Bruce Dorskind .. a question for you

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Posted By: rand

hello bruce(s), i want to start off by saying i really enjoy your posts and after a couple of years on this board i never get tired of reading them. my question to you is quite simple... one of the great things about this hobby i love are the great find stories, how cards come to the market by accident or just found.. can you share some stories when you stumbled across some terrific stuff. thx

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I hope Bruce doesn't object to me posting this, but it's been posted here in the past without problem.

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Posted By: Mark Evans

Pretty neat video. Thanks Dan and Bruce. Mark

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Posted By: Adam

Last month, when I was passing through NYC, Bruce (very, very graciously) gave me a tour of the part of his collection that is currently in his NYC apartment. It is truly stunning.

I had never seen before the You Tube video that is posted above. My only comment is to see, in person, the "Zimmer" game that is on Bruce's home office wall is quite remarkable. I could not keep my eyes off of it. Truly a stunning and unique piece.

Thank you again Bruce.

EDITED TO ADD: If you watch that You Tube video above, Bruce discusses the Zimmer game towards the end.

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Posted By: rand

terrific video and i hope others can add to it, and enjoy this thread

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

oh that's good stuff, on so many levels.

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Posted By: Jason L

and interesting to hear the stories

but Bruce never mentioned his partners. I would think they would be upset.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

They were all speaking in unison; it's more of a collective voice.

(Note to Barry: Consider that semicolon an early birthday present.)

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Posted By: David Atkatz

I especially like the part where they take advantage of the poor, ignorant schoolteacher!

Way to go, guys!

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I think the Bruces can speak for themselves but I dont think they took advantage of the school teacher. I cant imagine a teacher being that naive about a value of a card after 5 years of correspondences asking for it. Back when they bought the card $1400 overnight was a large sum of money for a card and that apparently was the teachers price on it,one that he held out 5 years for. It was also a very nice profit for the teacher considering what he paid the first guy for it. The guy never came to the Dorskind group asking for a value and he had 5 years to find out on his own.

If I paid a dollar for something I didnt know about and someone offered me $1000 for it,I'd be stupid not to look into it first right away. Years ago I bought a t206 card with a miscut and asked the t206museum.com people about it. They said it had very little value over a common but they were also interested in it and offered $35 I believe. I had no interest in selling the card because I collected them but I also knew when they emailed me back with a slightly higher offer(I mean slightly) that there wasnt something right. Less than a week later I got offers of $400,$700,$800 and someone who said they would top any other offer on the short-lived mastronet message board. It didnt take me 5 years to think something was up,it took 2 emails,and it was from someone trying to take advantage of me.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

very cool video, thanks for sharing.

martyOgelvie

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Jodi- I love to use the semicolon.

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Let's see. Bruce bought the Mathewson for 40% more than he perceived its value to be at the time of the purchase. And the person he bought it from acquired the card for $1 from some unsuspecting person at a flea market. Who again David did you say took advantage of who?

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Please, Corey, give us (all of us, not just me) a break.

They're sitting there bragging about how much they took the poor, non-Concord flying, schoolteacher for. "Chuckle, Chuckle."

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

The Last Lecture- Skidmore Style


Much has been written about the physics of hitting a baseball

In his never-ending quest to produce a piece of research that would enable
him to be considered for a full professorship (perhaps when Al Sharpton becomes
President of the University).we assume that Dr. Leftfield, leveraging
his Network 54 sign on (murders row), commissioned a selection
of his Skidmore Groupies to experiment with swinging a bat.

They obviously thought his skull was a ball and they swung away.

Thus the damage to his "mind" and the distaste for all things that are RiGHT
with America.

Of course, physics can unravel a number of mysteries...however, it can not
repair a distorted mind .

Too bad the students didn't swing a little harder. We could have moved Dr. Leftfield
from the classroom to the ancient history books- clearly where he belongs.



Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Joe D.

David,

Unless I am mistaken....
the card was 'worth' around what Bruce paid for it at the time.
Bruce just sold it after it appreciated in value (at a later time).

In other words - it was a great buy.

I am trying to understand how that possibly is taking advantage of someone?

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Posted By: MVSNYC

interesting thread...

all i'll add, is that i've actually flown on the Concorde

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Ooohh, Bruces.

You guys are soooo clever.

(As I told you before (privately, after one of your nasty personal emails), you're just lonely little men, who never became what they really wanted to be, Masters of the Universe, whom you so adore. So you pretend you are Masters of the Collecting Universe, and never let anyone forget what you think you are.

So sad.)

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Posted By: David Atkatz

<<I am trying to understand how that possibly is taking advantage of someone?>>

From the Bruces (and I quote), "I knew it would be worth much more."

Obviously, the teacher, who serendipitously found the card, did not know what he had.

The Bruces did.

(And their trait of constantly hounding their mark until they get what they want is so endearing.

Definitely something to brag about.)

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Posted By: Joe D.

"Obviously, the teacher, who serendipitously found the card did not know what he had.

The Bruces did."


David....

Bruce said he thought it was worth about $1000 (paid $1400).

He said he knew it would be worth more.... that is obviously speculation.



You are really reaching this time.

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Posted By: D. Bergin

Well, judging from the fact a family of 4 took a trip to Europe for $1400 I'm guessing this happened quite a long time ago.

Aggressive buying tendencies aside.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

No, Joe.

Speculation is "I thought it would be worth much more."

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Let's see.

Hounding the guy 'till he finally breaks down.

Offering, not to buy the card, but to pay for his trip to Europe, knowing full well that a teacher would be stretching to take his family to Europe, would have been worrying whether or not he could really afford it, etc. and might very well find the offer to be a relief from that gnawing worry.

Turning around a bit later and selling the card for 48 times what they paid, and, finally

Bragging about their cleverness.

Well done, indeed.

(The interesting "collecting" story would have been the teacher telling how he found the card in a book that he bought.)

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Posted By: Joe D.

"No, Joe.

Speculation is "I thought it would be worth much more."



No David.

As soon as the phrase 'would be' is in there - it is speculation.



Unless you are suggesting that Bruce can see the future with certainty.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

He certainly thought he could. He said he "knew."

"I knew the sun would come up the next day."

Was I speculating?

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

We appreciate the responses to David's inane commentary.

We have a question for the nutty professor

Let's say you are at a flee market (you know the place where nutty professors
shop for their clothes) and you see a baseball card worth $5000.
The antique dealer has a price of $100 on the item

Do you buy it or do you say, Mr. Antique Dealer "I am an expert in
baseball cards and the truth is that this card is worth $5000 retail.
Let me buy it for $4000 so I can make a little profit.

Tell us the truth David (if that is possible)


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: barrysloate

This is among the silliest debates we've had on this board. And given the shrill nature of the political threads, it might be best just to move on.

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

Barry

We agree

Time for Dan to give up

Bruce

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Posted By: Jim VB

Barry,

Do you mean this one?

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Take a good look at the Bruces' little story above, Joe.

They have created a situation they themselves believe is analogous to the "Boston Garter Matty" caper.

Notice the Bruces didn't say "You think perhaps it would be worth $5000, someday," but rather "You know it's worth $5000."

The Bruces are telling us, you see, that they never had any doubt the card would be worth much, much more than they paid the poor, unknowing schnook. (But a good family man.)

(Ya know what, Bruces? When a cashier gives me back too much change, I always return it.)

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- that is the discussion I was referring to.

David- you're really stretching here. Your argument is baseless. At the time Bruce bought the card it was a very fair price. He is only obligated to offer current market value, not what he thinks it may be worth ten years down the road.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Let me just put it this way.

If the Bruces were hounding me to sell them an item I was not expert about, I would be very, very careful.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Read the Bruces own analogy, Barry. They wrote it, not me.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I see Bruce's analogy, and I have to agree with him. I've sold baseball memorabilia over the years that has increased in value tremendously. But I can't call past customers up and ask them to send some more money for that T206 Cobb they bought from me for $100 in 1990. At the time of the transaction it was a fair price.

Likewise, if I'm at a flea market and a dealer offers me a $5000 item for $100, I have no obligation to clue him in. It's every seller's responsibility to do due diligence before putting an item up for sale.

And in the case of the school teacher who sold the Boston Garter, he had a few years to do some research and make an educated decision regarding what to accept for it. And Bruce offered him more than a fair price. Sure, a decade later it looks cheap, but everything increases in value over time.

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Posted By: Jim VB

I've seen Bruce's video before and find it interesting every time.

I see nothing wrong with the transaction in question here. Bruce took a risk. During the five years he tried to buy the card, apparently, no one else was offering the teacher more. He was using his knowledge of the industry to speculate that things would change in the future and the card would increase in value. This is no different than buying a stock, or an antique, or a house.


Now, when Bruce went to sell, if the value had plummeted to $50 and he looked for a government bailout...

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Posted By: Jay

This is the problem with tenure. Instead of doing what the college is paying him to do, David can sit at the computer arguing with Bruce. Bruce is 100% right on this one. While Bruce may have been convinced in his own mind that the card would be worth more in the future, there was no certainty of this. He took a risk when he bought the card. He held it for years and then was sold it for a profit. Good for him, that's called successful investing.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I wish I had read this thread 15 years ago, when I bought my first house.

The owner of the house was asking $150,000 for it.

I knew that someday it would be worth more, so I paid him half a million.

Now I feel like that may have been unnecessary.

Thankfully my kids aren't in college yet, so I hope to do a better job of estimating the future value of their education before I start paying their tuition.

-Al

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Posted By: barrysloate

Al- I actually thought of the same analogy. Things go up, and they go down...it's a risk. And Bruce took a risk when he paid $1400 for something which at the time offered no guarantee of future appreciation.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Heaven knows, Barry, that I've overpaid for cards that have not yet eclipsed what I paid for them. I wish I was sharp enough to know which cards are going to appreciate in value and which aren't. I don't know that having that knowledge would change anything about what I buy, but it sure would be nice to know.

Win some, lose some, I guess. The main point of my sarcasm is that this board has a few members who get beaten up just for being here. Whether or not they ask for it in different ways, I don't think it's always fair. In this case, Bruce didn't even make a post and he got blindsided.

Like everyone else, I would love to get to the day where Bruce isn't deliberately trying to get under people's skin with his "we" and his "whilst." Unlike everyone else, however, if I were in his shoes, I'd be doing the same thing.

-Al

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Posted By: D. Bergin

Damn, I wish I had back that unopened case of 1984 Topps Football I sold for $400 or that stack of Michael Jordan rookies I sold for 20 bucks a pop.

Then again I sure am glad I sold those monster lots of 1987 Topps Mike Greenwell rookie cards I had for a buck a piece while I had the chance. LOL!!!

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Posted By: David Atkatz

From a contemporaneous thread on this very board, directed to the Bruces:

<<Oh and by the way, I have recently picked up a 1914 Terrapin Pennant which I believe is on your so called toughest want list (which is another joke) but I am not going to waste my time as I know you won't pay for it. If you would like a scan and price, email me privately. Oh that's right, I blocked you, we, all yuz, from emailing me because you are so nice and friendly and fair to deal with. Pound Pavement.>>

<< ...he is impossible to get anything out of. Yet he used to email me quartly or monthly asking if I have anything he would be interested in. Well it works both ways, scratch my back and I will scratch yours. I got tired of the emails and not being able to get anything out of him...>>

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Posted By: Steve

Great vid Bruce. Not what I expected though. Although we are succesful in snaring very hot mates... I think sportscard collecting attracts more uglies than any other hobby -not excluding myself, of course.

wondering What percentage of the population is unattractive?



added Smiley

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Posted By: barrysloate

How many people out there are good looking? Have you ever been to the motor vehicles bureau?

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Posted By: TFerg

I thought the video was neat, the Bruces have some nice stuff. Nothing seems to provoke traffic like the Bruces' and the pundit professor.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Thanks for sharing!

Rich

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Posted By: boxingcardman

50% of the population is in the bottom half of the looks category. 90% of the population is worse looking than the top 10%.

None of which applies to Mickey Rivers:

"Pitching is 80% of the game. The other half is hitting and fielding."
-- Mickey Rivers, baseball player


Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: E, Daniel

I can see how David has chosen to interpet Bruce's conquest story. It's viewed through a nose afoul with previous Bruce commentary and views David finds repugnant.

And I can also see how near everyone else has chosen to read the story fresh and free of those odors. Willing in the recent light of good/informative/interesting threads started by Bruce to cut him some slack based on better behaviour. WANTING him to be different and trying to encourage positive change through positive reinforcement.

Now throw this video/story into the middle of months/years of Bruce's more obnoxious rants and opinions reviled by nearly all who have rallied to him in this post, and I have the feeling his story would not be so well recieved.

Ah well, if you know a pig long enough - even you will eventually be tempted to stick lipstick on it .


Daniel

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Posted By: jay wolt

"And Bruce offered him more than a fair price. Sure, a decade later it looks cheap, but everything increases in value over time"

Barry, not everything.
As I have tons of late 1980's baseball cards that have little or no value, 20 years later.

With that said, say the Bruces transaction of $1400 turned out to be way
overpriced and a decade later he sold the Boston Garter for half that amount.
Would he contact the seller and demand some money back?
Though it would have been a gracious gesture for the Bruces to send the buyer
a nice gift or a few $$$ after his windfall sale.
I've done that on a few occasions where I did well on the resale end.
Makes me sleep better at night and ya can't have enough good karma

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Posted By: Ricky Y

I've seen this video before.."we" never get tired of seeing it. Love to see a close up of that Johnson&Johnson advertising sign. I don't think I've ever seen that sign before. Don't see much wrong with the said transaction either...the teacher could have always contacted other collectors and or dealers to gauge its value before parting with it. Pre internet days..we all had to do our own reserach manually.

Ricky Y

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

"Barry

We agree

Time for Dan to give up

Bruce"


WTF?