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  #1  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:41 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Default Dizzy Dean Secretarial--Heritage Auctions

I don't have a Heritage account, but someone may want to inform Heritage that the below "Dizzy Dean" (slabbed by PSA) is a fairly common secretarial.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515



DizzyDeanSec-1.JPG

DizzyDeanSec-3.jpg
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2019, 04:01 PM
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Nice catch, Chris...

And it realized over $5K!
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2019, 04:03 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
Nice catch, Chris...

And it realized over $5K!
Thank you, Mark. Just lucky.

I'm curious who over at PSA authenticated this.
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  #4  
Old 08-19-2019, 10:49 PM
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Duluth Eskimo Duluth Eskimo is offline
Ja.son Hugh.es
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Hopefully you save someone some money with that. That is pretty blatantly secretarial.
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:14 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
Nice catch, Chris...

And it realized over $5K!
I don't have an account....

Is that really what it sold for?
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  #6  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:30 PM
BillyCox3 BillyCox3 is offline
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Never understood how this could be such a rarity in light of how Dean literally had twice as long to sign the B&W plaques as he did their gold counterparts. The gold plaque PCs are common and can be had for next to nothing. One hypothesis is that collectors would mail the B&W to Dean and a pre-signed gold version was sent in its place (some signed by Diz himself, others by Pat Dean). Through talking to collectors who received gold plaques in-person from Dean, they were indeed pre-signed, and Mrs. Dean had in fact signed some of those in advance!

Last edited by BillyCox3; 08-19-2019 at 11:35 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2019, 03:05 AM
jad22 jad22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
I don't have an account....

Is that really what it sold for?
They had one go for 20 grand a while back. Also, everyone knows Dean plaques (B&W) are highly collected and as such should not be drone reviewed.

Last edited by jad22; 08-20-2019 at 03:07 AM.
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2019, 03:34 PM
keithsky keithsky is offline
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Nice catch Chris. Even if someone would have contacted Heritage they wouldn't have pulled it in my opinion. Others on here have informed them over the years about questionable items and they never pull any of it. I think they feel they know more than anyone else so they don't like others telling them they are wrong. Especially if it has the famous PSA label on it and I say that sarcasticly
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2019, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
I don't have an account....

Is that really what it sold for?
Yup... $5,040 to be exact.

Hopefully, the "winner" didn't have to pay sales tax on top of that!
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  #10  
Old 08-20-2019, 04:13 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
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This is why it it so hard to pull the trigger on big ticket Autographed items. I would love a Ruth but cannot get over the fact that I cannot trust the TPA's to get it right. And despite collecting for almost 5 decades autographs are not my strength. But I have owned a few Dizzy Dean signatures and know the one in the OP is not Dizzy. And I have to believe that someone at Heritage knows it to.
Jonathan Sterling
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  #11  
Old 08-20-2019, 07:25 PM
Baseball Fan Baseball Fan is offline
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I've been told they have been made aware of this situation.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2019, 08:29 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Thank you guys.

I am sure Heritage will do the right thing.
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2019, 05:57 PM
ruth-gehrig ruth-gehrig is offline
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The right thing couldn't possibly be offering it as a buy it now because it didnt sell at auction.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2019, 02:26 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig View Post
The right thing couldn't possibly be offering it as a buy it now because it didnt sell at auction.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515
Very disappointing that it is still on their site.
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2019, 11:03 AM
johnts1 johnts1 is offline
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Bravo Chris. I was always under the impression that PSA was pretty tight when it came to the sports autographs. I'll tell you something else, I'm delighted that there are a few groups out there, like this one who really cares and has a passion for authenticity. I'd trust you and the rest of you guys before I trust any TPA. Thank you.

Last edited by johnts1; 08-30-2019 at 06:13 PM.
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  #16  
Old 08-28-2019, 05:20 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnts1 View Post
Bravo Chris. I was always under the impression that PSA was pretty tight when it came to the sports autographs. I'll tell you something else, I'm delighted that there are a few groups out there, like this one who really cares and has a passion for authenticity. I'd trust Chris and the rest of you guys before I trust any TPA. Thank you.
I've always been upfront about the fact that I am a supporter of the TPA's, but I would have thought that at least one of their authenticators would have immediately recognized this as a common sec.
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  #17  
Old 08-31-2019, 09:12 AM
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Maybe this is an older cert? Because if you can't trust the baseball dealers currently at psa with a dean secretarial (their specialty) what can you trust them with anymore? Just heard alot of bad things with them recently. I know some members here know them personally, what's the scoop?

Like Chris I'm a fan of tpa, I want them to succeed not fail. SGC has already folded I want as many (good) options/opinions as possible.
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2019, 06:29 PM
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Duluth Eskimo Duluth Eskimo is offline
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It’s just a mistake. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn’t make it any better, but that’s what it is. They don’t seem to overlook things like this when I have sent items to them. In fact, they have declined a number of items that were authentic. That is why it is tough to do business with them. They make easy mistakes like this, yet kick items that are simple and authentic. Yet keep your submission fee.

Last edited by Duluth Eskimo; 08-31-2019 at 06:32 PM.
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  #19  
Old 08-31-2019, 08:03 PM
ruth-gehrig ruth-gehrig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
Very disappointing that it is still on their site.
Surprised more people dont think the same thing
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  #20  
Old 08-31-2019, 10:48 PM
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I referred to the mistake by PSA. Obviously disappointing that HA wouldn’t pull the item when it is blatantly obvious there’s an issue. Although, look at some of the people they have hired.
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  #21  
Old 09-01-2019, 10:47 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Unfortunately this isn't a "mistake."

Simply put; evidently, no one at PSA had knowledge of this Dizzy Dean sec-signed plaque and that's troublesome.
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  #22  
Old 09-01-2019, 11:26 AM
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earlywynnfan earlywynnfan is offline
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How about this one? McNeal was known to be unable to sign for years, so he used a stamp.

Even if somebody at PSA wasn't as versed on NL autos, can't you clearly see it's a stamp???
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  #23  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:28 AM
tha-rock tha-rock is offline
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Like a lot of you I have a love-hate relationship with TPA's, but like has said, I want them to succeed. I have invested a ton on money on their certification and when you try to do business in a world based on trust such as the autograph hobby/business is, the TPAs word carries a lot of weight. If there was a total breakdown in the confidence of the buying public of TPA's judgement, then let's face it- our collections would lose most of their value and all that money we spent on certification would have been better spent on something else.

Yes, they make mistakes, and it's unfortunate when they do. Slabbing a rubber stamp autograph is a mistake. And I agree it is frustrating when they fail items you know to be good and you send it to another TPA who slabs it as genuine. I have had that happen many times and it has been costly. TPAs should use better quality control, because they have as much at stake in this as we do. If the buying public loses confidence, then their business suffers. I think the hobby has put too much pressure on TPAs and they have not kept pace. Do you recall what the TPA turn around time on most autograph submissions used to be? And what is it now? There is too much work for them and they have not hired enough people or developed the infrastructure to deal with the volume. And when that happens, something suffers, and I fear it is quality of work. That is reflected in wrong calls and mistakes. I hope that changes.
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  #24  
Old 09-02-2019, 02:58 PM
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earlywynnfan earlywynnfan is offline
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I understand mistakes. I make plenty of them. Slabbing a rubber stamp is ineptitude.

So is asking me who the signature was on the ball, then putting the hologram on for me. (JSA)

So is rejecting an auto, having someone they've never heard of call them out of the blue -- me -- explaining why it's real, and they say OK, send it back, we'll approve it. (PSA)

The above track record is out of my three (3!) actual interactions with the TPAs.

Ken
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  #25  
Old 09-02-2019, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlywynnfan View Post
I understand mistakes. I make plenty of them. Slabbing a rubber stamp is ineptitude.

So is asking me who the signature was on the ball, then putting the hologram on for me. (JSA)

So is rejecting an auto, having someone they've never heard of call them out of the blue -- me -- explaining why it's real, and they say OK, send it back, we'll approve it. (PSA)

The above track record is out of my three (3!) actual interactions with the TPAs.

Ken
Well it could be worse...

You could be relying on PSA for Card grading instead of autographs. At least their current crop of autograph authenticators have exhibited a decent level of competence throughout the years.
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