Earliest Collectibles of Baseball Hall of Famers

[cwazzy]

GREAT thread! Does anyone have a scan of the 1943 Mexican League PC featuring Roy Campanella? And does anyone know how much it would likely sell for and where I could possibly get my hands on one? Thanks!

[Andy Sandler]

Originally Posted by triwak

Andy, have you ever encountered any photos/memorabilia/cards of Negro Leaguer and HOFer Bill (Willie) Foster? After his playing days, he coached baseball at his alma mater, Alcorn State College, from 1960-77. I've always wondered if there were any team issues picturing him. Thanks ~ Ken

Hi Ken! No, I have not had any from Alcorn State during those years but I did have an early Vermont yearbook that pictured the Cuban X Giants who the college team was playing.
Thanks, Andy

[bcbgcbrcb]

Chris:

Not for sale but here is a scan. Campanella is standing in the back row, second from the right.

[cwazzy]

Thanks, Phil! Fruitless PM sent. LOL

[Scott Garner]

Hi Phil,

Great job & what a project- wow!! Sorry I'm late to the game commenting here, but I'm a lurker on all categories but sports memorabilia on net54, but happened to pick up on your thread.

FYI, Nolan's first press photo was from September, 1966, not 1967. The photo ran in the Sporting News coverage over Mets prospects Nolan Ryan and Shaun Fitzmaurice.

I hope this helps. BTW, I am an advanced Nolan Ryan collector of 39 years.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Hey, Scott:

I appreciate your input regarding Nolan Ryan. Do you have a scan of the 1966 press photo? If you could either post it here or e-mail it to me at vguerrerobb@yahoo.com, I would be happy to update my listing.

Thanks,

Phil

[bcbgcbrcb]

I Just want to get everyone's opinions on something. I am thinking of removing the Broadcasters and Sportswriters from my listing as it does not appear that there is a whole lot of interest in them and that would shorten the list considerably. I have also not been keeping up with updates on these categories as I have discontinued following them myself.

So, what do you think, should they stay or should they go?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

I Just want to get everyone's opinions on something. I am thinking of removing the Broadcasters and Sportswriters from my listing as it does not appear that there is a whole lot of interest in them and that would shorten the list considerably. I have also not been keeping up with updates on these categories as I have discontinued following them myself.

So, what do you think, should they stay or should they go?

I'd keep 'em, BUT separate them. Just give 'em their own category at the end of the list, that way people don't have to shuffle trough all of them if they don't want to. Maybe, put an asterix or something next to the broadcasters and sportswriters who were once players. I'm sure people would still have a little more interest in them..

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Hey, Scott:

I appreciate your input regarding Nolan Ryan. Do you have a scan of the 1966 press photo? If you could either post it here or e-mail it to me at vguerrerobb@yahoo.com, I would be happy to update my listing.

Thanks,

Phil

Hi Phil,

No problem! By the way, this photo and story ran in the September 24, 1966 issue of The Sporting News. Thanks in advance for updating your Ryan info.

[apswann]

I'm a Fisk specialist. Scott Garner told me about this thread, so I figured I would help you with the Fisk entry on your list.

I have dozens of professional photos that pre-date the 1972 Topps card/1972 Red Sox post card including childhood photos, high school, etc.

Fisk's first "professional" team was the Class A, 1968 Waterloo Hawks. Fisk was pictured in the newspaper articles of that time during the season, however I think that this team photo would be the earliest professional Fisk photo. Let me know what you think. This was originally pictured on roster inserts for the team during the first half of the season.

Fisk is in the top row -- Number 38!

Tony Swann
http://www.carltonfisk.com

68waterloo-firsthalfsquad-resized.jpg

[bcbgcbrcb]

Great find, Tony, thank you so much for the input. I have now updated the Fisk entry on my listing.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I'd keep 'em, BUT separate them. Just give 'em their own category at the end of the list, that way people don't have to shuffle trough all of them if they don't want to. Maybe, put an asterix or something next to the broadcasters and sportswriters who were once players. I'm sure people would still have a little more interest in them..

Totally agree with the above. I've included the guys who actually played professionally in my HOF set, so the asterisk is a good idea. Those guys are:

Tim Murnane
Joe Garagiola
Bob Uecker
Jerry Coleman
Tony Kubek

A writer named Milton Richman also apparently had a brief minor league career, but I've never seen a card issue of him. Great work, Phil!

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks for the input, guys. I will go ahead and move the Broadcasters and Sportswriters to a separate section at the end of the listing. Within that separate listing, I will notate with an asterisk, those individuals that Ken mentioned had Major League playing time.

[bcbgcbrcb]

The listing has now been updated to reflect a separate section for the Broadcasters & Sportswriters recognized by the Baseball Hall of Fame.

[h2oya311]

Phil -

I'm not sure if this has already been addressed, but I was searching around and found an 1870 The World Newspaper Woodcut of Candy Cummings graded by BVG. This would certainly pre-date the 1873 Baltimore Team Composite you have listed on this post.

Link to the website where I saw the Cummings card:

http://www.rustywilly.com/largecards...mingsCandy.htm

Thanks again for all your contributions on this site helping all those (myself included) HOF "rookie" card collectors out there - - all of us chasing the impossible dream.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Derek:

Thanks for your input on Candy Cummings. I am very familiar with it as I was the one who originally owned it and had it graded by Beckett.

With this listing, I have tried to stay away from newspaper cut-outs other than the New York Clipper Woodcuts which are catalogued in the SCBC. Any other newspaper images that I have included were full-page images, primarily picturing team composites.

You are correct though that it represents the earliest Candy Cummings professional baseball collectible that I know of.

[h2oya311]

Phil -

Two more questions:

1) Why not include Cal Hubbard's 1934 U1 Diamond Matchbooks collectible of him as a football player?

2) I have seen one earlier card of Judy Johnson, a "Cabinet Photo" sold in an REA auction in 2004:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2004/249.html

I'm not sure if any of these should be updated on "the list" accordingly, but thought I would share them for consideration/comment.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks for the input, Derek.

Regarding Hubbard, I stayed away from football items and strictly focused on his baseball umpiring career. I have actually seen an original 1924 press photo of him in a football uniform but did not include it on my list.

I do recall seeing the Johnson photo before but forgot to include it so I am going to make the update right now.

[slidekellyslide]

I once owned a postcard of the Chillicothe Business College football team from 1920 with Hubbard on it. Hubbard is second from right in the middle row



There is another photo of the CBC team with Hubbard on a website dedicated to famous Missourians.

http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissou...bbardteam.html

[terjung]

Originally Posted by triwak

Totally agree with the above. I've included the guys who actually played professionally in my HOF set, so the asterisk is a good idea. Those guys are:

Tim Murnane
Joe Garagiola
Bob Uecker
Jerry Coleman
Tony Kubek

A writer named Milton Richman also apparently had a brief minor league career, but I've never seen a card issue of him. Great work, Phil!

Don't forget Joe Nuxhall.
...editted to add, I was thinking he was inducted in Cooperstown, but it was only in the Reds HOF. Nevermind.

[andybecker]

Why not include Cal Hubbard's 1934 U1 Diamond Matchbooks collectible of him as a football player?

Hubbard is also in the 1932 Packers Walkers Cleaners.

neither pre-date Dan's very cool ex-postcard

[bcbgcbrcb]

Very cool postcard, Dan!

[Hankphenom]

Phil,
I think the Walter Johnson novelty cutlery postcard photo dates from the 1909 season, not 1907, when both the home and road caps were white. Unless it could be proven that one of the early cards (American Caramel, maybe?) pre-dated it, I would peg the earliest Johnson collectible as the 1908 Sporting Life premium. Is there a postcard of that, also?
Hank Thomas

[bcbgcbrcb]

Hank:

Thank you for your input regarding the earliest Walter Johnson baseball collectible. There has been a lot of speculation that the Novelty Cutlery postcards were issued during 1909 or possibly later as opposed to a 1907, 1908 or 1909 issue date. Kevin Struss, among others, has done extensive research on these and I believe that a stamp cancellation date earlier than 1910 has never been found.

I was not aware that Johnson appeared on the 1908 Washington W601 premium and have never seen one, but I will certainly defer to your knowledge of it. The only other possible 1908 issue for Johnson would be the Rose Company postcard, listed as a 1908-09 issue, not sure if a definitive year can be pinned down on that one.

At this point, I will replace the Novelty Cutlery postcard with the Washington W601. BTW no postcards were issued before or after the single release of 1906-07.

[Hankphenom]

Phil,
I actually owned the 1908 Sporting Life Washington team premium (W601) at one time, but sold it to a cousin some years ago. Curiously, the 1907 premium doesn't have Johnson but does picture Clyde Milan, who joined the team in mid-August, some three weeks AFTER Johnson had arrived from Idaho.
Hank

[bcbgcbrcb]

I know, Hank. I have seen the 1907 and looked for Johnson but he was missing.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Just made a bunch of updates to the list. If anyone has anything that they would like to add, please post it here or e-mail me privately at: vguerrerobb@yahoo.com.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Just made a few new updates to my list, Nellie Fox (c1945 Lancaster team photo), Walter O'Malley (1950 press photo) & Kenesaw Landis (1916 Hartford team cabinet).

Any updates from fellow collectors are always welcome by posting here or you can e-mail me privately at vguerrerobb@yahoo.com if you prefer.

Thanks!

[bcbgcbrcb]

I just updated the list with the two latest HOF'ers, Barry Larkin & Ron Santo.

[Bicem]

What about the Weiser Wonder Walter Johnson? Either the cabinet or postcard (although I have doubts the postcard was actually issued in 1907)?

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=86985

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=68306

[bcbgcbrcb]

Jeff:

Good question, I believe that the cabinet might be original to 1906 or 1907. If I remember correctly, Hank has commented in the past that the postcard was produced at a later date, not before 1908. Maybe Hank will pitch in again regarding the cabinet, for now I am going to make that update to Johnson's earliest image.

Thanks for the info!

[triwak]

As you probably know Phil, Tim McCarver just won the broadcaster's award.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks, Ken, I did read that but haven't been keeping up with the Broadcasters and Sportswriters as I used to. Does anyone have a recommendation for the earliest collectible picturing McCarver?

[bcbgcbrcb]

I just made a couple of updates to my list. Does anyone else have any qualified updates to consider?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Jeff:

Good question, I believe that the cabinet might be original to 1906 or 1907. If I remember correctly, Hank has commented in the past that the postcard was produced at a later date, not before 1908. Maybe Hank will pitch in again regarding the cabinet, for now I am going to make that update to Johnson's earliest image.

Thanks for the info!

Phil,
The cabinet (WOW!) itself surely dates to 1907. It seems possible that this is the only original copy of this photo in existence, although there could have been more than one printed. I'm assuming that the several variations of the "Weiser Wonder" postcard that have surfaced were made from the original negative, although they could also have been made from this cabinet print, other prints, or copies thereof. This is quite possibly the earliest picture of Johnson in a uniform, although I did uncover a Weiser team picture, also from 1907, in a newspaper. (It's in my book) As a more general proposition, I don't consider original photos to be "collectibles" in the definitional sense, since only one person would ever have the opportunity to own them. Although the cabinet photo here presents similarly to some commercially produced cards, the fact is that it is a personal item, a one-of-a-kind. I have an original photo of Walter in elementary school, at maybe five years old. It could well be the earliest known item relating to him, but it's not a collectible in the commercial sense. The 1908 Sporting Life team premium is the earliest provable Johnson collectible that I know of. Incidentally, in that school photo I mentioned, the right sleeve of Walter's jacket is three or four inches from reaching his wrist--his long right arm already in evidence!

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=86985

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=68306

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thank you for the insight, Hank. The links under your post did not work for me, were they to the team photo?

[Hankphenom]

I copied them from a previous post in the thread, the last one on page 13. Hopefully, they still work. They were for Legendary auctions of the original cabinet of the photo (what a gorgeous item!) and the postcard. I don't know why my cut and paste didn't work.

[clamendo]

Phil -

The press photo aside. Would you consider adding the 1958 Sparky Anderson photo to your list as the first regular issue of HOFer Sparky Anderson? I have recieved many inquiries about it.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Carl:

If the LaPatrie and press photo were from the same year, I would definitely go with yours but since there is a two year gap, I would prefer to leave the list as is. Rest assured, your item is the earliest "catalogued" Sparky collectible even though it is not officially a catalogued set yet, I'm sure it will be in the near future.

[h2oya311]

Phil -

According to http://www.vintageball.com/PlayerPostcards.html there is a 1907 Canton Team PC w/ Rube Marquard (while w/ Central League).

Derek

[bcbgcbrcb]

Good pick-up, Derek, I missed that one but will add it to my list right now.

[bcbgcbrcb]

After much deliberation, I have decided to eliminate the generic individual press photos from my listing. The primary reason for my decision being that it is impossible to tell if each of these was actually produced in the same year that the photo was taken and, even if they were, there are an infinite number of other possible photos which could also exist in the same manner. Not sure yet what I am going to do with the press photos picturing teams but a good possibility of the same thing exists.

[novakjr]

Phil. I see that once you removed the press photos from the list, that Larry Macphail came all the way up to the TCMA pc in '73. Let's roll that one back to 1947, with True Comics #65. Although, I do have a "Paps" cartoon of Macphail from the 30's(can't remember what year exactly), it's ultimately just cut out from a newspaper.

[triwak]

Hey Phil. I just won this RPPC in the most recent Hake's, picturing Willie Wells, that purportedly dates to 1925. The auction listing said that it was the earliest image they had ever heard of. From the Richard Merkin collection. Item #1163, if you wanna look it up.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Nice pick-up, Dave, that's an interesting enough item to put on my list.

You are correct, Ken, nice pick-up on that one BTW the 1925 date is correct based on my research as well. I was in the bidding for a while but ended up focusing my limited resources elsewhere. I will make the update on my list.

[cardaholic]

I recently picked up a 1947 wire photo of Robin Roberts and a college teammate (Martin Hansen) - both are pictured in their MI St. uniforms pointing on a map to the minor league cities they had been assigned to, and the accompanying text reflects their signings by the Phillies (Roberts for $25K and Hansen for $12K) and minor league assignments (Roberts to Wilmington of the Eastern League and Hansen to Terre Haute of the Three-I League).
The back has a date stamp of Dec. 10, 1947.
As a non-team press photo, it's probably outside the list, but IMO it's probably his first collectible identifying his as being in professional baseball.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Nick:

I used to own that one. It doesn't really qualify based on the parameters that I used but definitely one of the very earliest Roberts baseball images.

[bcbgcbrcb]

It's been quite a while since we had any input on this thread. I was checking out the latest auction for Hake's Americana today and came across a pin-back which would match the earliest baseball collectible for Denny Matthews, Frick Award Winner from the KC Royals and a HOF inductee from 2007. Here is a link to the item in case anyone is interested:

https://www.hakes.com/Auction/ItemDe...ATTHEWS-BUTTON

[LincolnVT]

I'd love to see this same list but using the first image of each in their first professional / major league uniform.