in ya'll.....and if ya'll make the National again I look forward to some more hootin' and hollerin'. Take care...

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Posted By: Ted Sherman

I dont want to TIP anyone off, but you look around there is a nice lot of packs in a current auction! looks to be going waay out of my price range, but it was on my watch list ;'(