Isa graders?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by pclpads

Maybe you missed this earlier post: "On an ebay search, the first card that comes up is an ISA 9 33 Goudey. That was enough for me."

My post was obviously over your head. The point is, PSA & SGC now have years of cred. So, why go to a newer, unproven? When PSA & SGC started, what was the slab competition . . . CSA, PRO, KSA?? I'd take my chances on a PSA or SGC slab any day of the week over the same card in a ISA slab. What are you, a flack for ISA?

no, i had never heard of them before, i just reject out of the hand the old argument that a new startup cant be trusted, then no one would have trusted sgc, because psa was already up and running by then, so why take a chance on sgc.

you are suggesting psa and sgc opened at the same time, and they didnt - psa started first, please correct me if i am in error.

same with autographs, people will say - "why go with someone other than psa or jsa.

well, when jsa started, where were those people saying "why go with someone other than psa?"

no startup would or could succeed following that line of reasoning.

[drc]

It's true that people in the hobby can be automatically dismissive about the new and different. I've noticed that through the years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who is the grader? What are his qualifications and more importantly his reputation?

[Wymers Auction]

If I was that curious I would buy an inexpensive ISA card and view the item for myself. There are several of these startups that grade dinged up cards as 10's.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who is the grader? What are his qualifications and more importantly his reputation?

The head grader's qualifications: he was born to grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sounds like a Springsteen hit.

[drc]

As a watcher of vintage horror movies (ala Bela Lugosi), it makes me wonder what kind of unholy, unearthly lab experiment would produce a human born to be a grader.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sounds like a Springsteen hit.

Very few people actually know that the original title of Springsteen's 1975 breakout hit was "Born to Grade." Who would have known he was a card geek when he was young?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Was "Grading in the Dark" about PSA, SGC, or both?

[acramos1]

Instead of people just dogging ISA, can we get some opinions from people who have actually dealt with the company?

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by travrosty

no, i had never heard of them before, i just reject out of the hand the old argument that a new startup cant be trusted, then no one would have trusted sgc, because psa was already up and running by then, so why take a chance on sgc.

you are suggesting psa and sgc opened at the same time, and they didnt - psa started first, please correct me if i am in error.

same with autographs, people will say - "why go with someone other than psa or jsa.

well, when jsa started, where were those people saying "why go with someone other than psa?"

no startup would or could succeed following that line of reasoning.

So, if you had a '52T Mantle, your grading co. of choice would be ISA and you really believe that would maximize the value over the same card in a PSA or SGC slab?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pclpads

So, if you had a '52T Mantle, your grading co. of choice would be ISA and you really believe that would maximize the value over the same card in a PSA or SGC slab?

It might if ISA gave it a numerical grade and the others would have deemed it altered; or graded it 2 grades higher. Otherwise, clearly not. More generally, I don't think it's impossible for a new market entrant to make headway, but I think the market would require a lot of information about the grader and his reputation. There have been quite a number of sham grading services in the past and the burden is on any new one to convince us that it isn't one more.

[drc]

I agree that a new company has to demonstrate their skills and/or document their experience. If a new company does a credible, good job it can catch on with time-- though I'd think card grading can be a tough area to get a foothold.

I think if a company does a good job, many collectors will eventually be welcoming. Collectors often say it would be nice if there was a new quality grader.

[T206DK]

I wonder if their facebook page still exists. it showed a bunch of young kids as the employees....

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would welcome a grading service with expert graders free from influence and ownership free from conflict of interest.

[novakjr]

Well, at least the Cobb/Edwards Wagner wasn't the first card that they graded.. ISA's definitely off to a better start than others..

[travrosty]

they say they want a new quality grader, but if it ever comes to fruition, they swarm like sharks and hyenas to denounce the company because all their stuff is in psa or gsc holders, and they dont want to dilute what they already have.

if a new company overtook sgc or psa and caught on TOO MUCH, then all their stuff has to be regraded and pay again, it's what happened with gai and autograph authentication.

so they really DONT want someone newm everm no matter how good.

[drc]

The majority of new graders have been scams to borderline scams, so skepticism from card collectors isn't just knee jerk.

Some basement graders were there to grade fakes and altered cards, and others existed to overgrade as the grader was also the cards owner and seller. One infamous grader graded pictures cut out of books, representing them as cards-- and, yes, the grader, the picture cutter and the seller were the same person. Some graders clearly did not care if their grade or card description was accurate (they often knew the grade and description was wrong)-- they were only interested in taking money from newbie collectors who didn't know better.

So card collectors who have been around the block are going to be skeptical when the latest grader pops up. History hasn't exactly been pretty.

[ksabet]

...nevermind

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It might if ISA gave it a numerical grade and the others would have deemed it altered; or graded it 2 grades higher. Otherwise, clearly not. More generally, I don't think it's impossible for a new market entrant to make headway, but I think the market would require a lot of information about the grader and his reputation. There have been quite a number of sham grading services in the past and the burden is on any new one to convince us that it isn't one more.

+1

The only reason I could imagine someone sending in a high profile card like a 53 Mantle or an 86 Jordan to a company no one has heard of is that they couldn't get a numerical grade out of PSA or SGC. Anyone buying these cards is probably hoping to cross but chances are someone has already tried and failed.

[rocarroll]

Originally Posted by travrosty

no, i had never heard of them before, i just reject out of the hand the old argument that a new startup cant be trusted, then no one would have trusted sgc, because psa was already up and running by then, so why take a chance on sgc.

you are suggesting psa and sgc opened at the same time, and they didnt - psa started first, please correct me if i am in error.

same with autographs, people will say - "why go with someone other than psa or jsa.

well, when jsa started, where were those people saying "why go with someone other than psa?"

no startup would or could succeed following that line of reasoning.

That may be true, but I don't want to be the guinea pig for them. Especially considering the fact I'm only saving $3 over SGC. No thanks but best of luck to you on that.

[midmo]

If nothing else I really like their simple pricing structure. I wish the others would take note. I've never understood why the value of a card should dictate the price to grade it. That always seemed wrong to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by midmo

If nothing else I really like their simple pricing structure. I wish the others would take note. I've never understood why the value of a card should dictate the price to grade it. That always seemed wrong to me.

Because a flat rate would be much higher than the lowest rate and would create a disincentive to grade less pricey cards. Simple business.

[midmo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Because a flat rate would be much higher than the lowest rate and would create a disincentive to grade less pricey cards. Simple business.

Fair enough, I guess that makes sense. It doesn't effect me anyway since I've never sent a card in to be graded. Have considered it, but after filling those forms out a couple times I've stopped myself and thought, "eh I don't really care that much". Maybe I'd think differently if I was selling, but I'm just collecting.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by rocarroll

That may be true, but I don't want to be the guinea pig for them. Especially considering the fact I'm only saving $3 over SGC. No thanks but best of luck to you on that.

Am I the only person here who is understanding what Travrosty is getting at?

He is not trying to promote the company or saying they are worth anyones time. He's simply stating that competition is good and that its a shame that no one wants to try new companies but insist on bashing the current ones.

We want change yet as collectors we stick with what we have been doing right or wrong. Because after all we buy the holders not the cards right?

[travrosty]

thats right i am not trying to promote the company, just trying to understand that when the phrase "buy the card not the holder" is bantered around i guess when push comes to shove, it's "buy the holder not the card". thats what i can glean from all of this.

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by travrosty

thats right i am not trying to promote the company, just trying to understand that when the phrase "buy the card not the holder" is bantered around i guess when push comes to shove, it's "buy the holder not the card". thats what i can glean from all of this.

If I see two cards that appear to be high grade and one is in an ISA (or CSA or GAI, etc., etc.) holder and the other is in a PSA holder then damn straight I'm putting my faith in the PSA holder!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by travrosty

thats right i am not trying to promote the company, just trying to understand that when the phrase "buy the card not the holder" is bantered around i guess when push comes to shove, it's "buy the holder not the card". thats what i can glean from all of this.

ive been saying that for the longest time here about buying the holder not the card. is still what predominately happens no matter what people say........nice to see some finally agree with me....

was a thread about me asking to see someone actually on net54 buy a card with a lower grade than a higher grade card in the same auction....we shall see....

if a new company offers insurance or an issue to protect a buyer if a card is bought with the holder and there proves to be a significant defect not worth of the grade and the buyer can be compensated the difference in sale value that would be a good start and no reason to pick psa over them if you truly a buy the card not the holder person...

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

ive been saying that for the longest time here about buying the holder not the card. is still what predominately happens no matter what people say........nice to see some finally agree with me....

was a thread about me asking to see someone actually on net54 buy a card with a lower grade than a higher grade card in the same auction....we shall see....

if a new company offers insurance or an issue to protect a buyer if a card is bought with the holder and there proves to be a significant defect not worth of the grade and the buyer can be compensated the difference in sale value that would be a good start and no reason to pick psa over them if you truly a buy the card not the holder person...

Buy the card not the holder is one thing. To me that's just people saying don't overpay for an off center or poor registration card because it has a certain grade. Or don't be afraid to pay more than a certain grade goes for if the card looks great.

It certainly doesn't mean to pay a lot of money for a high end card graded by a company that no one uses. Everyone knows people use these kind of companies to grade cards that don't make it through PSA or SGC. This means someone would have to know nothing about the current market to send a legitimate card into ISA. The only way I would buy one of these high end cards ISA graded is if the seller will accept a return if it won't cross, knowing I'll only be out my time and grading fees.

This has nothing to do with buying the card and not the holder. I just don't want to end up with an expensive fake or altered card.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Buy the card not the holder is one thing. To me that's just people saying don't overpay for an off center or poor registration card because it has a certain grade. Or don't be afraid to pay more than a certain grade goes for if the card looks great.

It certainly doesn't mean to pay a lot of money for a high end card graded by a company that no one uses. Everyone knows people use these kind of companies to grade cards that don't make it through PSA or SGC. This means someone would have to know nothing about the current market to send a legitimate card into ISA. The only way I would buy one of these high end cards ISA graded is if the seller will accept a return if it won't cross, knowing I'll only be out my time and grading fees.

This has nothing to do with buying the card and not the holder. I just don't want to end up with an expensive fake or altered card.

so you are saying ISA only encapsulates fake or altered cards and the other big companies have done so? Got it.