PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[Peter_Spaeth]

My guess is that this card has had significant chemical intervention, in which case it is not a "small small" matter as Brent suggests. I hope I am wrong.

And I will go further to say that if he is aware that the card was restored/altered to make a significant difference in its appearance and grade, he is withholding a material fact.

[ullmandds]

Here we go again... nothing at all new here... card has been embellished...it is obvious to anyone with decent vision let alone the foremost grading company in the world. The card is over graded it has obvious remnants of what used to be there it is not a seven and should not be a seven. And it seems some people are now on PSA's payroll!!

[orly57]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Here we go again... nothing at all new here... card has been embellished...it is obvious to anyone with decent vision let alone the foremost grading company in the world. The card is over graded it has obvious remnants of what used to be there it is not a seven and should not be a seven. And it seems some people are now on PSA's payroll!!

This

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Here we go again... nothing at all new here... card has been embellished...it is obvious to anyone with decent vision let alone the foremost grading company in the world. The card is over graded it has obvious remnants of what used to be there it is not a seven and should not be a seven. And it seems some people are now on PSA's payroll!!

Someone can't give an honest opinion now without being accused of being on a payroll? Are you in the media LOL...?

[orly57]

I don't think he meant you Leon. If he did, I withdraw my approval of that portion of the post.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by orly57

I don't think he meant you Leon. If he did, I withdraw my approval of the post.

I think it is great to share differing opinions.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Here we go again... nothing at all new here... card has been embellished...it is obvious to anyone with decent vision let alone the foremost grading company in the world. The card is over graded it has obvious remnants of what used to be there it is not a seven and should not be a seven. And it seems some people are now on PSA's payroll!!

++This. I guess I see this as black and white. It's altered, period. don't care if it's chemicals or water. But this is not my world of buying, so can't proclaim to know how it affects the market.

I don't see how this can be good for the hobby. It has all the appearances of fraud and deception. Heck, even PSA can't figure it out.

If someone was doing this to the cards I buy (early 70's PSA 9's), I would be disgusted.

BTW, PSA pooffed the thread over there. Someone posted a really nice pair of photos showing both cards side by side. Can someone do that here within the thread?

[HRBAKER]

And who said SGC cards wouldn't cross to PSA?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

++This. I guess I see this as black and white. It's altered, period. don't care if it's chemicals or water. But this is not my world of buying, so can't proclaim to know how it affects the market.

I don't see how this can be good for the hobby. It has all the appearances of fraud and deception. Heck, even PSA can't figure it out.

If someone was doing this to the cards I buy (early 70's PSA 9's), I would be disgusted.

BTW, PSA pooffed the thread over there. Someone posted a really nice pair of photos showing both cards side by side. Can someone do that here within the thread?

[Beastmode]

Thanks

[vintagetoppsguy]

As long as there are no long term effects to the card, I have no problem with it. And, until someone can prove it was more than just a soaking in water (which is acceptable in our hobby), then you're just making assumptions. That said, I do think the grade is a little generous. Looks more like a 6 to me.

Oh, and to blame PWCC for selling it just shows you have an axe to grind wirh Brent.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

As long as there are no long term effects to the card, I have no problem with it. And, until someone can prove it was more than just a soaking in water (which is acceptable in our hobby), then you're just making assumptions. That said, I do think the grade is a little generous. Looks more like a 6 to me.

Oh, and to blame PWCC for selling it just shows you have an axe to grind wirh Brent.

On a card whose appearance has changed that much, and in the manner it has changed, what is your basis for assigning the burden of proof to those who believe more than water is involved? From my perspective the burden is on those who claim it's only water.

[D. Bergin]

I don't see anything wrong with soaking cards and other stuff out of scrapbooks and albums with water. I've done it myself many times, though not with anything expensive.

If it doesn't harm the card, and releases it from it's jail. No harm, no foul.

THAT, is not a product of water restoration, distilled or otherwise. The first time, in the REA auction. Yes. No biggie.

To bump it up to a (7)? You could soak an old piece of paper/cardboard with that much toning for days, and it wouldn't come out that clean......and even if it did, the paper would have soaked too much water into it's fibers for too long to recover to it's original state. Like stretching the rubber band in your underwear for too long.

Just my opinion, but I think it's pretty "Cut & Dry"

See what I did there?

[irv]

Backs.

Personally, I am not really sure what to think of all this?
One could use various scenarios to justify either case, but with that being said, I believe there are unwritten rules (Not that any rules really technically exist anyways, that I'm aware of?) within the hobby that say anything more than a water soaking, is a fake, forgery or altered card.

I do agree, this card is not a 7, considering those still visible marks on the card, but like a lot of things I have seen from PSA in my relatively short time here, is the fact, when you think you have this grading thing down pretty good, another wrench is thrown into the mix.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My guess is that this card has had significant chemical intervention, in which case it is not a "small small" matter as Brent suggests. I hope I am wrong.

I have no idea, but to just throw out "significant chemical intervention" is a bit reckless in my view. Heck, who knows, maybe distilled water did it.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have no idea, but to just throw out "significant chemical intervention" is a bit reckless in my view. Heck, who knows, maybe distilled water did it.

Water is still a chemical

[Leon]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Water is still a chemical

Ok, got me there. But most collectors as you well know, in polls done on this board, have not had the same disdain for water as they have for anything else. And I agree with that sentiment.

[Peter_Spaeth]

According to someone whose opinion I respect highly, the distilled water thing is wishful thinking.

"Your post about the card is essentially correct. It has undoubtedly been submerged in a caustic chemical such as bleach in order to remove the toning and obscure the lighter, untoned areas on the front and back. The type of chemical that has been added has altered the chemical composition of the card and will likely cause the fibers in the cardboard to degrade over time."

This person also believes improvement was made to the corners, based on his close examination of the respective scans.

[Leon]

Just as reckless as your other post. Who is the person? And I think your person is entirely wrong too.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

According to someone whose opinion I respect highly, the distilled water thing is wishful thinking.

"Your post about the card is essentially correct. It has undoubtedly been submerged in a caustic chemical such as bleach in order to remove the toning and obscure the lighter, untoned areas on the front and back. The type of chemical that has been added has altered the chemical composition of the card and will likely cause the fibers in the cardboard to degrade over time."

This person also believes improvement was made to the corners, based on his close examination of the respective scans.

[orly57]

If it will cause long-term deterioration of the card, this goes from a harmless fix, to a full-blown scam.

[Neal]

.