1888 Scraps "Tobacco" ? Y95

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Posted By: leon

According to the Krause SCD the origins of Scraps cards is unknown. We might have had this discussion before but why aren't they referred to by their ACC number, ever? Is it that Jeff Burdick had it wrong? I doubt it. Here is what he said, verbatim, from the ACC, revision 1960.
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Scrap Picutres
Most of these die cut and embossed picures were made in Germany. The principal use was to embellish the old scrap albums of the 1880's by filling in the odd spaces between cards. Some were sold in pockets specially put out for making home-made Valentines and other Greeting items. Small sizes came in sheets held together by small tabs. Larger ones were often very intricate designs up to a foot long. There were many sets, mostly Children's tales and legends as William and Robinson Crusoe. There are also series of rulers, writers, ballplayers, etc. A small album of these pictures never fails to attract attention.

Y95- Small sizes in sheets......... .50 to 1.00 depending on size
Y96- Larger items........average lots .10, selected .05 to .50 cents

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So why haven't these ever gotten their respect of being "Y95" as Burdick stated, or much respect at all for that matter? Am I missing something here?

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Posted By: T E

I've sold many of these over the years, sorry, non-baseball only, but I never knew what they were. I always assumed they were cut from trade cards. I've also tossed many away. Whoops!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Good question, tougher answer. For one, the label incorrectly refers to the die cut as Scrapp Tobacco, but no tobacco product was involved here. The "Y" designation is also tricky, as there are no other "Y" cards known in the baseball hobby. Finally, Rob Lifson has claimed that the term "Scrapps" was coined by him and stuck. If Rob is reading this, maybe he could shed more light. I know I haven't answered your question, just sharing what I know about them.

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Posted By: david

i believe the confusion started with rob lifson when he erroneously called them scrapps tobacco in one of his old auction catalogs. he acknowledged this rather humorously in the last auction. most people generally accept that they were punch outs although a complete sheet has never been seen.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

the team players of the R&S Artistic series would fall under that ACC designation? I've had a partial 'sheet' of them with 3 players and Tik had a full sheet of the 10 players I believe. Would be cool to see a full sheet of Scraps, huh?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Nobody has ever seen an uncut sheet of Scrapps, and it is possible that St. Louis and Detroit would be separate. Wouldn't that make for a great find? But considering how intricate and delicate they are, it would be almost impossible for a sheet to survive, unless the whole thing would fit on a scrapbook page.

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Posted By: david

i think it is almost certain that the st louis and detroit teams were issued on seperate sheats. also, from other punch outs of the era the cards were more or less already punched and held onto the sheet by the tabs with no further support so it would be something to see intacted sheet.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Recently an auction on ebay had a scrapbook that contained the whole St Louis team...this in my estimation is unusual to see the whole team in one scrapbook so I'm not certain that all 9 were on one sheet....usually you find them one or two per scrapbook. One other thing that I've noticed is the St Louis seem much more easy to find than the Detroit Scrapps.

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Posted By: Paul

Years ago, these were commonly referred to as Y95. I'm not sure why that label has fallen out of use.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

There are thousands of different scraps, picturing kitty cats to baseball. The ACC numbers appear to apply all of these different kinds, and not specifically to the baseball versions. It's the equivalent of applying one ACC to all the tobacco cards including non-sport. The baseball scraps we are talking about should have a more specific name or number, as scrap, and the ACC, is too generic for one baseball issue. Call them Y951 if you wish.

Even though they aren't tobacco cards, and those aren't tobacco stains, Scrapps Tobacco is a catchy name.

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Posted By: leon

Burdick didn't always make it easy on us. He mentioned ballplayers and he mentioned small and large scraps...with large ones being up to a foot long. The small ones are what the baseball players are imo.....

Y95- Small sizes in sheets......... .50 to 1.00 depending on size

So I think stating they are Y95 is what Burdick had in mind for these....I wish he were here to speak with about it......

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I know they are Y95, but so are thousands of non-baseball scraps. I was saying it was a generic designation, as compared to T206 or T207

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Posted By: david

i think there is reluctance in general to change any of the numbering or to add new numbers. most newly discovered issues just get a n-unc instead of a proper number so i think we are stuck with scrapps as they are listed now.

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Posted By: leon

I think we are arguing the same point. Just as t206 is many different mfg's (or ads at least) so can Scraps be......My initial question was why don't we ever see the Y95 designation? It's the correct ACC one for these cards.....

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Posted By: davidcycleback

A number of baseball trade card sets (Forbes, etc) have catalog #s that are rarely used, in part because few would recognize the number. Leon, start using Y95 and maybe you'll start a trend. But, as I said, Y95 is too broad a designation to be anything other than ornimation. There are about as many different Y95s as there are different Ts and Es. If you're talking about baseball Y95s, and saying Y95 to a baseball only crowd, then I agree there are only a few.

I assume the Spalding baseball die-cut qualifies as a Y96.

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Posted By: david

i think it would be approriate to designate them y95-x with x distinguishing between all the different small scrapps. somewhere along the way the designation was dropped and price guides just continue to follow the practice of not using a designation, mostly because they rarely update listings.

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Posted By: leon

We don't say "T206 Piedmont 150", we say T206.....so I still think that Y95 is good...but somehow I think I will be the only one using it . Oh well, won't be the first time I am on an island by myself..

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- if you post "Y95's for sale" people's eyes will glaze over.

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Posted By: fkw

The Spalding cards are H808

In the past I have used the Y95 for the Scrapps cards and especially the R&S diecuts.

BTW why were the R&S diecuts taken out of the big book??

Its funny how some items especially some pins, felts and the R&S diecuts that used to be in older SCD Catalogs are no longer in it. Glad I kept my older books.

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Posted By: david

leon t206 is not a good example since there are some people that would argue that the different back brands constitute different sets in the same way we distinguish t206 from coupons and red cross.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Leon, there's nothing wrong with using Y95. If you or other use the designation on his website or eBay, there's nothing to be self conscious about.

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

Frank, the "R&S" die-cuts weren't removed from the 2007 Standard Catalog, they were moved alphabetically to the Ts, Page 492, under 1888 Rafael Tuck & Sons Artistic Series Baseball.

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Posted By: fkw

Thanks Bob,

I see than now. I skipped right over them in the Chronological Index too.

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Posted By: John Harrell

I picked one up recently as a type card for $30 as someone had listed it on Evilbay incorrectly. My wife loves it and wants the whole set. When I told her what they usually sell for, she asked what I paid for this one. If I find more I'll be sure to keep them away from her.

Interesting info about the origin and use of Y95 cards. It's another reason to keep these away from my wife as she collects Victorian calling cards.

John