Board etiquette

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Posted By: leon

Hey Folks,
Barry and I were talking this morning, as usual, and we both hit on a subject that is very important to the welfare of the board. It concerns board etiquette. The BST pages have some written rules and so does the main forum but the unwritten ones could be as, or more, important than the written ones. Barry said he was speaking with a dinner participant last night and the question came up of "how useful is the board?" in helping with card issues. I think the response was that it "can" be very helpful but all too often someone gets chastised for asking an innocent question. Even I, with somewhat lizard skin, don't ask some questions or make comments, in anticipation of getting flogged. I would only ask that everyone treat everyone else as they want to be treated. Try to be helpful. What comes around goes around. Try to remember to be nice and make this a place where a newbie, or a tenured veteran, feels comfortable asking questions. This should be our relaxation not more stress. It seems like the very best threads are the informative ones that get some of the veterans talking about stuff and having newbies interacting too. It is immensely enjoyable when that happens. Thanks again.....your moderator ....

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Posted By: ScottIngold

We seem to have attracted a bunch of new posters in the past month or so.

Any particular reason ?

Is the board seen as more friendly than in the past ?

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Posted By: leon

To the contrary....it seems as though there are folks that don't ask questions or post for fear of being attacked. I know I can't expect utopia but just wanted to interject my thoughts on the subject. I welcome other opinions and thoughts too...

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Posted By: Scott S

I think you'd find that there are more lurkers than you would ever imagine. I am speaking to you as one. Yes I use the " buy sell trade area " portion of the forum somewhat frequently, but I do refrain from posting here for the exact reasons your speaking of. I love this forum and I visit it many times a day. However, after reading some of the inflammatory, off topic posts over the last six months or so, I think this may be about it as far as my participation goes. Scott

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think at any given time we have people who have been lurking for awhile and would like to make their first post but are simply fearful that their question will be deemed by the "experts" as a stupid one. If they finally get the nerve to post and then get attacked or simply ignored, they will be afraid to come back. I once posted a fairly meaningful question on a Seinfeld chatboard and was immediately attacked because someone posted "this question has been asked before, why do we have to go through it again?" My response was "I only found the site yesterday, so how was I supposed to know that?" That is an example where a rude response was uncalled for. And I was off that chatboard for good.

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Posted By: Dave

I've been posting fairly regularly for about eight or nine months. I for one DO ask the stupid questions...knowing there are a few lurkers who might like to as well. I'll take the brunt of looking like an idiot all day long...fits my character better anyway...he he

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jeez, Barry, there actually exists a Seinfeld chatboard? You mean people sit around all day and wax philosophical about something as mundane as Seinfeld?

Now quick--what did George's parents' house smell like when he brought a girl over and left a condom wrapper on his parents' bed?

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Posted By: Alan

I remember when someone new came on board & there was some controversial discussion (I forget) & Barry S. told him something like, "Welcome to the board - we are all preoccupied with one of the threads, but nice to have you".

That was funny !!!

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Posted By: David Vargha

The new poster child for Net 54 . . .



DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: barrysloate

Kasha and dandruff, kind of a potpourri.

Not only is there a Seinfeld chatboard, but the cursing and insults make this one look like Sunday school. And all they do is complain about every episode. Then why do they watch the show? Why not change the channel?

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Posted By: Mike

In this thread the word "fear" appears as a reason some people lurk, or avoid getting involved. To me it has absolutely nothing to do with fear. I have been a minor poster for a year or so. Like most of you, I am very busy in my life. When I first got on board, I had several regular posters come after me. Questioning my knowledge and my legitimacy. "Who are you anyway?" "You probably don't even know who Burdick was". One of the dumbest things anyone has ever said to me. What kind of question is that anyway? And yes, i know who he was and what he has done for the hobby. I had several e mails sent to me, that were very critical and inflammatory when all i was trying to do was find out if the Polar Cuban cards were legit or not. Some very rude comments. My point is, some of us have been flying under the radar for years, and have as much or more knowledge than anyone in the forum. But somehow newbies are treated like they don't have a brain, or don't know the difference between Bombo Rivera and Buck Weaver. So fear has little to do with it. It has more to do with not wanting to waste time arguing, or dealing with people who have some sort of ax to grind. All I care about is learning more, making more contacts, and enlarging my collection. Pure and simple. I have no interest in talking politics, religion, in here. I have my own friends I can argue with. So lets try and be more civil in here. We will waste less time, and learn more.

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Posted By: martindl

Leon,
Words to live by - "treat others as you would like to be treated".

While this place can be intimidating to the inexperienced, one of the unwritten rules could be 'Use the Search function before you post a question'. That doesn't mean "don't post your question" but you'll likely get better responses if you show you've made some effort to educate yourself before asking.

"How useful is the board?" - extremely. Its a daily learning experience.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Words to live by - "treat others as you would like to be treated".

What if you're a masochist?

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Posted By: barrysloate

God one Jeff- that reminds me of the line "just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean there really isn't someone out there trying to kill you."

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Posted By: martindl

re "What if you're a masochist?"

I think it all works out. If thats the case you only want to be absused, not be an abuser. You'd have to be a Sadomasochist for it to be a problem.

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

.... about board etiquette that can be related to the above issue: answering emails. Leon and I chatted briefly about this the other day as it is one of my pet peeves.

I think once you become a member of the Net 54 community you ought to expect that you might, from time-to-time, exchange emails with other members. Perhaps a newbie, in order to avoid a confrontation on the board, emails a Net 54 member to get advice off line. They should expect a response. If someone sends an email about a posting in the BST thread, they should get a response. It's just common courtesy even if the response is just a simple "Sorry, I can't help" or "Thanks for the tip."

I know that spam blockers can trap this kind of communication initially, which is why I check my spam folder all the time. Whenever I send email to a board member with whom I have never before communicated I always put "Net54" in the subject line so the recipient can easily distinguish my junk email from real junk email!

edited for spelling

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't think I've ever been attacked for asking a question here. And I'm not even sure I've ever seen a newbie treated badly for asking a question. But I must admit I don't like when people answer with "Use the search function". The search function for this site is horrible if you have a query that is more than one word.

I think the board could be more helpful though as there are a lot of people on this board with a ton of knowledge....getting it out of them can be like pulling teeth at times, but if you keep asking usually an answer is forthcoming.

I have also gotten email responses to my questions that go unanswered here...like my question about the Zeenut George Johnson cards just the other day. And this is why you should never be afraid to ask a question because one of those George Johnson cards will be in my collection very shortly.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Thank you Leon--

Hopefully some will heed your advice on etiquette.

Jim

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Posted By: Joann

I agree with Dan, but maybe feel even more strongly about this. Telling someone to use the search function before asking is, to me, just about the worst response a first time poster can get. It's a complete public brush-off, and not very helpful besides. I find the search function difficult to use and that's when I'm looking for a thread I specifically remember. A first time poster isn't even going to maybe know the string to search. Heck, it may not even be obvious that there IS a search function.

Someone posted a response in a thread the other day about T206 back rarity, and actually posted the link to a previous thread. I thought that was a perfect response. It politely directed the person to a thread where he could get his answer, didn't imply that he was stupid or rude or whatever for having asked the question, didn't leave him to fend for himself with the search function, and didn't require a rehash of known material. How cool was that. Use the search function on behalf of the person and then direct him to the results.

But as to newbies ... they can help too. Undoubtedly some new or rare posters have more knowledge than board regulars. But more likely most of them do not, and might even have little or no knowledge.

Those with less knowledge shouldn't come on here and start splashing around being arrogant and confrontational. I don't know - maybe it's just how I was raised. You need to assimilate into a group by paying attention to the culture (and we do have one) before you start shooting off your mouth.

And own up to the fact that you aren't as knowledgeable. I have more knowledge about vintage cards than the average person on the street, but far less than the average person on this board. And I'm going to smart-mouth and be arrogant with people like Frank, Leon, tBob, Ryan, Jay B, Barry, Rob A, etc etc etc about their opinions and input on card issues? I don't think so. I think some newbies make it harder on others by being somewhat inappropriate in early posts. Then the blistering response scares off others.

So to you lurkers - ask away. I don't think questions are dumb, and usually you will get at least one expert that is happy to respond in seriousness.

Joann

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Posted By: Joe D.

but there isn't a better disfunctional family on the net.


very enjoyable, sometimes stomach turning, always informative -

and a very special thanks to Leon for all he does. This site would be un-visitable chaos without his efforts.

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Posted By: Andrew

...but 90% of you probably wouldn't know it as I post about every three months; maybe a Buy/Sell now and then. One reason for the minimal participation is that I'm a regular on four other boards (Hot Wheels collector too), so time allotted to hobbies is near maximum. The other is that my collecting pursuits are fairly evenly split between pre and post war, i.e., half of my card questions and need for dialogue are met elsewhere.

The few posters who seem to irk most on this board (including me to a slight extent) also have a wealth of knowledge that I've tapped. Sometimes I wish Leon would just ban them, end of story. However, the drama, attacks, egos, and debates actually seem to attract people here.

"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: barrysloate

You know, in about the same time it takes to tell a newbie to go do a search and find the answer to his question, you can probably answer it for him. It's a kind act, and it saves him time looking for something that in the end he may not be able to find. It also helps him feel a little more a part of a community. I have a background as a teacher, so I think part of the fun I have on the board is just that- teaching and sharing knowledge.

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Posted By: Mike

I was the one that asked about the rare 206 back yesterday. And directing me to the search function was perfect. It spoke volumes, and cut to the chase. 30 or 40 followup comments weren't necessary. Perfect. Saved a lot of time. But newbies may be unaware of the capability. But they will learn I guess. All I was trying to say was that politeness and kindness goes a long way. Isn't one of the goals, to retain as many knowledgable people as possible? And to tap into their brains? It stands to reason that if the tone in here were a bit more kind, to both the experts and the newbies, that more people would contribute? And after all isn't that what we all want? And yes, leon must have the patience of Job. Kudos to Leon.

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Posted By: John S

My personal favorite response types are of the variety "That is the most stupid thing I have ever read" often as a retort to someone that does not agree with a previously expressed opinion. I have had plenty of disagreements with individuals on this board but always try to preface my comments with something like "I respectfully disagree". The arguments that offer the best testimony regarding the intolerance for other's viewpoints often center around grading issues. There are no answers to many of the questions posed on this board due to their subjective nature.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Don't listen to Barry -- he is bizarrely kind and patient. He is not the norm either out here or in real life.

Now I've learned today that there are Seinfeld chat boards AND Hot Wheels chat boards???? If anyone knows of a chat board for my favorite 60s cartoon, Top Cat, please direct me to it.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jeff- I've even found a "Leave it to Beaver" chatroom, and I actually responded to a question on it. But when I looked at the date of the question, it was posted about a year and a half prior. Not a lot of traffic over there.

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Posted By: Dave

I've been lurking here for a while and just recently decided to post. I started collecting again about 3 years ago and have found this board to be a tremendous resource for pre-war material. I can't tell you how much I've learned from just reading here. If someone went through all the posts here and compiled the knowledge given... it would be a virtual encyclopedia on vintage cards.

At the same time, this board is intimidating. Some of the attacks here are a real turn off to people that have interest in a hobby. There was one young kid (who obviously didn't know ANYTHING about pre-war, or even modern for that matter) that got absolutely shredded a couple months ago. I just kept thinking about how he must have felt. Here's a child that's showing interest in something we all enjoy... someone that could be turned into a lifelong collector. Instead he's ripped apart and chased from the board. Who knows... maybe he's given up on collecting. Not all posters reacted that way to him, but some did.

In short, I decided to post because I felt like I'd learn more by participating. I feel like after reading here for a while you get to know who the right people are to talk with and who will chastise you. You gotta take the good with the bad in any situation. This board is no different.

The positives far outweigh the bad here. I want to thank Leon & Co. for providing a place for people to chat. More is discussed and learned here than any other place and time in the history of the hobby. There's something to be said for that.

Thanks to you all. And could someone please tell me what a complete near mint set of OJ's would cost? LOL. Just kiddin!

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Posted By: Jason L

internet behavior is always a little brave, but it is important to rein (spelling?) it in...

Joann, great comments.

The concept of fear holding back the lurkers from asking questions is interesting. If it is true, that is a shame. I think, however, there is more actual fear among those who do the bashing. It is the prototypical bully that behaves brutishly so as to hide his own shortcomings...behaving aggressively on this Board is an ill-chosen outlet for someone who is frustrated is some way, most likely by something going on in their own life...

For those who are lurking and think they afraid to post, think of it this way: knowledge gained here adds value to your collection...maybe not immediately, but eventually, for certain.

I am relatively new here, I post more than I should, and I don't add too much value (except to chime in on polls, etc), but I'm learning a ton, I love reading what everyone has to say, my want list has grown exponentially, and there are a few people I would like to meet someday, should I ever be fortunate enough to get back to a good old fashioned card show.

My point is...I dunno. great board, good people, limited ballyhoo.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I guess I don't understand what there is to be afraid of? This board is tame compared to most places on the net.

And Jason I always enjoy your posts...you are probably the funniest poster around here.

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Posted By: Jason L

I appreciate the very kind comments...

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

People should always be encouraged to ask questions without fear of being humiliated. I feel it takes more courage to admit you don't know than to pretend you do, and that anybody who will belittle you or look down upon you for asking a question is not a person whose respect is worth garnering.

As to questions which have already been answered in previous threads, I agree with previous posts that using the search function is not the easiest or most time effective thing to do, not to mention there might be some new lurkers/posters who are not familiar with it. A simple and polite response providing a link to or identification of the relevant previous thread should not be too much to expect.

edited for grammar

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Posted By: peter chao

Corey,

Your the voice of reason. In CA I deal with Civil Litigation attorneys on a daily basis, there's a saying on the West Coast, "there is nothing civil about a Civil Litigation Attorney." Unfortunately, it's true, but over time I learned how to deal with it.

When you first involved with an internet forum, you are faced with the same problem. There is a whole different set of rules and procedures, that a newbie has to learn. Let's be civil and courteous if possible. That way we will have more contributing members and more scans.

Peter

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Posted By: barrysloate

Peter- you're only a newbie for a short time, and then you become part of the community. There are a number of people, even on this thread, who are always qualifying their posts with "I know I haven't been here very long", as if that means whatever they have to say won't be taken seriously. I say for those who lurk but who are afraid to post, just dive into the cold water. Most on the board are polite and everybody's opinion, even a newbie's, will be taken seriously.

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Posted By: anthony

i'm a bit tired of reading the comments about card grades that the owner of the card cant control, for example.

"here's my (fill in card name) i just got back from psa/sgc/gai, it got a 6 and i'm pretty happy"

some responses

"that card is a 5 at best"
"psa must not of been paying attention"
"you lucked out, that card blows"

it's not like the owner has assigned the grade themselves, the grading company has...dont beat up the owner of the card

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Top Cat. The "Dead End Kid's" of the feline world. A favorite in my tender years, also.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054572/>

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Posted By: howard

The question you ask now may make you a fool for a moment. The question you never ask will surely make you a fool forever.

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Posted By: Andrew

"Quality questions create a quality life. Successful people ask better questions, and as a result, they get better answers." - A.R.

"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: Jim

I used to lurk here a while ago and had posted once or twice. Then my free time dwindled and I stopped posting, and then stopped visiting. I'm back now and very interested in participating. In the beginning, someone told me (and I dont care who it was) that my old avatar photo wasnt "vintage" enough. That's not the way to keep folks.

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Posted By: Joann

lolol Jim. My avatar is one of my kites. Guess that's not very vintage either (although someday it will be vintage ... in the kiting world). Glad you had thick enough skin to return, and you're right - that's not the way to make people feel welcome.

Joann