Another Probstein123 black eye

[texmrsport]

Blowout Basketball Forum has a post about a card that is up for auction by Probstein123. It's a 2008 Jordan/James dual auto. He had the card originally graded a PSA 7. Sold the card and is now in a PSA 9. The original owner shows back pictures to show how much the card has been cut.

Rick got back to someone questioning the auction and his reply was.

eBay
New message from: probstein123 Top Rated Seller(461,986RedShooting Star)
“we hold by psa over the forums...if psa contacts us then we remove the listing...not because of the forums...
they should contact psa if they think psa made an error”

Profits before integrity. Sorry for lack of links but don't know how to do them properly.

[swarmee]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1176816

[savedfrommyspokes]

Is the grade not for the AUTO that is on the card and not he card itself? Apparently the AUTO got the bump, not the card itself.

[JollyElm]

Made these so people can see what's being talked about. The top cards in each paring are the 'originals' and the bottoms are 'probstein-ized' and swimming in the holder from the trim job...

jordanjamesfront.jpg
jordanjamesback.jpg

The most obvious difference is on the back left, where the '1' in the '15' on the banner is sliced dramatically.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Made these so people can see what's being talked about. The top cards in each paring are the 'originals' and the bottoms are 'probstein-ized' and swimming in the holder from the trim job...

Attachment 300631
Attachment 300632

The most obvious difference is on the back left, where the '1' in the '15' on the banner is sliced dramatically.

Wow, that looks pretty bad IMO. Good think PSA is so trusted and we as collectors put so much blind faith into them printing money...

[texmrsport]

Thank you for posting the pictures. PSA should have done a better job grading the card. Mistakes are made and I hope they correct this one.

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Made these so people can see what's being talked about. The top cards in each paring are the 'originals' and the bottoms are 'probstein-ized' and swimming in the holder from the trim job...

Attachment 300631
Attachment 300632

The most obvious difference is on the back left, where the '1' in the '15' on the banner is sliced dramatically.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Made these so people can see what's being talked about. The top cards in each paring are the 'originals' and the bottoms are 'probstein-ized' and swimming in the holder from the trim job...

Attachment 300631
Attachment 300632

The most obvious difference is on the back left, where the '1' in the '15' on the banner is sliced dramatically.

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger
on the back of the supposed trimmed one, almost the same amount
of difference as the 1 on the banner. The gold border and ornamental
design looks completely different on the fronts I thought that was the scans
but then it looks like two different backs with a slight shift difference on them. Something seems odd about the whole thing.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Pat R

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger

If you look at the first card, part of the side of the card is obscured by the PSA clear prong on the side with the finger. If you compare the autographs on the front, there is no question they are the exact same card. If they made slight variations of this set that were both #/25 (one silver and one gold or something), the guys at Blowout would know.

Yes, there's a lot of exaggerated anger there, but they are great at spotting and outing cases of fraud.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by swarmee

If you look at the first card, part of the side of the card is obscured by the PSA clear prong on the side with the finger. If you compare the autographs on the front, there is no question they are the exact same card. If they made slight variations of this set that were both #/25 (one silver and one gold or something), the guys at Blowout would know.

Yes, there's a lot of exaggerated anger there, but they are great at spotting and outing cases of fraud.

Yeah I considered that but it looks like on the upper right that isn't
obscured that there is more black showing from the white rail to the border
on the 9 too but it must be because of the scans vs photo's.

Jordan-Lebron Back.jpg

[seablaster]

Originally Posted by Pat R

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger
on the back of the supposed trimmed one, almost the same amount
of difference as the 1 on the banner. The gold border and ornamental
design looks completely different on the fronts I thought that was the scans
but then it looks like two different backs with a slight shift difference on them. Something seems odd about the whole thing.

The earlier images of the card are photos, not scans. The Lebron finger/hand concerned me as well when you mentioned it, but if you go to the Blowout thread, the images are larger and it's easier to see.

It's the same card in my opinion...minus a portion of that edge that is.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Pat R

[/B]

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger
on the back of the supposed trimmed one, almost the same amount
of difference as the 1 on the banner. The gold border and ornamental
design looks completely different on the fronts I thought that was the scans
but then it looks like two different backs with a slight shift difference on them. Something seems odd about the whole thing.

Well, if I'm reading what you are saying correctly, it seems the angle of the picture plus the bright flash is adding to distorting his hand area. You can see the flash on the case right next to the area in question. Since the original bumped corner was the upper left on back, it appears they trimmed the top just a teeny bit and the left side more substantially. James shouldn't show any signs of trimming, as he is situated in the wrong place.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Pat R

[/B]

But how do you explain that there is more of Lebron's hand and finger
on the back of the supposed trimmed one, almost the same amount
of difference as the 1 on the banner. The gold border and ornamental
design looks completely different on the fronts I thought that was the scans
but then it looks like two different backs with a slight shift difference on them. Something seems odd about the whole thing.

I agree, maybe both sides were trimmed on the "9?"
Finger does look off...

[clydepepper]

probstein is DEAD to me

[Jenx34]

Okay, I read the thread on blowout. Am I missing something? In that whole thread all they do is bitch about Probstein and PSA. They bitch about how Probstein handled it. But in Probstein's response, isn't he pretty much saying is if it is graded incorrectly PSA needs to step in? So while Probstein should perhaps do a little investigating himself and contact PSA, it seems pretty obvious to me if the OP wants to do anything he should complain to and send pictures to PSA. Nowhere in that thread does it say PSA has been contacted.

I'm sure there are many more nuances to this, but I can see a consignor taking the PSA grade at face value and not seeing it as their responsibility to question it. Granted if it were me, I'd certainly ask a few questions.

I guess the thread bugged me because it went on to bash PSA about handing out 10's like candy and referenced a PSA 10 Aaron Rodgers that looks off-center. I looked at several of those cards, graded and raw and EVERY ONE of them was cut the same way, including a BGS 9.5 Gem Mint. I'm not a member there so I made no comments. But to me, the thread was a bunch of mostly misplaced criticism.

I'm not absolving Probstein of all responsibility, but it seems to me the way to get it fixed is to contact PSA and let them investigate and contact Probstein. Just my $.02

[drcy]

An auction house should ultimately be responsible for the authenticity, and I question auction houses that defer to outside services when a spade is obviously a spade. This is too common in this hobby.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by drcy

An auction house should ultimately be responsible for the authenticity, and I question auction houses that defer to outside services when a spade is obviously a spade. This is too common in this hobby.

An emphatic +1.

[esd10]

It seems like these big spenders with psa can basically buy the grade they want with little issue.