NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-27-2006, 05:51 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: fkw

Its not easy to fake a real photo postcard. I wonder how the catelog knew for fact they were fakes??? Let alone knew for a fact what years a certain style AZO back is found. The info on how long and what years the AZO backs were used is obviously from used postcards (postmark, and stamp removed to see style stampbox). AZO used the same design for many years. The triangle 2up-2down is know for at least a 20 year window (1910-1930). Every AZO postcard Ive seen has been stamped (not printed) on back, even nonsport subjects.

On top of that, the Ruth AZO cards are fairly scarce, I see the "3 bat" pose like the one at the top of this thread about once a year (and I have an eBay "search" just for them) I would think they would be a bit more common if they were fakes.

BTW there are now 4 different Ruth AZO cards Ive seen (just saw pictures of another example). Ive also seen a Yankee Team Picture AZO postcard (I believe the 1927 Yankees), thats was consistant with the others.

I have owned white backs, and tan back AZO cards and the quality and paper stock were the same. They are sometimes found cut at slightly different sizes though.

Here is a scan of the 3 different type of real photo Ruth cards I have at the moment.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-27-2006, 07:09 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: Clint

FKW, I hope you don't think I was implying that your's or Jamie's Ruth cards were fakes. I wasn't saying that, just giving some info to look for. I know that pre printed postcard backs with undeveloped fronts, in uncut sheets were sold to the photographers to put their photos on. I believe the auctioneer was saying that these fakes were rubber stamped with smearing. I'll try to scan the article.

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-27-2006, 07:19 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: clint

Here's the photo's that go with the article.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-27-2006, 07:49 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: fkw

Clinton, thanks for the info from the catalog. I knew you were just passing along info you found.

I understand the subject matter thing, but I cant see how they can say a "ca.1913-15" and then say if it has a "Post 1917" stampbox its a fake. They say the AZO (2up 2down) is "Post 1917" while other sources say "1910-1930" and "1918-30". Its common practice on postcards and even baseball cards to use photos that are 3,5,10,15+ years older than when the card was made. There is a AZO postcard with the exact same design that shows Ruth in a Boston uniform, obviously an older photo was used than the ca.late 1920s ones on the other (Ruth Yankees) postcards and Yankee Team photo.

The only 2 postcards the catalog pictured that would throw up red flags are the Mantle related ones, but those arent AZO postcards, they are "EKKP".

The "EKPP" (sic) they mention is really "EKKP", and they say its from 1920-30's, but 2 other sources say its was used for 46+ years (1904-50's).

Its all interesting, thanks for the info.

PS I also have the 7-F card but mine is blank back.


Also another info page....
http://reviews.ebay.com/Real-Photo-Postcard-Identification-amp-Dating_W0QQugidZ10000000000005830?ssPageName=BUYGD :CAT:-1:LISTINGS:1>

  #15  
Old 10-27-2006, 08:50 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: Clint

Frank, I agree trying to pinpoint a year on a postcard is tough. Is the postcard paper old stock, was the postcard mailed 5 years after it was bought? I have multiple cards of the same image with different backs.

Thanks, for posting that link, great information! The postcards that I have a definite date for all checked out.

P. S. What does that Ruth with the baby(snookum?) go for? I always thought that was a neat postcard. Never seen one for sale either.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-28-2006, 02:13 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: fkw

The Ruth/Snookums card is a printed picture (not real photo) and more like an Exhibit card but the one I owned had a perforated edge at top.

Adam Warshaw has one in Yellow, I think it is pictured on his Exhibit site. There is also a Green one in an old auction catalog I have. I have only seen these 2 that I can remember. They are fairly rare. When I bought mine I got a great deal on it because it was on eBay in a bad category with a bad picture. I snatched it up knowing what it was right away. Havent seen another on eBay since then.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-28-2006, 09:58 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: jamie

do any of the big grading companies authenticate these things? im still on the fence with this pc and, if i decide to move it, want to make absolutly sure it's legit.

frank- do any of the other ruth azo pc's you've owned have a very glossy surface?

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-28-2006, 07:45 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I wanted to stay out of this discussion until this auction was over because I can't say for sure one way or another whether these cards are period or not, but here is an auction that ended today with two sepia toned Ruth postcards sold by GTP.RO who I consider along with Greenmonster on ebay to be two of the most knowledgeable dealers of baseball postcards.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220039744637&rd=1&rd=1

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-28-2006, 08:50 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: fkw

My AZO cards have all been glossy smooth surfaced real photos.


Those 2 Ruths GTP.RO are new to me, I saw them about 3 days ago. I was the under bidder.

The "Ruth and other guy" are both AZO cards (one is printed very light and almost looks blank backed), and the Mantle is a Kodak card.

The left handed batting one is normal photo but the right handed one seems to be a flipped negative but tough to tell since you cant see the logo on the hat. I compared the background seats and characteristics of the belt and belt loops and think it is a flipped negative (but a different photo, notice hands on the other guy are reversed)

Also wanted to add that the Mantle is a Kodak PC, but that type of stampbox was used for many years, 1950-Now. It could be vintage 1951-55 like the photo looks, but its the same postcard design as the 1977 Jim Rowe cards (page 328 in the 2007 SCD) except all of the Rowe cards Ive seen have had the players name written in pen or pencil on the back of the cards (always seems to be the same handwriting, Jim Rowe??). I have a couple Rowe/Kodak cards not checklisted (D.Dean, Manush), so there are many others, including a couple 1950 era Negro Leaguers.

BTW who is the guy pictured with Ruth????

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-28-2006, 08:57 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,376
Default counterfeit azo postcards?

Posted By: Dan Bretta

It's not a flipped negative...it's actually two different photos. I also believe that it's two different players along with Ruth. Who they are I haven't a clue???

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AZO postcards Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 03-06-2009 07:33 AM
Counterfeit W517s Resurface Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 02-21-2008 05:53 AM
Help! Is this a counterfeit/fake? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 11 11-30-2006 02:01 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:53 PM.


ebay GSB