Beware Carterscards2006

[nolemmings]

This is simply a headsup to anyone dealing with carterscards2006 on ebay-- a seller which has sold tens of thousands of dollars worth of cards this month alone. They state that they will not accept returns. Make of that what you will and for what its worth, their descriptions do not state that the card is sold as is.

I paid $1025 for this card:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

SGC has determined that the card is trimmed. I requested a refund from seller, and later had to proceed through ebay. Seller has contested my claim for buyer protection through paypal, which stated that card is not as described, and that it is worth about 10% or less of what was paid since it is altered. Card also was likely not "very early submission to GAI", as represented.

Seller brags about customer service, but has not even had the guts to respond to my request for refund before paypal got involved, nor since. He has just asked paypal to make a decision.

He will get a negative from me, regardless of outcome, for his utter lack of response or explanation. I will bitch about him here as long as I wish as well. I will sue him if I do not get a refund, and he can come to Arizona to defend. Yes I am aware that he said no refunds--I don't care. The card is altered, and he can stand on his reputation if he chooses, but he should make it right. I hope he does defend here, as I believe there is a chance he knew or should have known of the card's alteration, and if so, I will make it that much worse for him.

Not really looking for sympathy here and may not get any--just wanted to vent. Also thought you'd like to know a little about this seller if you were thinking of bidding on his auctions. BTW, he was also the seller of the T222 Alexander that is the subject of a recent thread.

[rhettyeakley]

Todd,I'm certainly not trying to be a pain in the a** or anything but the item stated "No returns" which essentially neans AS IS. I'm not 100% sure were I in his position and had I been the seller of this card if I'd be willing to issue a refund. You did pay a decent amount for the card and I'd definitely try to resubmit as it appears to measure correctly to me (and obviously to you as well when you bid on it). I've had numerous positive transaction with both you and the ebay seller in the past.

-Rhett

[ChiefBenderForever]

Hope it works out for you Todd, seller should respond and refund since you are not happy and have reason not to be but obviously they are not. Since they won't hopefully paypal will for you. I don't understand how sellers feel they can force a customer to keep something they are completely unhappy with it is such good business !!

[nolemmings]

You bought a M101-5 Stengel graded a GAI 7.5 and that's what you got

Not really--- I got a m101-4 Stengel.

Thanks Peter--so it looks like there may be a shiller here too. 97% of his bids on nearly 100 items are on this guy's auctions, hmmmmmm.

[vintagecpa]

Todd, just out of curiosity, why do you suspect it might not be an early GAI graded card?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Not really--- I got a m101-4 Stengel.

I don't know anything about this particular issue, so I looked it up. I see what you're talking about. The cards look very similar, but are indeed different. Therefore, I believe you do have a case for a SNAD since you did not get the card that was listed in the title/description. Good luck!

[JamesGallo]

The bottom edge looks to have a slated cut.

IMO I just would not buy a GAI card without seeing it in person. I knwo there are a lot of people that respected there head grader but the fact of the matter is I hear more problems then anything else about cards in those holders.

Also as far as I can tell the "no returns" line on ebay is total crap. Paypal and or ebay can force you to accept a return, but it may take a while and lots of paper work. I do not know how they will handle this as the card is no longer in the same state is was sold in (assuming SGC cracked it) so that could be an issue.

You are also dealing with one grading company vs another and that could also be a snag. Send it to PSA and hope it gets a grade :-D

James G

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't really see where the seller is in the wrong. You bought a M101-5 Stengel graded a GAI 7.5 and that's what you got. One company says it is trimmed, one says it is not. I tend to side with SGC, but who really knows?

If I were the seller in this case, I would refund your money because it is the right thing to do. However, the seller is not obligated to do so if they so choose because he delivered exactly what you bought and a SNAD does not apply in this case.

Good luck!

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback


AND

Bidder Information
Bidder: s***n( 6 )
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: Item Title: 1914 T222 Fatima GROVER ALEXANDER Graded PSA 5 EX
Bids on this item: 2
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 131
Items bid on: 92
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 97%
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

[DICKTOWLE]

Trying to understand, the seller bought a collection of cards, this one was a GAI holder and you broke it out and sent to SGC, and it came back trimmed. If this was the case, how can you fault the seller of the card- afterall he bought this card as a 7.5 correct in good faith, then sold it in good faith. I believe there is no case ?,.

[jb217676]

My only beef with Carterscards2006 is they block Canadian bidders. I hate sellers that do that!

[ctownboy]

Mr. Towle,

I disagree.

If the buyer bought the card as a GAI 7.5, sent it off and it came back an SGC 60 (or PSA 6 or whatever) then I would say tough nookums (as I do about the Banks card above).

However, if the card went out as a GAI 7.5 and came back as an SGC "A" because of trimming then I think there is a huge problem.

To me, there shouldn't be much difference between one grade (a 6 to a 7 or a 7 to a 6). Differences like that can be chalked up to experience and expertise of the grader, how many cards they have graded that day, etc, etc, etc. However, the difference between a card being graded a 7.5 (based on it being a complete card) and it being graded an "A" (because it has been trimmed) is two entirely different things.

If you bought a slightly used, late model Ferrari for $200,000 dollars (totally expecting it to have a 500 horsepower Ferrari engine in it for that price) and after receiving the car find it has a 300 horsepower Mustang engine under the hood, would YOU be happy? I wouldn't be and that is because the item I received was materially different then what I paid my money for and what I had expected to receive.

Doesn't matter if I am a Ferrari expert or not in this case.

Now, in my hypothetical situation, if my Ferrari mechanic says the car has the proper Ferrari engine but should have red valve covers instead of the blue ones currently on it, then I don't really have a basis for complaing too much.

In this case, the seller is putting their faith in GAI (from what I have read so far, not really a good idea). The faith that GAI could tell the difference between a complete, intact card and a trimmed card. When the buyer sent it off to SGC and they said the card was trimmed, then the buyer wants his money back based on what he received was not what he paid for. Should the buyer have been leery of a GAI card? Yes and that is why he sent it off for a second opinion (from a company he trusts more than GAI.

For those who don't like this then I will ask you a question. How many of you have bought cards graded by GAI or PRO (for far less than what they would have sold for if they were in an SGC or PSA slab and had the same grade) because you thought they were OK? How many of you then sent the cards to SGC or PSA and had them come back slabbed with a similiar grade (as to what GAI or PRO had graded them)?

If any of you have done this, have YOU refunded the profit you made from selling those cards (if you have sold them) to the seller you bought them from? I mean, THEY put their faith in GAI or PRO (by keeping them in their slabs instead of trying to cross them over) and were hurt because of those companies reputations. So, if you took advantage of this then shouldn't you refund some or all of the profit you made?

David

[pgellis]

I have to disagree with the above "Ferrari Analogy".

If you want to use your Ferrari analogy, it would be analogous to say that the seller of the Ferrari's mechanic says that it has a 500 horsepower engine and when you, the buyer, take it to your mechanic, your mechanic says it has a 300 horsepower engine. It comes down to which mechanic is right? Just like is it GAI or SGC?

Also, to go a little further you would have to prove that the seller knew it only had a 300 horsepower engine (if that is what is concluded) in the first place.

[bobbyw8469]

Ctownboy - I understand your side of the argument. I really do. The problem lies now in that (as some other poster before me stated beautifully), all sellers of GAI graded cards will be in a NO WIN situation. GAI cards sell for a tiny fraction of their SGC/PSA counterparts. If the cards cross, the buyer makes out like a bandit. He gets a card in a "supposedly" superior grading service case for a small fraction of the true amount. That amount could total thousands of dollars (like the OP's card in question). If the cards don't cross, then all they have to do is return it for a full refund (even though technically GAI is on the "approved 3rd part grader" list that Ebay has on file. It is a 100% reward situation with 0% risk for the buyer. That being said, why on god's green earth would ANY seller ever sell a GAI graded card ever again!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by DICKTOWLE

Trying to understand, the seller bought a collection of cards, this one was a GAI holder and you broke it out and sent to SGC, and it came back trimmed. If this was the case, how can you fault the seller of the card- afterall he bought this card as a 7.5 correct in good faith, then sold it in good faith. I believe there is no case ?,.

No, Dick. That's NOT correct. No one broke tha GAI card out of the holder. It went to SGC in the GAI holder. They looked at it, thought it may show evidence of trim, and returned it without busting it out.

Why is this fact so hard for anyone to understand?

[CMIZ5290]

Maybe todd should send it in to pro graders, he might get back a gem mint 10

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

No, Dick. That's NOT correct. No one broke tha GAI card out of the holder. It went to SGC in the GAI holder. They looked at it, thought it may show evidence of trim, and returned it without busting it out.

Why is this fact so hard for anyone to understand?

Our country's failing public-education system? Not enough emphasis placed on reading comprehension? Too many big words?

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's Schultz's fault, he's very inarticulate, even for a lawyer.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Our country's failing public-education system? Not enough emphasis placed on reading comprehension? Too many big words?

HUH? What's that mean?

(No. Realy. What's it supposed to mean?)

[CMIZ5290]

I know one thing, i am going to get hot and heavy into buying gai, bvg, and pro graded t206s at ridiculous prices. I am then going to submit them to psa or sgc to at least try and cross them to a comparable grade. If they say evidence of trimming or alteration, i will promptly return them to the poor seller for a full refund. After collecting t206s for over 15 years, i have found a new, nothing-to-lose system. Thank you to all on this thread who have made me see the light, and the dollar$.

[Jacklitsch]

Please put me on your blocked bidder list just in case I have a senior moment.

Ebay ID: Jacklitsch