Anyone lose a package through PSA?

[jezzeaepi]

Hello all,

I have recently gotten back in to Baseball cards again after a long hiatus(13 years; between the ages of 14 and 27), and I decided to send all my best cards in to PSA for grading. They arrived at PSA on the 28th of January. On the 9th of February, I contacted PSA to see why they had not been processed yet. They told me that "it looks like someone signed for your package who does not work for us" and they can't locate my package.... This is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard from a company that I sent such a high value package too(3k+). Has anyone else had a similar experience? Did they ever find your cards? All I have to say is that I my faith in this company is at 0... One of the cards that is "missing" is serial numbered. It is the best card I have ever pulled out of a pack personally, and it is a Michael Jordan Flair Showcase Legacy Collection 97-98 of row 1, set 1, section1, and is numbered 57 of 100. If you ever see this card it has been stolen, thank you.



Peace,
Jesse Rosen

[sbfinley]

First off, sorry about what happened. I have been lucky enough to have never lost a package in transit (knock on wood), but I have some friends who have and it is usually a pain to rectify.

A little more information would help.
Was that all the information PSA supplied you with?
Did you insure the package and DC?
Did PSA admit that package reached their property?
(Not to belittle you but) Did you double check the address you listed?

Sorry about the loss and hopefully everything will land in the right place.

P.S. You might catch some flack by posting anonymously with a first post along these lines. Don't take it personally. Everyone here is great, but certain rules are in place to keep the board from turning into 4chan.

[Leon]

Hi Jesse
Sorry this happened to you. Hopefully PSA will make it right for you or somehow find the package. As the previous poster said, you really need to put your full name by any post that is making those kind of statements. It's perfectly fine to make them.....but full names are required. IN this case the reason is that you could (I am sure you don't) work for a competitors grading company and just be bashing them.....for no real reason. Again, I am sure that didn't happen here but that is the reasoning behind full names in this type of instance. Take care.....

[Griffins]

You should contact Adam Warshaw (Exhibitman) on this board. He's got some experience in this.

[jezzeaepi]

No problem, I added my full name. I am a student at the Univerty of Washington.

The package was fully insured through fedex. PSA admits that it reached their property and that "someone" signed for it, but they have no idea who it is.

As far as the address is concerned, there is a slight issue. I sent it to the EXACT address that was on the back of the submission form, so I did everything right on my end. Unfortunetly it looks like PSA wrote down the wrong address for themselves on their own form... The address on the submission form does NOT list a them as being in "suite 100." It only gives the address for the building. The submission form is not old either, it is dated December 2010. I found this discrepency just yesterday when I looked at their website and noticed that they do indeed have "suite 100" as part of their address online, just not on the hard copy of the submission form that they sent me.
Regardless of the adress not having "suite 100" on it, it still had PSA listed as the recepient, so any fed ex guy should notice this.

Peace,
Jesse Rosen

[DJR]

.

[jezzeaepi]

Fed ex doesn't insure cards? Then why does PSA recomend them? And why did the fedex dealer I used accept the package when I told him it was $3300 of vintage baseball cards? lol this just keeps getting worse =P

[vintagecpa]

What do you consider a "vintage" card? I'm just curious if these were cards from your collection when you were 13 years old?

[jezzeaepi]

The Jordan was the only new card. I still have a ton of cards from when I was 13, but I know they arent worth anything right now. The ones I sent in were from 1955, 1956, and 1961. One of the cards was a 1955 Johnston Cookies Hank Aaron that was in great shape, and I doubt Ill ever be able to replace it if my package doesn't turn up =(

[Peter_Spaeth]

I thought PSA directed that Fed Ex packages be sent to a Fed Ex location to be held for pickup, not directly to their offices. I haven't sent anything there by Fed Ex for a while, but that is always how it worked.

Start by getting from Fed Ex the name of the person who signed.

[jezzeaepi]

Alright, so we have a major breakthrough in the case!

I went down to my shipper, and had him print up the signature confirmation page. The name didnt mean anything to me, but I did notice something else. On the regular tracking page, it doesnt give you the full address of the person who the package was delivered too. It only lists the city and state. On the signature confirmation page it gives you the full address, and the place I sent it too(PSA) was not the place that fedex delivered it too. They actually delivered it to someone 2 blocks away. Go fedex.

Thank you for your help guys. The signature confirmation page was the key to the mystery. My nightmare still isnt over, but let it be said:

PSA does not lose packages. Fedex does.


Peace,
Jesse

[jezzeaepi]

Oh man, I just realized that whoever opened that package has my full contact information as well as my credit card information. And they chose not to contact me. Not a good sign, lol.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Originally Posted by jezzeaepi

PSA does not lose packages. Fedex does.

So does UPS, they just throw boxes where ever they want, no signature, barely look at the door. When they lost 5k of electronics all the idiots could say is 'our driver says he put it at your door, see it says so right here, now go f(*& yourself !' Since it was all part of a bonus from a work event it wasn't insured, good bye digital video camera, digital camera, gps, ect ect ect. Hopefully you don't get the same run around since not insured, best of luck getting your cards back.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHarmonica

So does UPS, they just throw boxes where ever they want, no signature, barely look at the door. When they lost 5k of electronics all the idiots could say is 'our driver says he put it at your door, see it says so right here, now go f(*& yourself !' Since it was all part of a bonus from a work event it wasn't insured, good bye digital video camera, digital camera, gps, ect ect ect. Hopefully you don't get the same run around since not insured, best of luck getting your cards back.

I've never had UPS or FEDEX actually lose a package, but they have had lousy habits of either delivering my packages to the nursing home across the street, my neighbors, or at worst leaving one of those "sorry we missed you" things on my front door while I was home and they didn't even bother ringing the bell or knocking.

[Tsaiko]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I thought PSA directed that Fed Ex packages be sent to a Fed Ex location to be held for pickup, not directly to their offices.

Is that how it works for auction houses too?? When I sent my cards to an auction house, they insisted that I use their FedEx number, because they were insured up the wazoo.

[jezzeaepi]

"I thought PSA directed that Fed Ex packages be sent to a Fed Ex location to be held for pickup, not directly to their offices."

This is true if you send it via Air shipping, but if you send it ground it goes to a different address. Since I live on the west coast, I just sent it ground since it would get there in 3 days anyways.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by jezzeaepi

"I thought PSA directed that Fed Ex packages be sent to a Fed Ex location to be held for pickup, not directly to their offices."

This is true if you send it via Air shipping, but if you send it ground it goes to a different address. Since I live on the west coast, I just sent it ground since it would get there in 3 days anyways.

You should know that FedEx and FedEx Ground are two distinct divisions, albeit, owned by the same company. They have different drivers, and different rules for those drivers. FedEx drivers are employees of FedEx and are required to follow specific company rules, especially concerning drop-offs. FedEx Ground was a corporate acquisition a few years back. (Used to be RPS.) Their drivers are NOT FedEx employees. They are independent contractors. They are NOT required to follow all of the same rules. (They also do not receive the same compensation!) They are paid by the package and hence, tend to "drop and run" a lot more.

This arrangement saves FedEx money, but causes you problems. It has been the cause of several lawsuits.

[jezzeaepi]

Thanks for the information Jim. I had hoped that I could send the package through UPS, because they have a whole special system for packages with declared values over $1000. Every driver is personally responsible for these high value packages, and consequently they never get lost(I used to work at a place that shipped hundereds of UPS packages a day). I was pretty shocked to find that Fedex doesn't do something similar. As JohnnyHarmonica posted though, if its not insured, then you dont get the special treatment.

[shaunsteig]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. I've always been a long-time fan of FedEx over UPS, mostly for convenience reasons (FedEx more willing to pick-up, easier to find drop-off FedEx service centers), service (much much better support with delivering packages requiring signatures when I'm not home during weekdays -- which for me is alway), and cost (FedEx has discount with my Amex card).

I recently sent my first submission to PSA and used FedEx. But I discovered that they won't insure collectibles such as baseball cards for more than $1000. The explanation that the service center offered was that they can't be certain of the box's contents and value, especially for such condition-sensitive items. There are many other types of items, besides collectibles, for which they also limit the insurance. Can't say that I found the explanation satisfying, but anyway it's worth keeping that limitation in mind. Next time I submitted, I sent it USPS so that I could insure it for the full amount.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by shaunsteig

. The explanation that the service center offered was that they can't be certain of the box's contents and value, especially for such condition-sensitive items. .

That sounds ridiculous. While the statement may be true, if you pay for $5K of insurance you should get $5k back if lost.

[buymycards]

This is from the Fed Ex website.
Shipments (packages or freight) containing all or part of the following items are limited to a maximum declared value of US$1,000:
Artwork, including any work created or developed by the application of skill, taste or creative talent for sale, display or collection. This includes, but is not limited to, items (and their parts) such as paintings, drawings, vases, tapestries, limited-edition prints, fine art, statuary, sculpture and collector's items.
Film, photographic images (including photographic negatives), photographic chromes and photographic slides.
Any commodity that by its inherent nature is particularly susceptible to damage or the market value of which is particularly variable or difficult to ascertain.
Antiques, or any commodity that exhibits the style or fashion of a past era and whose history, age or rarity contributes to its value. These items include, but are not limited to, furniture, tableware and glassware.
Glassware, including, but not limited to, signs, mirrors, ceramics, porcelains, china, crystal, glass, framed glass, and any other commodity with similarly fragile qualities.
Plasma screens.
Jewelry, including, but not limited to, costume jewelry, watches and their parts, mount gems or stones (precious or semiprecious), industrial diamonds, and jewelry made of precious metal.
Furs, including, but not limited to, fur clothing, fur-trimmed clothing and fur pelts.
Precious metals, including, but not limited to, gold and silver bullion or dust, precipitates, or platinum (except as an integral part of electronic machinery).
Stocks, bonds, cash letters or cash equivalents, including, but not limited to, food stamps, postage stamps (not collectible), traveler's checks, lottery tickets, money orders, gift cards and gift certificates, prepaid calling cards (excluding those that require a code for activation), bond coupons, and bearer bonds.
Collector's items such as coins, stamps, sports cards, souvenirs and memorabilia.

[jezzeaepi]

So what of value is there to ship that isn’t on that list? No art, no jewelry, nothing with "fragile qualities," no gems, no precious metals, no antiques, no collectibles, and no papers that have value associated with them. That leaves clothing, and durable electronics? I guess I’ll just go with USPS next time.

I think it’s silly that certain items are excluded. If they sell you the insurance, then they should be on the hook for the value of the insurance that they sold you. I find it especially irritating in my case because I told them exactly what was in my package, and exactly how much I wanted to insure it for. I can understand that they don’t want to be on the hook for fragile items that are packed incorrectly, but just about anything can be packaged safely for shipment if you know what you’re doing.

[buymycards]

The other thing is that it took me 20 minutes to find this paragraph on their website. It was difficult because they don't call it "insurance', they call it "declared value".

[Mrc32]

I'm sorry when this happens to people. I had the USPS lose my first submission to psa. It was insured but I didn't send it registered. They lost a lot of t205s. It sucked. Sorry this happened to you. I hope you can track it down.

[t206hound]

What's the significance here? Did you get compensated?

Originally Posted by Mrc32

It was insured but I didn't send it registered. They lost a lot of t205s. It sucked.

[Smokey Joe]

IMHO....it is not the company (FED-Ex, UPS, USPS) but the worker. I know 4 people that work at FED-EX, 3 people that work at UPS, and 5 who work at USPS.
I have brought this subject up to most of them and they all say they know some workers who don't care. Aside from Reg. mail from USPS because if a packaged shipped Reg. mail falls on their hands and it is lost there is no if, ands, or buts....that person is responsible. If i have a package worth $1,000 or more i only ship USPS reg. mail and have never lost a package.

Correct on fed-ex not insuring baseball cards. Have asked and they won't do it.

If USPS loses a insured package they will pay but you need to wait 3 months and show proof the package was worth (X) amount of money...

[Zact]

Sorry this happened to you.

These are the guidlines I use for myself when shipping collectibles.
I always use USPS.

(1)Anything under $100 value. I ship USPS first class or priority flat rate box with delivery confirmation. I am "self insuring " at this point - I feel it is not worth the $ for the insurance.

(1) above $100 value to $250
USPS first class or priority with delivery confirmation and insurance

(3) $250 - $500. USPS priority plus signature confirmation and insurance. This (signature conf) will cover you for Ebay transactions and and paypal disputes.

(4)$500 -$1000 USPS Express with signature conf and insurance

(5) above $1000 registered mail or Express with insurance and Signature confirmation. Note that registered mail takes a long time ( up to 10-14 days) because of the step by step "lock and key" process.

[oskafagus]

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

Correct on fed-ex not insuring baseball cards. Have asked and they won't do it.

So all the money that I've been paying to insure my return packages from SGC and PSA lo these many years has been for nothing? Doesn't SGC recommend Fedex?

[glynparson]

It was about 12-15 years ago they ran over a box I had insured for $2500. They tried to not pay me. My lawyer sent a letter to the mail n ship for you place that i used informing them we would be suing them and all of a sudden fed ex decided to cough up the money. I may have been saved by using the third party I don't know. But I had clearly stated they were baseball cards and their agent accepted them was the argument my lawyer made and they caved. Hope it turns out well for you.

[barrysloate]

My feeling, which of course the shippers don't share, is that you can insure any box for anything you want, and if it is lost you are entitled to full recovery without the need to demonstrate what was inside.

If I want to ship a ball of string via registered mail and insure it for $25K, the maximum allowed, that is my prerogative. If you take the argument that I am scamming the post office because if it gets lost I get a big payday, then guess what: if I sent a hundred boxes like that hoping even one got lost, every last one of them would make it to their destination and I would be out thousands of dollars in fees without seeing a penny. Anybody trying to scam the post office that way is guaranteed to lose.

Now I have had a few first class USPS packages lost, and they have always demanded to see the invoice, receipt, or whatever can document the amount of the item lost. Why? I am paying more than I need to to ship something with insurance, so why would I add to my own expenses if nothing were inside the box? Hoping against hope that it might get lost? I don't think so.

Of course it goes without saying that the post office doesn't buy my theory.

[E93]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

My feeling, which of course the shippers don't share, is that you can insure any box for anything you want, and if it is lost you are entitled to full recovery without the need to demonstrate what was inside.

If I want to ship a ball of string via registered mail and insure it for $25K, the maximum allowed, that is my prerogative. If you take the argument that I am scamming the post office because if it gets lost I get a big payday, then guess what: if I sent a hundred boxes like that hoping even one got lost, every last one of them would make it to their destination and I would be out thousands of dollars in fees without seeing a penny. Anybody trying to scam the post office that way is guaranteed to lose.

Now I have had a few first class USPS packages lost, and they have always demanded to see the invoice, receipt, or whatever can document the amount of the item lost. Why? I am paying more than I need to to ship something with insurance, so why would I add to my own expenses if nothing were inside the box? Hoping against hope that it might get lost? I don't think so.

Of course it goes without saying that the post office doesn't buy my theory.

Exactly. I have never understood why they give a $H!t what is inside. It is simply a bet on their part that they lose a smaller percentage of packages than they make money on by insuring. It is simply a numbers game.

In other words, if they bet (charge) $10 to insure a $100 package and lose less than one out of 11, they make money whether it is string or baseball cards. They are up $10.
JimB

[barrysloate]

Jim- I'll even take it a step further and say the post office should encourage people to put paper clips in a box, send it registered with 25K worth of insurance, and guarantee the sender full reimbursement if it gets lost, no questions asked.

It would probably bring in millions of dollars of added revenue, and if they do their job right not one package would get lost. It might even close their budget gap.

If they made me postmaster general, I could balance their books in two years.

[baseballart]

Originally Posted by E93

Exactly. I have never understood why they give a $H!t what is inside. B

Well, sometimes they should http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81318891/.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by jezzeaepi

Alright, so we have a major breakthrough in the case! I went down to my shipper, and had him print up the signature confirmation page. The name didnt mean anything to me, but I did notice something else. On the regular tracking page, it doesnt give you the full address of the person who the package was delivered too. It only lists the city and state. On the signature confirmation page it gives you the full address, and the place I sent it too(PSA) was not the place that fedex delivered it too. They actually delivered it to someone 2 blocks away. Go fedex. Thank you for your help guys. The signature confirmation page was the key to the mystery. My nightmare still isnt over, but let it be said:
PSA does not lose packages. Fedex does.
Peace,
Jesse

Jesse,
What did Fedex say about delivering the package to the wrong address? will they at least refund the shipping charges? If I were you, I would find a cheap flight to LA and visit the address where the package was delivered. I would look for the person whose name is on the slip. The worst that could happen is that I would spend a couple of days in sunny California.
Mark

[Ease]

Originally Posted by baseballart

Well, sometimes they should http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81318891/.

Gawd! There's absolutely no excuse for that kind of ignorance, how does someone that stupid live to adulthood?

[jezzeaepi]

Originally Posted by Mark

Jesse,
What did Fedex say about delivering the package to the wrong address? will they at least refund the shipping charges? If I were you, I would find a cheap flight to LA and visit the address where the package was delivered. I would look for the person whose name is on the slip. The worst that could happen is that I would spend a couple of days in sunny California.
Mark

Lol, this is actually a hilarious idea if FedEx gives me a real hard time(yet strangely cost effective given the alternatives).

I second the fact that the "insurance" information you posted was extremely difficult to locate. I looked for about 15 minutes and couldn't find it anywhere because I "foolishly" was looking for "insurance" too, not "declared value."

I like the idea though about getting a lawyer involved if I am denied, since I did ship through a third party mail center, and not directly on my own fed ex account, so maybe there is a chance.

Peace,
Jesse

[Peter_Spaeth]

Since an unauthorized signatory apparently stole your package, or at least that is what the evidence suggests, perhaps you should be in touch with the Newport Beach police department to track down the person for you.

[jezzeaepi]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Since an unauthorized signatory apparently stole your package, or at least that is what the evidence suggests, perhaps you should be in touch with the Newport Beach police department to track down the person for you.

Yah that's probably the next step here. I called Fedex on Friday, and they said they would "do a trace on my package and get back to me in a few days." "A few days" didn't sound reassuring as a time estimate, given that I had already solved their investigation for them.

[Smokey Joe]

Barry: If you insure a ball of string for $25K, and it gets lost. I can guarantee unless you show proof that ball of string is worth $25K, you will not get that money....now you said registered mail, so i doubt that package would ever get lost.

[E93]

Originally Posted by Smokey Joe

Barry: If you insure a ball of string for $25K, and it gets lost. I can guarantee unless you show proof that ball of string is worth $25K, you will not get that money....now you said registered mail, so i doubt that package would ever get lost.

You are probably right. Now my question is: If I open it in front of the mail carrier and show that it is just string, can the shipper get their insurance money back?
JimB

[barrysloate]

Mark- I know that, and I'm not disputing that without proof they won't pay. But why should they care? Why would anybody register a worthless box for 25K? It would cost around $60, and nobody is just going to give the post office $60 gratuitously. The only possible outcome would be that maybe it actually would get lost. But registered packages virtually never do (I haven't lost one in 25 years, and I bet I've sent close to a thousand).

So of course they demand proof, but I, as well as Jim B., are suggesting it shouldn't matter. Since they deliver every registered package they should encourage everyone to insure things for 25K. It's just a lot more money in their pocket.

[Smokey Joe]

Barry: They only care if money has to be paid out....of course these companies (FED-EX, UPS,USPS) will take any kind of insurance since it's "FREE" money. I still say Fed-ex will not insure baseball cards but 99.9% of packages get to there destination. My wife is in insurance and i know the in's and out's. Biggest scam on the planet Earth...insurance.

[barrysloate]

I know Mark. There are many situations where one takes out insurance, then finds out he cannot collect on it. Just hope that all packages reach their destination. In almost every case they do.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Ease

Gawd! There's absolutely no excuse for that kind of ignorance, how does someone that stupid live to adulthood?

They should force that lady into a big box, put a few holes in it so she can breathe, and then put her ass on a plane for 3 days. Just like Mike Vick should only get done to him what he did to those dogs. Nothing more and nothing less. And all of this should be done publicly. Then we could see how long these idiots do this stuff.

[jezzeaepi]

So I called fedex today to see if they had located my package, and they said "they could not locate the person who is in charge of my case, and they will call back tomorrow." lol. I guess they can't find anything over there. Classic...

[packs]

I went through a similar issue with UPS recently. My girlfriend's package was signed for by "someone" in our building, then located, and then "lost." They kept telling me the same thing every time I called: We will have a response in 2-5 business days. But I got fed up after waiting more than two weeks for a response. After waiting and hearing nothing I called one day and demanded to speak to everyone's supervisor that was placed on the line, as high up as I could get them to put me through to. Once I started demanding to speak to supervisors my package mysteriously materialized two days later.

[ValKehl]

Until recently, I had never experienced a lost item by the USPS, and my wife and I have shipped approx. 3,500 items from our eBay sales (we do lotsa yard sales, church sales, etc. and sell our findings on eBay). But, on December 28th, I mailed a bb card to another Net 54er that never reached him. I had insured it (for less than its full value, much to my chagrin) but did not purchase a delivery confirmation or return receipt, because a few years ago a USPS clerk told me it was not necessary to spend money for these "extras" since I had bought insurance. On January 25th, I mailed my insurance claim with documentation as to the value of the card (copy of an email containing the agreed selling price). And, today I received a check from the USPS for the full amount of my claim. No hassle, and relatively fast. Hopefully, the card will turn up some day - I'll gladly return the money to the USPS if it does!

FWIIW, I think the USPS's rates for insurance are rather high. My guess is the insurance aspect of their business is very profitable, even though the USPS is losing money big-time overall.
Val