2012 Standard Catalog For Vintage Only

[canjond]

I just got an email that there will be a 2012 Standard Catalog for vintage cards only. Can anyone confirm? This would be great news.

Edited to add: Seems that it is so:

http://www.amazon.com/2012-Standard-...1188801&sr=8-5

[rdwyer]

I rather have the DVD. I would then put the pdf on my iphone.

[Bob Lemke]

The 2012 Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards will, indeed, be limited to pre-1981 only. We're going to bring back many of the peripheral issues, non-card issues, etc., that had to be dropped over the years.

Looking like about 700 pages.

[andybecker]

that's great news!!!

quick question Bob.....will there be a post-1981 eddition also?

[canjond]

Good to hear Bob - very happy about this!

Awesome!

[jbsports33]

Great news!!!!

[Jewish-collector]

That news deserves this:

[JLange]

This is fantastic news! I can't wait until this ships! Thank you for making this a reality, Bob!

[Rich Klein]

If I remember Bob saying correctly; the PG staff was let go earlier this year and thus the only thing F&W can do is a vintage guide with Bob as the editor. Keeping up with the new stuff is a full time job in itself.

Rich

[mintacular]

quick question Bob.....will there be a post-1981 eddition also?

Yes, the post 81 section is only 1 page with 1 word: "worthless"...whammy!

[bcbgcbrcb]

I assume that he cost will be lower?

[Rich Klein]

PhiL

Check on the link provided in the OP. The retail cost is $29.99

Rich

[Bob Lemke]

There will be NO 1981+ edition.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

There will be NO 1981+ edition.

About time!!!

Larry

[Rich Klein]

Don't be so sure that just a pre-1981 price guide at $29.95 is a permanent answer. Suprisiingly; I would have kept the price point at $44.95 or 49.95 because I would know that my audience is less than it was before and most of the people who care about vintage should be able to afford that price point.

I have a suspeiciion that F&W will find the audience more limited than they believe and I would be concerned about the sales of this book going forward.

The good news is that for F&W the book is a known title with a long history; but a standard catalog that stops in 1980 is not complete any more

My guesstimation is that for this year --- sales will be OK but will start to dwindle in future years as the materials that can be added are reasonably small.

In addition; when Krause back in the boom days of the hobby tried a "vintage" only price guide; the sales were so bad that they never tried another copy of that book.

My guesstimation is that they will sell between 1500 and 2500 copies of that book (I hope I'm wrong for their sake).

I do not know if "we" are the target audience for such a book. If so, and if F&W is happy with that type of sales -- then the SC has a nice future. But if not; we may be looking at the swan song.

Remember when you are eliminating the modern collectior; you are eliminating the vast majority of potential buyers

Regards
Rich

[Rich Klein]

If you really belive all the post-1980 cards are worthless; I'll be happy to take any and all of them off your hands. Just ship them to me ----- you can pay for that as well

Rich

[Bob Lemke]

There's a lot of truth in what Rich said. Most copies of the Standard Catalog (10,000+) in recent years were sold to the "public" rather than within the hobby.

One of the book's major customers, Borders, is gone.

I think F+W sees what has happened to their periodicals in the sports collectibles in the past year -- Tuff Stuff gone, SCD's frequency halved -- and is offering the vintage-only SCBC as a Hail Mary pass, perhaps even as a transition from an ink-on-paper catalog to a DVD or other electronic format.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Just pre-ordered a copy. Thank you Mr Lemke

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

Just pre-ordered a copy. Thank you Mr Lemke

As did I. Thanks Bob and ignore the whining about the book only going through 1980. Collectors of pre-war have begged for a book like this for years and now that one is available we need to support it.

[autograf]

will it include a CD/PDF version?

[hangman62]

Awesome, thats what vintage collectors want
I just picked up the 2011 edition..and tore the back 3/4 of the book out and chucked it. Incredible just how many cards from 81 and up are out there...

[Jewish-collector]

Didn't someone sometime ago mention that the bulk of the sales of the previous Standard Catalog books were from collectors who tore out the vintage material portion of the book because they only purchased the book for the new info ?

[Rich Klein]

1) Alan -- that is correct for a majority of users of this board as well as show dealers; but as I pointed out and Bob agreed; the vast majorities of users of this book are not like you and me but of the more modern realm.

(I also pointed out that I hope F&W has a major success with this book -- but based on MY experience at Beckett with the Almanac I have some serious doubts that there will be large amounts of monies made at $29.95. I would have kept the price point where it was and threw in everything with the kitchen sink when it came to pre-1981 materials.)

2) I think Bob has it correct; this may be the last print edition before next year going to a completly on-line version. No one loves print more than I do; but print is no longer part of our future. Bob correctly pointed out the difficulties of the Borders chain.

Yes, I will buy a book -- but to keep this book alive -- be prepared to pay more monies in the future.

Rich

[slidekellyslide]

Does it include the pre-1981 minor league card section?

[paul]

I can't wait to see all the good stuff Bob has added back in.

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by canjond

I just got an email that...

Jon,
Was there a particular email list / RSS feed that you were on that included this news? I enjoy helpful mailing lists...

I just pre-ordered my copy. Thanks for the heads up.
Steve

[RobertGT]

There is no question the book is a fantastic reference material, and it has helped me identify many unknown card issues over the years. But the real problem, I think, that is killing off these publications and making them more irrelevant (even more true of Beckett) is that the prices quoted are so far removed from reality that it's to the point of misleading. In some cases, especially with modern cards, even the low prices are a complete joke.

If I need to know what something is selling for, I turn to eBay completed sales and VCP. I often wonder whether any of this readily available data is used as basis for the price guides.

[steve B]

few guides can ever be accurate on prices. There are so many things that influence a final price. Venue, seller reputation, recent publicity(Or old publicity) percieved condition, even the timing of the sale- all of them affect the price. For more common modern stuff it's easy to get close, for vintage it's almost impossible.

Even for graded cards. VCP can track sales, but you have to dig deeper to see if the lower ones were weak for the grade.

Stamp and coin catalogs are usually close, but some of them have well over a century in publication. And even then actual sales won't match if the item isn't common. Stamps that are average condition typically go for half of the catalog value. Less common but nicer ones a dealer will hold out for more. In one group I collect I've seen stuff sell for anywhere from 10% of catalog to a bit over 200% of catalog. (Usually it seems as if that's determined on wether I've bid or not)

Steve B

[martyogelvie]

Good news indeed.
I don't use the Guide for pricing as much as I do for indentifying a card and cataloging cards

[Jewish-collector]

They need to emphasize that it is an identification guide, NOT a price guide.

[Rich Klein]

You'd sell very few copies -- even if prices are just a baseline

Rich

[ktimm]

Book is now available through amazon.

[christopher.herman]

+1. Just ordered a copy.

[WWGjohn]

Just ordered mine.

John

[alanu]

Woohoo, but never underestimate the power of the post 1981 market. It will be interesting to see if sales will be down... or maybe even up since this is the first one without the newer stuff.

[Bigb13]

Will there be more prices on error cards? Rob

[DJR]

.

[steve B]

I'm not the biggest fan of the current intellectual property laws, but how does Google get away with disregarding them entirely? If I put 15% of a copyrighted work on a website I'd be forced to remove it almost immediately.

The standard catalog isn't the only hobby type book they've done this with, some entirely scanned and available even while in print. (Plus one that was made available through googlebooks by the author)

Steve B

[DJR]

.

[T206.org]

Way cool - just ordered my copy! I wonder if any new T206 errors made it in this printing?

[Drew6]

Just ordered my copy.

[campyfan39]

just bought mine!

[SteveMitchell]

Me, too - Thanks for the heads-up!

[mrmopar]

I am a collector who appreciates everything, new and old. One question I would have about the survival chances of a vintage only book is how much "new" stuff hits those books in a year period? Who is going to buy a copy each year, if it's updated that often?

I would only pick up one of the large catalogs every couple of years, because at close to $50, it didn't seem like much was new other than adding another year of new issues. Often I would buy a slightly older copy for much less, because I didn't need the brand new sets, so an old copy was fine. In this regard, I was growing tired of the books, because the new cards were taking up so much space with their endless tiers of parallels and inserts and the print was shrinking fast.

I may pick one of these up if the content is significantly greater than what is contained in one of the old guides.

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

1) Alan -- that is correct for a majority of users of this board as well as show dealers; but as I pointed out and Bob agreed; the vast majorities of users of this book are not like you and me but of the more modern realm.

(I also pointed out that I hope F&W has a major success with this book -- but based on MY experience at Beckett with the Almanac I have some serious doubts that there will be large amounts of monies made at $29.95. I would have kept the price point where it was and threw in everything with the kitchen sink when it came to pre-1981 materials.)

2) I think Bob has it correct; this may be the last print edition before next year going to a completly on-line version. No one loves print more than I do; but print is no longer part of our future. Bob correctly pointed out the difficulties of the Borders chain.

Yes, I will buy a book -- but to keep this book alive -- be prepared to pay more monies in the future.

Rich

[bcbgcbrcb]

Just ordered my copy. Thanks for the heads-up, guys.

[buymycards]

Can't wait to get it! I did enjoy the expanded modern section of the 2011 catalog, which was very helpful with pricing my ebay items, but I am looking forward to the 2012 vintage catalog.

Rick