Grignon player query

[Michael Peich]

I recently acquired this Grignon postcard, and it is alleged to have been written by Frank Schulte. The remarks on the card would suggest a player had written it. And the reference to "today Saturday" corresponds with the postmark date, Oct. 12, 1907 (the -2 is partly obscured, but is a -2), which was the day/date of the series clinching game #5 for the Cubs.

I asked the opinions of three autograph experts (two autograph dealers, one early Chicago expert/dealer) at the Valley Forge Show. Two of the three felt it was Schulte's signature (not Frank Chance btw, the only other -F on the team), and the other dealer (a well known autograph dealer) was rude, dismissive, and didn't offer an opinion (I'll keep him anonymous, but his initials are the same letter. He'll never get any business from me.) BTW, when I bought the card I did not pay an extra premium for the alleged Schulte connection.

Can anyone post a Schulte handwritten note/letter that will allow me to compare the writing? Many thanks, and in the meantime enjoy the card.

Cheers, Mike

PS--Leon: I hope it's okay to post in both the card and memorabilia forum. If not take the post down from the card section.

[steve B]

You might want to check a few other players, the letter looks more like a J to me. Making Jimmy Sheckard a good candidate.

Neither did much in game 5, Schulte had a hit and an error, Scheckard 0 for 4 and I think not even a putout.

Steve B

[Jacklitsch]

Frank Chance died and is buried in Los Angeles if that means anything.

[Jacklitsch]

[Michael Peich]

Thanks, Steve, and I particularly appreciate the scan of the Chance signature on his 206 portrait. I knew he was buried in Los Angeles, and also that he was a native Californian. However, when looking at his -F it doesn't seem to be the same as the -F of the correspondent on my Grignon. There has been a lot of discussion of the card over on the Memorabilia side of the Board, and it seems as though this was probably some random fan who helped root his team on to the series victory. Who knows?
But, it is an interesting card for the fact that it was postmarked on the day they won the series. And, as a footnote to the Chance connection, Frank did not play in Game five.

Cheers, Mike

[FrankWakefield]

That looks more like a "J" to me than anything else.

The cancellation is odd. The most significant circle date stamp seems to show a 10pm time. It is a bit difficult to read because of underlying print. The circle date stamp on the right edge has a 9 visible, which would be 9pm ??? That post card would not have received a machine cancellation for delivery. The CDS would have been at the time of posting.

I think the writing is contemporary with the posting of the card. But that could have been added weeks, months, or even a few years later. Again, it looks contemporary to me.

I do think the penciled labeling is incorrect. I don't think that's an "F", it looks like a "J".

[steve B]

The cancel is an easy one. I collect stamps as well, and this sort of thing is pretty common.

Chicago was a very busy post office. Some offices back then were open late, and on sundays and holidays. Cancelling would be the first thing done and they tried to do it as close to the time of a card or letters arrival at the post office. In a small town it was usually cancelled immediately at the counter.

In a busy office like Chicago the mail would have been processed through a cancelling machine in batches. The machine used here was hand loaded, unlike the ones of today that do their own arranging of the mail. On the first pass through the machine during the 9:00 hour the cancel mised the stamp. The postcard was probably between a couple letters and didn't get lined up correctly.

The guy sorting the mail by destination would have noticed this and held the card out to be recancelled. They were very conscious of stamps potentially being reused.

The recancelling stack would ahve been collected and brought to the canceller again, and recancelled. In this case during the 10:00 hour.

The 8 in the cancel is the number of the machine, Chicago had a lot of cancelling machines, probably more than 20.

Steve B

[Michael Peich]

Steve,

Thank you for sharing your encyclopedic knowledge. You've given all of us who collect postcards invaluable information.

Frank--I think it is a contemporary hand, i.e., 1907, but I am not certain if that's a -J. If it were, it could be a host of players: Johnny Evers, Joe Tinker, Johnny Kling, Jimmy Slagle, or the postcard's image, Jimmy Sheckard. The best test would be to see signatures by all five.

Thanks again to all for your input.

Cheers, Mike

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

As we discussed on the memorabilia side, the handwriting/initial doesn't appear to match any of the potential "F's" or "J's" on the 1907 roster.

I've never been too fond of the Chance signature on that T206 and know I'm not alone in that opinion. How it was authenticated is beyond me.

[oskafagus]

Does that say "I helped to take all the spots out of the Tigers today"? I think you can eliminate as the writer anyone who had ever seen a tiger. Cool post card.