$202,000 Jeter Card

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

David, it is my understanding that the current, top federal income tax rate is 37% - for an individual taxpayer, this rate applies to taxable income in excess of $510,300: https://www.quickenloans.com/blog/fe...e-tax-brackets So, even with the addition of a state income tax (for those states that have income taxes), very few, if any, folks are going to pay 50%.

Estate tax. I used the word heirs.

Not income tax.

In terms of income tax a guy like Bieber would pay 50% if he lives in CA, NY or any high state income tax state.

[ValKehl]

David, thanks for the clarification.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

David, thanks for the clarification.

Sure thing.

The top estate tax bracket used to be in the 55% range and then with the exemption you would net about 50%. Obviously many have used fancy estate planning techniques and altered this some but the point is the same. If you are mega rich a huge chunk is being confiscated when you die. If Bieber died tomorrow his estate would owe 101.44 million using the 265 estimate. Might as well blow some of the dough on whatever you want. On items like this the higher the price goes the more exciting it becomes so it is a win win. If it goes up in value great. If it goes down no big deal.

[Throttlesteer]

A bit off-topic, but I dont understand people paying hundreds of dollars for no-name mirror blues and golds in this set. You can get PSA 10 mirror golds of top NHL players for $100-200. Yes, smaller market but you could buy every Gretzky mirror gold in PSA 10 and have most of your money left over from that Jeter. Oh well, its not my money.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

A bit off-topic, but I dont understand people paying hundreds of dollars for no-name mirror blues and golds in this set. You can get PSA 10 mirror golds of top NHL players for $100-200. Yes, smaller market but you could buy every Gretzky mirror gold in PSA 10 and have most of your money left over from that Jeter. Oh well, its not my money.

Don't take this as me being snarky, but I don't get how the cost of a Wayne Gretzky card would help out someone who is a Jeter/Yankees collector.

Someone dropping $200K on a single card is probably not looking at how far they can stretch $100-200.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Sure thing.

The top estate tax bracket used to be in the 55% range and then with the exemption you would net about 50%. Obviously many have used fancy estate planning techniques and altered this some but the point is the same. If you are mega rich a huge chunk is being confiscated when you die. If Bieber died tomorrow his estate would owe 101.44 million using the 265 estimate. Might as well blow some of the dough on whatever you want. On items like this the higher the price goes the more exciting it becomes so it is a win win. If it goes up in value great. If it goes down no big deal.

I wonder how it would work out if someone claimed a card sale like this under capital gains.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Holders are not always uniform. I have cards that look short in the holder but are full size.

That's both strange and interesting. Aside from holders for stuff like Bowmans, there shouldn't be much variation of size at all. The molding shrinkage ratio for polycarbonate (I think that's what the slabs are, but haven't verified) is .5-.7% not much at all.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by steve B

I wonder how it would work out if someone claimed a card sale like this under capital gains.

Capital gains tax on collectibles is 28%

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Nunzio11

Jeter will always be a debatable figure from a historical standpoint. Not debating historical significance but I would bet if you asked any Yankee fan born after 1970 who their all time favorite Yankee is, a strong majority of them would say Derek Jeter. Every New Yorker in their 40s grew up with Derek Jeter. 4 championships from 1996-2000 and Jeter was the center of it all. Just given the modern media landscape the Jeter name is probably bigger than any pre war type player to the generic baseball fan. Again not debating baseball statistics but derek Jeter definitely has historical significance. I think we’ll see it again in December when he’s the second unanimous HOFer and in July when Cooperstown has the largest attendance ever, as anticipated. That’s a lot of fans and a lot of money to follow. Jeter, Jordan, Brady different level to the modern investor.

+1

I live in Washington state. When Jeter announced his retirement, I realized I had never seen him live. So I bought tickets in February to his last home series in Seattle versus the Mariners. I'm not even a Yankees fan! I even took my toddler so he could say when he's 65 that he went to a Derek Jeter game (granted he can't remember it). We sat out in the section that is normally "King's Corner" with the Felix Hernandez fans. I'm not lying that I hardly saw a Mariner's jersey in that corner. We were surrounded by people who had New York accents. He is an icon. Biggest player of my generation. I doubt that will be the last Jeter card to hit that number. Mike Trout might be a better player, but unless he gets those WS rings, he won't compete with Jeter for legendary status.

[ValKehl]

Yes, it's hard to get the legendary status Jeter seems to have when you don't get to play for winning teams. In addition to Trout, just ask Teddy Ballgame.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by todeen

+1

I live in Washington state. When Jeter announced his retirement, I realized I had never seen him live. So I bought tickets in February to his last home series in Seattle versus the Mariners. I'm not even a Yankees fan! I even took my toddler so he could say when he's 65 that he went to a Derek Jeter game (granted he can't remember it). We sat out in the section that is normally "King's Corner" with the Felix Hernandez fans. I'm not lying that I hardly saw a Mariner's jersey in that corner. We were surrounded by people who had New York accents. He is an icon. Biggest player of my generation. I doubt that will be the last Jeter card to hit that number. Mike Trout might be a better player, but unless he gets those WS rings, he won't compete with Jeter for legendary status.

I’m a life long Yankee fan, but I honestly have never drunk the kool-aid when it came to Jeter. Granted, he was a great player. However, in my mind, he was never better than the third best player on the Yankees for most of his career. I consider Mariano and Arod to be above him. I also thought that Jeter was somewhat selfish when he refused to move from shortstop when Arod, a better shortstop, came to the Yankees. I think mentioning him in the same breath as Brady and Jordan is absolutely crazy.

[Nunzio11]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I’m a life long Yankee fan, but I honestly have never drunk the kool-aid when it came to Jeter. Granted, he was a great player. However, in my mind, he was never better than the third best player on the Yankees for most of his career. I consider Mariano and Arod to be above him. I also thought that Jeter was somewhat selfish when he refused to move from shortstop when Arod, a better shortstop, came to the Yankees. I think mentioning him in the same breath as Brady and Jordan is absolutely crazy.

Agreed, I could have been more specific. i was speaking strictly from a popularity standpoint, not as status as the greatest in their sport. For many different reasons Jeter’s popularity transcended his sport into the mainstream like Jordan and Brady where the casual or even non fan recognizes then.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The irony is that for the second half of his career Jeter played with a guy who was the far superior baseball player, but the unique circumstances just fueled Jeter's popularity.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The irony is that for the second half of his career Jeter played with a guy who was the far superior baseball player, but the unique circumstances just fueled Jeter's popularity.

Are you referring to the guy that was on steroids his entire career?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Are you referring to the guy that was on steroids his entire career?

A major factor in the Jeter perfect storm, the image (true or not) of the squeaky clean boy next door amid the sea of cheaters.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by todeen

+1

I live in Washington state. When Jeter announced his retirement, I realized I had never seen him live. So I bought tickets in February to his last home series in Seattle versus the Mariners. I'm not even a Yankees fan! I even took my toddler so he could say when he's 65 that he went to a Derek Jeter game (granted he can't remember it). We sat out in the section that is normally "King's Corner" with the Felix Hernandez fans. I'm not lying that I hardly saw a Mariner's jersey in that corner. We were surrounded by people who had New York accents. He is an icon. Biggest player of my generation. I doubt that will be the last Jeter card to hit that number. Mike Trout might be a better player, but unless he gets those WS rings, he won't compete with Jeter for legendary status.

Not to derail, but when I recently heard the Patriots were playing at FedEx Field vs the Redskins I bought tickets for the family and went to watch Brady play since the Redskins are the closest team to us (3 hours). That place was PACKED with Patriots/Brady fans about 70/30. I knew it was probably going to be the last shot I had seeing him play in person and that's how most of the people in our section felt as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Times have changed. I grew up in the DC area and in the 70s and 80s, unless you had connections, Redskins tickets were hard to come by.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Not to derail, but when I recently heard the Patriots were playing at FedEx Field vs the Redskins I bought tickets for the family and went to watch Brady play since the Redskins are the closest team to us (3 hours). That place was PACKED with Patriots/Brady fans about 70/30. I knew it was probably going to be the last shot I had seeing him play in person and that's how most of the people in our section felt as well.

I went to the Rams vs Packers game last season in LA. I'd say at least 70% of the fans were rooting for the Packers, if not much more. It felt like a home game. I thought this was in large part due to packer fans traveling or those like myself who have relocated but have come to find out it's pretty standard for most Ram and Charger games out here.

[JunkyJoe]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I started a thread in May 2018 about the Jeter 93 SP PSA 10 that sold for nearly $100k, and part of what I noted was how I expected more of them to be graded, diluting the PSA 10 population. The population at the time was 22, and it still is. So much for that hypothesis.
...
.......

I agree these high prices are good for the hobby, as silly as they are. There are lots of silly and outrageous things about this hobby, and in instances such as this bonkers Jeter auction, we get the opportunity to have a good laugh now and then. Double benefit as far as I'm concerned.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the Gem Mint card populations grow much from year to year, generally speaking. I'd expect that eventually -- say, 10 or 15 years from now -- there might be a few more that have been graded PSA Gem Mint. Or, maybe a couple dozen more that have been graded BGS 9.5 (and perhaps a couple BGS 10's by then, as well).

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by steve B

I wonder how it would work out if someone claimed a card sale like this under capital gains.

You'd have to run the numbers to see what works best. I believe the capital gains tax for collectibles is 28%. You could set up a card business and file a schedule C, and see whether that works better than using a capital gain when the costs of starting and operating a business are considered. You could also set up an LLC or S corporation, capitalize it with cards, sell the Jeter, and take the section 199A deduction, which deducts the first 20% in pass-through income from the business, then you pay regular income taxes on the rest. There are limits tied to income levels and certain activities, however, so you need a good tax planner to work you through it all.

But don't take my word for it...I don't give tax advice and when I do I usually get it wrong. The only advice I will stand by is "pay the taxes"; if I have a tremendous windfall because I busted a pack of cards 20 years ago, I am going to enjoy it and not get all bunged up about the taxes.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

I think it’s crazy that people treat baseball cards as an investment. I expense every card I buy. When I croak whoever gets them will find out whether they appreciated or depreciated.

, me too.

[Marckus99]

Garbage card for a garbage player.

Wonder how he would have done in San Diego or Kansas City...

- M.

[rjackson44]

i wonder if this was actually paid for ..doubt it

[Leon]

It seems some individuals are making more mint vintage cards daily. And others are getting away with faking certain stamped backs (not referring to Holmes to Homes, they can be printed, I don't care). As for the Jeter card. It's a free America. Bless capitalism.

Originally Posted by JunkyJoe

I agree these high prices are good for the hobby, as silly as they are. There are lots of silly and outrageous things about this hobby, and in instances such as this bonkers Jeter auction, we get the opportunity to have a good laugh now and then. Double benefit as far as I'm concerned.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the Gem Mint card populations grow much from year to year, generally speaking. I'd expect that eventually -- say, 10 or 15 years from now -- there might be a few more that have been graded PSA Gem Mint. Or, maybe a couple dozen more that have been graded BGS 9.5 (and perhaps a couple BGS 10's by then, as well).

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I stand corrected. With the Trump tax cuts they lowered the top rate to 40%.

It should have been clear I was referencing someone like Bieber and with his net worth as a single guy the first 11.4 million would be sheltered and all other assets taxed at 40% on death.

Bieber is married to Hailey Baldwin. How would this affect his estate tax?

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A major factor in the Jeter perfect storm, the image (true or not) of the squeaky clean boy next door amid the sea of cheaters.

I don't know about "squeaky" clean. I recall a time when I was watching a game on TV, and he asserted that a pitched ball had struck him, and was then awarded first base. The slow-mo replay clearly showed that the ball completely missed Jeter. The guys in the booth even praised him for his dishonesty, saying something like, "Well you have to give him credit for doing whatever it takes to get to first base and help his team." Just a cringe-worthy moment for the youth of America everywhere to see this icon of the game cheating for his team.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I don't know about "squeaky" clean. I recall a time when I was watching a game on TV, and he asserted that a pitched ball had struck him, and was then awarded first base. The slow-mo replay clearly showed that the ball completely missed Jeter. The guys in the booth even praised him for his dishonesty, saying something like, "Well you have to give him credit for doing whatever it takes to get to first base and help his team." Just a cringe-worthy moment for the youth of America everywhere to see this icon of the game cheating for his team.

Reminds me of ARod swatting the ball out of the pitcher's hand on a close play at first against the Red Sox and claiming it happened as a result of his natural running motion.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Jdoggs

Bieber is married to Hailey Baldwin. How would this affect his estate tax?

Just double the exemption

[robw1959]

Ha! I remember that one too! Classic.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Reminds me of ARod swatting the ball out of the pitcher's hand on a close play at first against the Red Sox and claiming it happened as a result of his natural running motion.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Reminds me of ARod swatting the ball out of the pitcher's hand on a close play at first against the Red Sox and claiming it happened as a result of his natural running motion.

Didn't he yell out got it or something while running the bases on a pop fly and got the infielder to look away long enough to drop the ball?

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Bill77

Didn't he yell out got it or something while running the bases on a pop fly and got the infielder to look away long enough to drop the ball?

Pretty sure that was a game in Toronto. Definitely happened.


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